If you could start again what would you do differently?

[SnowWhitesSM]

Hi it's me again

Brief overview - I have two teens FT and h has his ds 8. He moved out a month or so ago. When we got married dh came down with a huge case of the nrp dad guilt which infected our marriage and caused lots of problems. I became very resentful of his parenting and his son. Hs parenting is pretty normal apart from he gives the decision making power to his son. I believed for ages that I was a monster and it was my fault but actually his processes are wrong. I desperately wanted us to be a team and for us to be a family but at the time hs guilt and anxiety couldn't allow this. I had never been as miserable as what I was when we were living together and his son was around. I cannot do that to myself again.

So h is desperate that we don't split up. He's starting a CBT group for his anxiety and wants us to go back to counselling. I really want my marriage to work. I want to include his son and I want us both to be a team around all the dc. I want the flipping Waltons ffs.

So we're going to go to marriage counselling and get back to basics. We're going to have a year apart to work on ourselves. He is not to blame for everything that went wrong but he's the root of it. I'm not saying that to shift blame as I am responsible for my own words and actions when feeling hurt/rejected ect but it all stems from his dad guilt and giving decision making power to his son.

What do I need from him to be happy being a step parent? What works for you? How do I explain how to be a team with him?

Bumping as I really could do with some solid advice please

It’s hard to start again because you have all the baggage and experience.

My first suggestion would be that you must use a counselling service that specialises in stepfamilies. A counsellor who doesn’t understand the complex dynamics will do much more harm than good.

I’d also suggest that he needs individual counselling about his divorced dad guilt. He needs to acknowledge the problem and address it or you’ll never have any chance of working as a team. He’ll always end up going back on anything you’ve agreed and scapegoating you because he’s doing whatever makes him feel least guilty. You know that is always at your expense.

General CBT for anxiety will help him a bit. But he needs far more than this.

Yes he will go back on agreements at my expense if his dad guilt comes into play.

Him having individual counselling around this is a must and top of the list. I think that needs to happen before marriage counselling really.

Snow, you were so unhappy in your posts, that I guess the people who read them are reluctant to send you back to that place. If he is serious, he will need a LOT of help with the guilt and probably fear of losing his son.

It is almost like he needs a relationship expert on tap - personal coach. We come here and get some of that from each other - is there a similar place for men?

I know I was. I do not and will not go back to that place again. I do want it to work though, he's who I want to be with when hid dad guilt isn't about.

Hi snow ok so I know the backstory. I hope your doing on

I would advise you a couple of things,
him some therapy and actually also you. Both done separately. And a joint councillor together after you both have had your own when your in a better headspace.

The first test will be if he follows through on regularly attending it. Also you need to get to the roots cause of why you put up with so much awful stuff, this isn't to blame you in anyway. It's to get to the root of it to change it or at least see the dynamics so you can spot it in action. It will be painful because you may see those behaviours come into play in other relationships in your world outside of DH.

You need a direct therapist for you, one that will say things kindly but also focus on you. You haven't had anyone focus on you for a long while I can gather, and actually I suspect your self worth is on the floor, that's why you accepted DH bad behaviour, and why it feels good to be away from him in some aspects.

You can consider not living together but being together that's a option that seems to have worked well for some, others have done different parenting days with kids so they don't merge one effecting the other.

But if I had to impress one bit of advice it's therapy for you. Try reading try "why does he do this" (book or audiobook versions ), carve out some time for something specific to you, something fun, something you couldn't have done with DH.

Thanks @candlelightsatdawn I have got my own counselling starting in January. You are right, I've put up with some absolutely shocking behaviour.

I do feel he's remorseful but if I'm honest he still isn't taking full accountability for his actions and attitude towards me when it comes to step parenting.

I have read Bancroft and he doesn't fit into any of the list of abusers but does tick off abusive traits on the list. I don't believe he's been abusive to me on purpose, I think being with me has uncovered his childhood traumas and brought them out into the light. His protective mechanisms that he's learnt as a child aren't helpful and he's very ashamed of the behaviours towards me.

I feel like I've found my self respect and happiness again. My friends and family are wonderful and I've gone up whilst he's gone very down and I feel very bad about that. He's very depressed and not coping well without me. I just want to make it all better for him he is a really lovely man on the inside.

He shouted at me again yesterday and the day before because I put up a photo of my Xmas tree on fb and said me and the kids are ready for Xmas. His reaction to being hurt is to hurt me (emotionally). I shouted back at him yesterday afternoon and then by the evening he had apologised and was disgusted with himself. I really don't believe he does this on purpose, he goes into fight mode in is defence mechanism.

@SnowWhitesSM I think @candlelightsatdawn has given you some excellent advice.
I personally would be very wary of someone who says he wants a relationship to work but who slips so easily back into treating you like muck - because this sounds behavioural to me; something which is triggered by nr dad guilt but is actually a deeper, older behavioural pattern. In other words the nr dad guilt is a symptom of his behaviour but not the cause.

Is this the man that hugs his son for 30 minutes in the morning and evening ?

Yes @Redshoeblueshoe thats the one 🙄

@Magda72 I really do love him, it's not a trauma bond love as I don't feel scared of him abandoning me or life without him. I'm not desperately clinging on, I'm living my life again. But I do miss him and miss us. I miss all the lovely times we had together and I really miss falling asleep with him every night and waking up with him in the morning. I don't want to not be with him, he makes me so happy when he's not in his feelings about something.

What do your own children feel about this ??

My son really misses him. He's been quite upset about it all. My dd (almost 16) feels happier that I'm happier and doesn't want me to be unhappy again. She likes h but likes me being happy more.

And his son really misses being part of a family with us and my children. He absolutely adored my son and looked up to him. He doesn't want it to be just him and his dad again.

I feel like I've torn my family apart for my own happiness

But then I think - no, no one should put up with what I was putting up with and life is too short to be miserable.

Your happiness is just as important as everyone else’s. You putting up with shitty treatment so that he and his DS are happy is bullshit.

FWIW I just ended a relationship like this - we’d never moved in together but even on the nights we did spend together his dad guilt was a bit of a cloud over everything. He had his DCs more than 50% (will be 100% now we’ve split up!) but even so he felt guilty that they weren’t with him all the time so overcompensated in every way. It’s a tough thing to live with and I’ll be honest I’m relieved to be out of the circus.

If you really want it to work he’s going to have to do a lot of work on himself, but you’re also going to have to have strong boundaries - and stick to them. Knowing that you can be happy without him and that it’s a CHOICE you’re making to be with him will help.

Snow I say this so so gently. You didn't cause this or tear your family apart, your DH did this through repeatedly and utterly ignoring all your pleas to change in a significant way.

I get the feeling your the fixer in the family right ? The person who puts everyone's emotions ahead of her own ? That personality type will always be so bad at self care and I say this as someone who is known in the family is little miss fix it.

It took many years of therapy to see that putting myself first on occasion and looking after myself ina meaningful way didn't mean I was selfish. My therapist said these behaviours within me where there in childhood and I had to start taking care of myself not just for me but to enable me to look after others more effectively.

I basically hissed at him, fought him on the word self care (I hate it even to this day) and struggled with the task he set for me of doing something one thing nice for myself a day. Just for me, felt like having a tooth extraction. I still struggle with boundaries and trying to keep everyone happy and myself but you know it's like a muscle, exercise it and it gets easier.

Have you thought maybe your DH maybe can't be fixed, what if he just can't get there for whatever reason. Plan for the worse and hope beyond hope he reforms but don't set your happiness on someone who yells at you for posting a photo on SM.

It's hard when you have SC and you genuinely care about their feelings but remember this. Their dad could have fixed this, he chose not to and your showing his DS that this behaviour isn't right and hopefully the son won't follow in DH foot steps.

Don't think I don't sympathies with DH. Mental health is a cow bag, but a sick person has to want to get better.

Also a depressed person maybe depressed but that doesn't mean all of them act like assholes on top of it. Separate the behaviour and the depression in your head. It's easy to say ah well he's depressed that's why he does xyz but I promise you I have been depressed before and never would I use that as a excuse to harm someone I love.

Sending you a massive cuddle.

You can do this. Promise you you can do this ! Xxx

Also saying sorry and being sorry are one thing. Changing and making permanent change are often so separate because it's easy to say sorry.

It's so hard to bloody change and many do want to change but aren't capable. Sadly.

My ex was the same. He was sorry he cheated on me after the loss of our baby, so depressed so so sorry. But I couldn't forgive him. He swore down he wouldn't ever cheat again and said he knew how much harm he caused.

He has a new partner and has already cheated on her. I could lamp him, I really like the women. Honestly. He knows it's wrong and causes harm but does it anyway.

His behaviours are nothing you can solve but I know if you could you would. And that is enough. You are enough.

So h never had dad guilt when his son wasn't around. He never felt guilty for going away/swapping nights so we could go away/money spent on us/doing things with just my dc- like going to the cinema for a 12 or a 15+. He was shit at considering me during school holidays ect but was getting better.

My issue was when his son was here. Omg it was draining. Then it was like the king was home and I have lost so much respect for h because of the way he allowed his son to dictate. Then hs guilt and fear of his son not wanting to see him would come into full force. I don't mean that h never did anything with me when dss was over, but his anxiety around it after was mental.

He promises that he is going to get to the bottom of his demons in this year apart. I have been very clear that I will not be back with him let alone live with him again until his issues around this are solved. I cannot be miserable again. I will not be miserable again.

I used to struggle a lot more with doing things for myself then what I do now. Now I will buy myself new clothes or something I like just because I like it. I do things that make me feel good, I have baths, I have two personal training sessions a week, I see my friends. I do a lot more for myself then what I did when I was younger. I have had so much counselling and really rebuilt my inner child into my adult self. I know when I'm in my feelings and can self soothe. I can see my reactions and when they're being reasonable or unreasonable. I consciously fill my cup up. I have a lovely home, I have a lovely relationship with my own dc and I can consciously parent and enjoy them. I'm back at work now and loving my secondment, I'm really good at my job! I don't have low self esteem, I can look in the mirror and think I look good, I like other people and see the world as a kind place.

I am a nurturer and like helping people. I looked after my friends son today as I was off work, I took him to a NT place ect and do other things to help my friends and family. I loved looking after my husband when he was looking after me back. What has drained me is that I've poured so much for long that even though I'm filling my cup back up now, it was completely drained as he wasn't putting back what I put in him.

I am going back to counselling because I agree there's something still awry with me accepting the behaviour from h for so long - and even accepting it now. A more emotionally healthy person would see his shit and run a mile, I see his hurt inner child and keep thinking that if he can just sort his shit we'll be alright. So I will explore that in counselling in January. I actually feel a bit like a Foster carer with traumatised children when he's putting his shit on me. It's not good or a healthy place for me to be.

But honestly the rest of my relationship with him is perfect for me. We have so much fun, we think the same, he feels like my home. I don't want to give up on him.

Snow sounds very much like DH has some demons he really has to tackle. You can't fill your own cup if DH keeps randomly poking a hole in the bottom of your draining it. It must make you feel on edge waiting for shoe to drop.

I wonder if it's about of sight out of mind problem. He puts DSC in a box and mentally takes it out again when he's here. But the box is more like Pandora's box than a nice Christmas box ?

It's clear you love him, it's also clear you have been running a marathon for a long time and that has effected the level of what you would accept vs what you accept with DH because you see his pain. Your levels may not have fully returned to the level of what they should be. Even if you feel your tank is much fuller so to speak.

Like having a glass of water when out in the desert and thinking omg I feel so much better but actually you maybe v dehydrated. I really do hope you get the outcome that makes you happy. You deserve to be happy.

I hope your DH can do this for you. But I want you to know if he can't, it is definitely not your fault, and it maybe just also not his fault. Sometimes even the most perfect fit missing that last 0.00001% cm make a situation not fit. I'm not saying this to be unkind, I'm saying it as someone who has had to walk away from a similar situation and it broke me.

Re practical advice look towards the future, just you for the moment what does it look like, what dreams have you got, what adventures do you want to take.

The gift of fear is a good book. I recommend it for some of the work I do with a NFP. It's about listening to your instincts the ones you silence and the reason why you silence them, various chapters that won't apply to you but interesting never the less.

Just a gentle suggestion to say any perm decisions, you take try not to do it over festive period. The festivities tend to be very much geared towards families and togetherness, but what isn't advertised is the fact there's a higher rate of GBH in families. My best friend is a nurse and she says the amount of people coming in with knife, fork wounds over Christmas by family is alarmingly high.

Be kind to yourself please.

Snow, we have an ongoing situation with DH's eldest and it is like an open sore. I couldn't handle DH's pain, it was just on and on and on. Now he sees a therapist every week, and he can take it there, and it's water off a duck's back to the therapist as he's not involved. It doesn't deal with it all, but the load is shared and we are both coping much better. Can't see the situation going away, so we both need to learn acceptance and slowly, slowly it's happening.

Thank you both sorry if I sound like a broken record or completely just caught up with my own shit.

Candle I will definitely give that book a go! I am already planning things I want to do for myself in my future. I'm planning on filling it with happiness. I am making myself a busy happy life that isn't centred on h and his issues.

Spaceship, maybe I do need to learn a bit more acceptance but I can't do that until h has my back. I'm glad you and your dh have found something that works. I hope his counselling continues.

I don't know the back story but is there a way you can be in a relationship and not live together?

You've said it on this thread your DH still doesn't accept responsibility or want to be accountable for his actions.

That's his first step.

Until then how can you move on together?