DSS when DD is having her nappy changed

[Namechangeof2021]

I've put this here rather than on any of the main boards as I don't want an onslaught of people saying I'm horrible or that I'm implying he has nefarious intentions. I'm really not so I hope it doesn't come across that way. It isn't an attack on him, just me looking out for my DD (and maybe some unintentional projection on my part as a CSA survivor) again, I'm not saying he's planning to do anything.

I have a 3 year old DD who isn't yet toilet trained. I have noticed that DSS who is about to start secondary school always makes a point of coming over and looking when I'm changing her. He isn't discrete about it so I don't think he's trying to hide the fact.

I've raised it with dad before who thinks it's innocent childhood curiosity which is normal among siblings, and it may well be, but it makes me uncomfortable.

The bathroom is too small and awkward to change her in so It's always the living room (when the older kids aren't in there - but they happen to come in to) or the bedroom, again which they come in to. Dad seems to forget I've raised these things and will happily change her in the same room that they are already in. He'll just walk right up and stand over her.

Would I be unreasonable to have a talk with him myself and ask that he respects DD's privacy when she needs to be changed?

@RockinHorseShit yes absolutely. I believe that with most cases it's due to either childhood sexual abuse themselves or early exposure to pornography. We need to be discussing the dangers of porn with our children much earlier.

Having said that, I've seen one or two cases with young boys who seem to have had a very happy upbringing, no evidence of exposure to pornography or abuse, yet become sexual predators at a very young age. The cunning of these boys at convincing their younger siblings to stay quiet is quite terrifying.

The NSPCC has a campaign and the rules may be useful to discuss with your DSS, including the rule of privacy.

www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/support-for-parents/pants-underwear-rule/

Sorry if I've missed it but while you're talking to your DSS about privacy and boundaries, please remember that it's not too early to start giving DD an understanding that she's entitled to privacy and start building her understanding of the pants rule. Let her know you will always listen if she's not sure about something or someone and their actions towards her and that she never has to keep secrets from you.

@littlemissgrumpi

I work in child protection. It's shocking to see how many naive parents there are on this thread.

Just last week I had a case regarding an 11 year old boy sexually assaulting both his younger sisters - this started as voyeurism at around aged 9. Kids this young have access to porn and it's not as rare as you think.

Protect your children.

The sexual abuse by my brother started when I was 9 and he was 11; some of my schoolfriends had exactly the same experience too. That was over 30 years ago.

Child on child abuse is terrifyingly common and not discussed often enough.

When there was a lock on the bedroom door, did he used to try to get in then?

I mean you should be able to say that you are just off to change your daughter's nappy & there is no need for anyone to follow you!

The same with taking her for a bath.

Has their dad not been about at these times to ask where he is going & why & to tell him no, there is no need to follow you & your daughter & watch whilst she is being bathed/changed?

I would feel uncomfortable with this. I would simply say when changing her to stay over there or can you just keep back whilst I'm changing her. Or ask him to leave the room when he's hovering. An 11 year old boy shouldn't be looking at his sisters private parts. Same reasons why they shouldn't be sharing a bedroom, I hope they have separate sleeping spaces.

Yes it is more common than I think anyone would want to believe. I understand why as of course nobody wants to believe their own child would do that to their other child - and with the ‘he’s just a little boy/natural curiosity’ being pushed on this very thread I can see how some parents must infantilise and minimise for their sons.

Sorry that was a response to @SurvivorSister but others posted in between! Very sad but I think more common than many people know/believe.

Potty train and make sure she always has privacy in the bathroom. I can't understand why you don't tell him firmly to go away.

My daughter's classmate was viewing far-right wing propaganda when he was primary school age. He did have unrestricted internet access and kicked off when this stopped.

A few years later and he's sprouting BS at secondary school, bullying minority groups with his gang of thugs, racist, sexist, homophobic etc. I'm not sure what his parents have been doing - they seem like nice people and appear appalled at his behaviour. His views are vile yet he rabidly defends them.

Some of the comments on here are making me feel a little uncomfortable if I'm honest.

OP, your family dynamics are not working. Your DSS has been doing this for over a year and you've waited to say something to him now? What was wrong with; 'I'm changing DD now, how about you go into another room and give her some privacy?' Instead you've stopped bathing her when your DSS is there allowed this to happen and are relying on your LL to replace door locks?! It seems like you're trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted - this should have been addressed immediately. Your DD needs privacy and your DSS needs to know acceptable behaviour because at the moment he has had no direction.

You've explained your DD has developmental issues. Does your DSS have any too because you say he is young for his age?

DS2 is 9.
They have just started the Aussie version of sex ed this week at school (it's called Inter-relate and goes into various aspects of family and then onto puberty, sex ed etc.)
Had his first class on Monday and when I picked him up from school he said that a couple of the boys in his class had looked ahead in the booklet, and found the picture of the "naked lady with boobies" and were giggling over it. They showed Ds2 as well, who was a bit embarrassed - but he said they kept looking at that page and grinning etc.
I know the family of one of the boys he mentioned, and I'd be amazed if there was any kind of abuse or dodginess in that family (although one never knows) - but I don't know anything about the other family.

I don't think there was anything wrong with them, exactly, I just think they're a bit young (at 9) to be ogling women's naked bodies. But maybe this is in normal range! not for either of mine, they're both very embarrassed by the idea still.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad that is totally normal and not a sign of abuse.

Sex education is vital and giggling, showing off and embarrassment are usual and can be signs of discomfort. Like children giggling at words like poo knowing it is a bit naughty. Discouragement and growing up normally stops that behaviour.

It's the continued interest of an 10-11 male in seeking access to view a real naked vulnerable female he lives with part-time which is really alarming.

Having said that, I've seen one or two cases with young boys who seem to have had a very happy upbringing, no evidence of exposure to pornography or abuse, yet become sexual predators at a very young age. The cunning of these boys at convincing their younger siblings to stay quiet is quite terrifying It is extremely, extremely unlikely to have come out of nowhere, or be latent. I find it slightly terrifying that you think it could be. A child with decent parenting and a happy upbringing without any negative exposure anywhere in their lives, without any attachment problems, is not going to be behaving as you say.

@PoshCoffeeOnly

Some of the comments on here are making me feel a little uncomfortable if I'm honest.

OP, your family dynamics are not working. Your DSS has been doing this for over a year and you've waited to say something to him now? What was wrong with; 'I'm changing DD now, how about you go into another room and give her some privacy?' Instead you've stopped bathing her when your DSS is there allowed this to happen and are relying on your LL to replace door locks?! It seems like you're trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted - this should have been addressed immediately. Your DD needs privacy and your DSS needs to know acceptable behaviour because at the moment he has had no direction.

You've explained your DD has developmental issues. Does your DSS have any too because you say he is young for his age?

It’s madness isn’t it? The op is more concerned about ‘accusing’ him for something rather than addressing the issue. Imagine having to stop bathing a toddler and seeking permission to put bolts on the doors to stop her much older brother perving at her. This kid needs more than a word, he needs professional help

I know @Babadook76 - this has been ignored and now the DSS is to blame for all of this when perhaps he has just needed boundaries/parenting...its as clear as mud and impossible to know.

It's not all fitting together for me, everything about this.

@Babadook76 the bolts thing is unfair. OP has already said the landlord had said no. If you live in a rented house you can't just change things in the house yourself.

@elephantsrunning I'm not going to dignify this with a proper response because you obviously do not have experience in this field. Again, nativity. Do you think all child/teenage killers have had abusive childhoods? No. Some things are innate. As much as you or I don't want to believe this, it's true.

@littlemissgrumpi - or no detailed response because your talking utter bolloxs?

Not having the literature to hand right this second, I went to the first available referenced article I could find. Yes! It's from the US, but don't let that deter you...

(My bold in the middle) -
"The U.S. attorney general’s National Task Force on Children Exposed to Violence found that “exposure to violence…affects approximately two out of every three of our children.”8 Additional research concluded, “90 percent of juvenile offenders in the United States [have experienced] some sort of traumatic event in childhood, and up to 30 percent of justice-involved American youth…meet the criteria for post-traumatic stress disorder due to trauma experienced during childhood.”9

@lborgia yes exactly... as I said in my first comment - most cases are due to childhood trauma and abuse. I stated that I've seen one or two that I believe are not. That fits with the article you've referenced.

@littlemissgrumpi

I’m honestly quite shocked you’re sharing details on an open forum of your cases, I know names haven’t been mentioned but I thought cases had to be strictly confidential, I have a friend who works in a similar field to you and she’s never mentioned anything about any cases she’s dealt with.

@@Namechangeof2021 what has your DH said when you had a chat with him?

[quote littlemissgrumpi]@elephantsrunning I'm not going to dignify this with a proper response because you obviously do not have experience in this field. Again, nativity. Do you think all child/teenage killers have had abusive childhoods? No. Some things are innate. As much as you or I don't want to believe this, it's true. [/quote]
It is up to you, but you are completely incorrect. Yes I do know what I am talking about. Also if you read what I wrote again, I didn't just refer to abuse.

Also, OP, the younger a child is, the more chance there is that interventions will be effective. Eleven is still pretty young in terms of brain development.