DSS when DD is having her nappy changed

[Namechangeof2021]

I've put this here rather than on any of the main boards as I don't want an onslaught of people saying I'm horrible or that I'm implying he has nefarious intentions. I'm really not so I hope it doesn't come across that way. It isn't an attack on him, just me looking out for my DD (and maybe some unintentional projection on my part as a CSA survivor) again, I'm not saying he's planning to do anything.

I have a 3 year old DD who isn't yet toilet trained. I have noticed that DSS who is about to start secondary school always makes a point of coming over and looking when I'm changing her. He isn't discrete about it so I don't think he's trying to hide the fact.

I've raised it with dad before who thinks it's innocent childhood curiosity which is normal among siblings, and it may well be, but it makes me uncomfortable.

The bathroom is too small and awkward to change her in so It's always the living room (when the older kids aren't in there - but they happen to come in to) or the bedroom, again which they come in to. Dad seems to forget I've raised these things and will happily change her in the same room that they are already in. He'll just walk right up and stand over her.

Would I be unreasonable to have a talk with him myself and ask that he respects DD's privacy when she needs to be changed?

I'm finding the family dynamic odd. Why would anyone apart from your husband be coming into your bedroom without knocking. Even a 3 year old might need to wait before barging in.

The DD using nappies is completely irrelevant. The PPs saying the problem would be solved by potty training, or changing her in a separate room, or getting a lock for the door are completely missing the point. The OP, while understandably unwilling to say so directly, has concerns that the DSS has a sexually unhealthy interest in DD, even if he is unaware of it himself. If that is the case, his interest would not suddenly disappear by taking the above mentioned precautions. It is that interest in itself that must be dealt with, not the occasions where a three year old would be in a state of undress.

I worked in the police for many years, and one thing I took away from that hideous career was just how shockingly rife sexual abuse is between half siblings. It was staggering. Later, when I had my DD, I made sure I always kept that in mind when my DSS came to stay. He is five years older than her. He has NEVER shown a single sign of any inappropriate thoughts, he’s a lovely chap. But I never let them play in a room with a closed door. After discovering the almost routine cases of abuse, I feel unable to assume nothing could ever go wrong.

OP, I think you sound like a lovely mum, and I think you are right to trust your gut instinct with this one.

I have 3 children and all potty trained at different times - my middle son wasn't until he was 3 so you are not a crap parent there are just some very judgy totally missing the point comments on here! As per usual to be honest! You are right to be concerned and should raise it with him - how he reacts will tell you whether your concern is warranted or not!

Keep telling him to go away. You are your DD's protector here. Get increasingly angry about it if you need to and yes tell him its outright creepy if he doesn't stop.

I work in child protection. It's shocking to see how many naive parents there are on this thread.

Just last week I had a case regarding an 11 year old boy sexually assaulting both his younger sisters - this started as voyeurism at around aged 9. Kids this young have access to porn and it's not as rare as you think.

Protect your children.

It is odd to be stood watching. But I’d hate for anyone to think my sons were being weird, they help look after their younger cousins all the time and change nappies along with other male members of the family. Everyone helps here we’ve never told them they can’t change nappies or that male family members can’t.

@BooksAndHooks

It is odd to be stood watching. But I’d hate for anyone to think my sons were being weird, they help look after their younger cousins all the time and change nappies along with other male members of the family. Everyone helps here we’ve never told them they can’t change nappies or that male family members can’t.

Don't know why there's no need for kids to get involved with changing nappies. Just leave it to the parents.

What in the world is going on? Why can't a stepparent say "SS you are being inappropriate right now and invading your sister's privacy-go away, leave the room and I don't want to have to tell you twice" After you are done pull him to the side and ask him to explain what and why he was behaving that way. YOU need to address this in the moment if your husband won't. If you don't feel comfortable enough to do this then there's a lot more going on in your family. Christ on a cracker

@littlemissgrumpi

I work in child protection. It's shocking to see how many naive parents there are on this thread.

Just last week I had a case regarding an 11 year old boy sexually assaulting both his younger sisters - this started as voyeurism at around aged 9. Kids this young have access to porn and it's not as rare as you think.

Protect your children.

Jesus @littlemissgrumpi that's so sad, those poor girls. It must be so hard to do a job like yours when you coming up against things like this.

What tends to happen in the aftermath with cases like these? Do the siblings have to live apart? Parents split up and have to ensure they're not ever together? Do the police get involved?

Sorry for all the questions, it's just really good having a professionals take that's all

@EKGEMS

What in the world is going on? Why can't a stepparent say "SS you are being inappropriate right now and invading your sister's privacy-go away, leave the room and I don't want to have to tell you twice" After you are done pull him to the side and ask him to explain what and why he was behaving that way. YOU need to address this in the moment if your husband won't. If you don't feel comfortable enough to do this then there's a lot more going on in your family. Christ on a cracker

I don't understand where you've got that from, about me not feeling able to address it? I said on page 2 in one of my early replies that I intend to address it with him today.

I have raised it with dad before who got on board with me and agreed to enforce her privacy but that slipped so I'm handling it myself.

@Namechangeof2021 in this case the police are involved due to what was found on his phone... which I won't go into but I'm sure you can imagine. He's likely to be referred to a youth offender programme and separated from the girls.

I hope you're ok - well done for taking the steps to protect your daughter. ❤️

My apologies @Namechangeof2021 but it sounded like there was a great deal of angst being direct with him

I agree some parents are scarily naive. A 10 or 11-year-old is not a baby. Children of this age do sexually abuse younger children. Of course, they need help as well. But you don't tackle situations like this by burying your head in the sand.

OP - if your h and you don't already do this, it's time to start knocking before you enter their rooms too. They need this modelled so that they know to expect this level of privacy from others eg on sleepovers. A child who doesn't know this risks someone taking advantage of that.

@ChoiceMummy

The op specifically says he isn’t a teen but ‘isn’t far off.’ He’s certainly not a little child. But you continue somehow pushing the blame onto a mum and excusing the inappropriate behaviour of a boy.

As if potty training the girl is the answer instead of telling the boy to change his behaviour. ‘You don’t want John to look at your privates? Well you need to use the toilet and not bathe when he’s here and hide them at all times!’

@PlntLady

Are you sure he isnt coming over to help occupy her whilst you change her, rather than to have a look? If not I suspect it curiosity. Has someone ever had the chat with him about male & female anatomy and how it differs? If he is on the cusp of being a teenager, perhaps it might be a good time for this. You can get some helpful books for kids on this topic nowadays. It might be good to get him one to redirected his curiosity and so he can look through it in his own time. I had a friend with a boy & a girl, 9 months apart. She got them these books around 10 years old and she said they were great.

Again, would you really sit a boy of 10-12 down and say ‘now you have a willy because you’re a boy! Girls don’t have a willy.’

Come on. My 6 year old knows her brothers and daddy have a penis and she, her sister, and I have a vagina. If I say my 11 year old down and told him with a lovely book about male and female anatomy he’d think I’d gone mad.

@Kanaloa I agree. Some posters are talking as if he was 4 years old.

I also think there are two parts to this.
Protecting the DD.
And getting help and reinforcing correct behaviour for DS. I know OP as a step-parent you may not be able to do what is really needed here.

[quote alltheapples]@Kanaloa I agree. Some posters are talking as if he was 4 years old.[/quote]
I know! I was thinking either I was the worst mum in the world to my older kids or people here had misread ‘not far off a teen’ as ‘just a baby.’

One poster even called him a ‘little child’ totally infantilising.

I do agree @Kanaloa.

I have three and six year old girls. My DH who has been a nude sleeper since I've known him has started wearing boxers to bed because even at that young age it's a bit inappropriate for him to be wandering around in the mornings with everything flapping about in front of them.

We're not a terribly prudish family, I change in front of my girls, they know men and women have different bits. DH wouldn't go mad if they walked in if he was in the shower but he would remind them to knock and wait to be told to come in, as would I. But by preschool/early primary it's appropriate for them to learn that private parts are private and I'd certainly expect an 10/11 year old to be well aware of that!

@Kanaloa Totally agree. You can tell who doesn't have a 10 year old.
"Boys have a Willy, girls have a vulva" talk is for pre-schoolers. OP has said that dss has a baby sibling at home so he knows what a vulva looks like.
Books aimed at 10 year olds will be about puberty and sex.
They teach 3/4 year olds the basic rule that if someone is in a toilet cubicle then you leave them alone until they come out. The nappy change is just like that very basic rule.
Treating a 10 year old like a 3 year old is not good for the child as well any child who comes into contact with them.

Come on. My 6 year old knows her brothers and daddy have a penis and she, her sister, and I have a vagina. If I say my 11 year old down and told him with a lovely book about male and female anatomy he’d think I’d gone mad

Yes quite the same here I would think. He'll think we're being very strange indeed as he's well aware males and females have different parts.

@littlemissgrumpi

I work in child protection. It's shocking to see how many naive parents there are on this thread.

Just last week I had a case regarding an 11 year old boy sexually assaulting both his younger sisters - this started as voyeurism at around aged 9. Kids this young have access to porn and it's not as rare as you think.

Protect your children.

Including 11 year olds, presumably, as behaving like that means their needs have not been met, putting it mildly.

OP follow your intuition re your 3 year old, but it also sounds as though your 11 year old DSS' needs are not being met. Unsupervised screen time not a good idea, but also sexual exploitation of children is widespread on the dark web, your DSS could be influenced by this if someone has exposed him to it, he will be too young to make sense of it, or he may have been abused himself, or have other needs not yet known about

@littlemissgrumpi

Can I ask &feel free to ignore if it's a difficult question

Would you say that if the boys who have early unfetter access to internet porn, or are damaged in other ways due to early exposure to inappropriate material/actions are not identified, not accepted as of a responsible age & helped early, that they can go on to have such a warped sexual view as older teens & young adults that they continue with sexual assault & even rape.

I ask as that is definitely my personal experience a few times over, it's really sad because some I've known since they were 4/5 & they were such sweet kids. I've had comments deleted up thread for saying similar, but my personal experience is that mothers of boys that don't recognise that they grow up & experiment early & are quite adept at accessing internet porn at a scarily young age... christ I was really shocked by what me DD had been shared to a group of 9/10 year olds🥴, that they miss opportunities to help their own boys develop more heathy attitudes to women, sex & relationships?

Sorry, gobbledygook... I was shocked by what DD showed me had been shared to a chat group