If you could start again what would you do differently?

[SnowWhitesSM]

Hi it's me again

Brief overview - I have two teens FT and h has his ds 8. He moved out a month or so ago. When we got married dh came down with a huge case of the nrp dad guilt which infected our marriage and caused lots of problems. I became very resentful of his parenting and his son. Hs parenting is pretty normal apart from he gives the decision making power to his son. I believed for ages that I was a monster and it was my fault but actually his processes are wrong. I desperately wanted us to be a team and for us to be a family but at the time hs guilt and anxiety couldn't allow this. I had never been as miserable as what I was when we were living together and his son was around. I cannot do that to myself again.

So h is desperate that we don't split up. He's starting a CBT group for his anxiety and wants us to go back to counselling. I really want my marriage to work. I want to include his son and I want us both to be a team around all the dc. I want the flipping Waltons ffs.

So we're going to go to marriage counselling and get back to basics. We're going to have a year apart to work on ourselves. He is not to blame for everything that went wrong but he's the root of it. I'm not saying that to shift blame as I am responsible for my own words and actions when feeling hurt/rejected ect but it all stems from his dad guilt and giving decision making power to his son.

What do I need from him to be happy being a step parent? What works for you? How do I explain how to be a team with him?

@RandomMess simply because the cycle of abuse is actually such a strong one !

It can seem blatant to others the abuse, but I can promise you I have had CEOs walk though our doors, smart, strong clever women, and they also consider staying. One of my most memorable clients was a CEO who's husband attacked her hands with a iron, blaming her for working to much. And she believed it.

It's easy to say from outside - I wouldn't ever put up with this.

But that mentality is so damaging because it keeps them in shame spiral.

I think i will be having the same counsellor as before. She's told me his behaviour is abusive, his thought patterns and processes are wrong and his view on women is misogynistic. She's also good at calling me out on my own shit and helping me make plans with other stressors in my life. When we went to joint counselling she was the one who recommended a male counsellor so that h would take note and one who is good at spotting misogyny. We only had two sessions as h believed other things were more important financially and he wanted to pick the counselling back up after Christmas. We obviously didn't make it till Christmas.

I know @RandomMess this is going to sound unbelievable but I could give you paragraphs and paragraphs of how lovely he is to me as well. He is very thoughtful about a lot of things, he goes 50/50 on housework, sometimes more when I'm busy with work, he reads books to me, we have really fun adventures, he likes doing active things so we go for lots of bike rides and walks, he buys me thoughtful presents, he takes care of me, he helps my nan on occasion (her garden got really overgrown so he found someone and paid them to sort it out for her), he makes me a coffee every weekday morning. Honestly there's so many lovely things.

But I recognise that the things he does are on his terms. He doesn't do things he doesn't want to do. He likes having more money than me so he can treat me rather than to share finances. There's only a couple of hundred quid difference in what we earn and some months I take home more than him, it wasn't about money spent, it was about his control.
Films, he might sometimes think we'll watch a girlie film for me, but he would choose a girlie film that he liked. So he might say, I've noticed you're complaining that we only watch my films, let's watch roadhouse. Getting him to watch a film that I wanted to watch was quite hard! In the beginning he loved my taste in music and films. Now my taste isn't up to scratch - yet his music library has assimilated a lot of songs i put him on to..

Cooking and cleaning - well he's an adult and we both have similar views on a tidy home. He doesn't like mess anymore than I do.

He likes buying me presents and taking me out to eat. When I'm happy he's happy and it's an easy way to buy happiness. But its not a lasting happiness that comes from communication and relationship work. I know that sounds ungrateful but I noticed I always got presents a few days after arguments. Even now he's trying to buy me by talking about getting a camper van in the summer as he knows I really want one.

It's like all the components are there for us to have a great life together until his control and anxiety blow up. It's so frustrating. I really do have a lovely happy life with him when he's not being a dick!

One thing that really annoys me is that I love going raving. I don't care that I'm in my 30s I bloody love jungle/D&B and I especially love festivals (although I only like a day ticket as I hate not having showers and a morning poo, tmi). He knew this from the start.

I know that I'm an adult, with dc, in a responsible job. I don't do coke, I don't put myself in dangerous positions like I did in my teens and twenties when I did do a fair amount of drugs and end up in random peoples kitchens at 7am the next day. But I do like to let my hair down and feel like a teenager again (minus the coke) a couple of times a year. I love dancing! I really really really love dancing all day and night. H doesn't dance, he doesn't drink, he doesn't let his hair down and enjoy himself. If he is invited out with his mates I had to persuade him to go and enjoy himself. He really critiques this part of me in arguments. He says things like - well go back to your ex you were obviously happier with someone who liked raving, go act like a teenager, you're so childish anyway. This really hurts me! I feel like he's attacking part of who I am! He apologises for it after, but I don't understand why this threatens him. He thought I was hilarious when we first met and would go out with my younger cousin and his mates. He loved that part of my energy. Now he attacks it.

Unfortunately no matter what the trigger is for the abuse (many abusive people have been abused and that wasn't their fault) , no matter how lovely they are in the good times. It always boils down to control and if he's willing to give it up.

Doesn't matter how high the highs are if the lows may kill you mentally.

I'm sending you a massive hug right now and I want you to go to a NY rave (Covid allowing) and dance your heart out

Op, you both may be very good people just not compatible people. It sounds as though he tries to over compensate for the lack of true compatibility by gift and gesture giving, but when pushed to his limit his truth comes out in a verbal barrage.. Given what you say,he probably cares for you but views your behavior to be at times immature. He probably thinks that you should have moved on from some of the behaviors that he associates and thinks of as teenage behaviors.

You have an absolute right to be you. He has an absolute right to his opinions about your behavior. The real issue is that the 2 of you may be incapable of reconciling those differences. That does not make either of you wrong; it may just be another indicator of the incompatibility.

Snow I can relate to so much of what you’re saying. I reread your old thread last night and it could have been me. You’re doing so well keeping your boundaries and working out what you need.

I’ve recently split with my DP and it hurts like hell, but I know that despite all the wonderful things he says and does, at the root of it all is a superiority and grandiosity that comes out in arguments and shows me what he really thinks of me/women in general.

It’s so hard to let something go when you can see how “easy” it would be to fix it, but he has to see that too and he’s so far down the rabbit hole of feeling hard done by that he can’t or won’t see his part in your issues, same as my ex.

I actually feel sorry for my ex because he’s missed out on a lovely life with me and him at the centre of our families, but he’s chosen to put his younger DD on a spousal pedestal instead. The DCs call all the shots, right down to him considering giving one of them the master bedroom with en-suite at their new house because they couldn’t agree on bedrooms. The kids insist they need king size beds even though he’s in a small double It has sapped all my respect for him, seeing him pandering to their whims - often to the detriment of our relationship.

I hope things work out for you one way or another next year. I’m taking it as an opportunity to reevaluate everything, job, house etc as well as what I want from my future. I put so much mental energy into out relationship while he just swans along thinking it’s all hunkydory while I’m crying into my pillow with frustration that my life ended up life this. . Don’t be me!

My cousins already got my ticket Candle I usually hate going out in winter and especially nye but I'm going this year and I'm so excited!

Maybe it is genuine incompatibility @Tattler2 I have said this to him before. Are we just trying to push a square peg down a round hole and the outcome is the verbal assault. I was able to accept this and took steps to move on but he won't let it go. He doesn't agree with that.

OP, sad for him, he probably loves the person that he thinks that you could be if you would just make the changes that he thinks that you could/should make. If he cannot love and accept the person that you are, and you cannot accept the person that he is, then there is not much hope for a mutually satisfying ending.

Well if buying gifts, reading out a book and bringing a cuppa in bed were that were needed to be a good parent and partner you would be with a winner.

They are all grandiose things aren't they, that he can show off about how wonderful he is

Doing his share of the housework is just the normal, no one should put up with less!

He doesn't do any parenting at all though does he? Is a dictator to yours and wants to be best friends with his anything for an easy ride.

I think it's deep misogyny he thinks you should be a certain kind of woman and he is adamant you should change to fulfil what he wants.

You know what @RandomMess I think you've hit the nail on the head with that. I actually don't know what makes a good partner. I see things like attention, gifts, coffees, dates as hallmarks of a good partnership even though I know what I want is teamwork and a partner who sees us as an us. I don't really know how else to articulate what I mean about teamwork but I feel like what you say really resonates.

@GregTheEgg I'm glad you're out! H also has that superiority complex of thinking he's better than everyone else. It's draining.

Well my DH is rather crap at romantic gestures, didn't propose, no flowers when I gave birth x 3, shit at presents.

But we are a good team 99% of the time. After 20 years he has got better at thoughtful gifts (there were a few rows over that) and I finally often get a cuppa in bed.

He is stepdad to my eldest and has always treated them equally even though her Dad is very involved.

Neither of us perfect but if his behaviour was unreasonable he changed it if it wasn't he stood his ground.

Neither of us is in charge.

@Tattler2, there is a whole backstory and he has been very wrong. Even a counsellor has said his behaviour is abusive. If the only issue was Op wanting to dance I suspect it would have been easily resolved.

@Fireflygal
I don't know the back story. I know from my experience that for us to think of ourselves as a team we had to both agree that our kids would always be dealt with in a kind and concerned manner. Our values and goals for our children were very similar, but we also agreed to respect our right to parent our respective children as we each saw fit with no interference our judgment from the other.

That actually has been surprisingly easy because we each recognize that there is no one right or wrong way to parent and that many different ways ultimately lead to the same or similar outcomes.

Once you truly accept the fact that your way is the right way for you, but that it is neither the only way or perhaps even the best way, it becomes easier to be less judgmental about your partner's way.

There is a liberating feeling in knowing that my partner can love and live with me as I am and that I can do the same for him. The cost of this liberation for each of us is the acceptance of the fact that there are aspects of each other's life in which we have no say. We can have an opinion but absolutely no say.

Sometimes I would agree with that @Tattler2 but the way he parents impacts on my happiness. I understand that I can't change him, I'm more than happy to live on my own or find someone with similar parenting styles and values to me rather than insist on change. I can't do the detached style that you advocate for, I've tried but disengaging doesn't work for me. His parenting didn't work for him either, he was almost in tears a week or so ago about how he's damaged his son and caused him to be a very anxious and unhappy boy. If it were differences about things that didn't affect me or his child then I'd be fully with you, but they do. It's not just me who sees this. His mum and his sister say the same thing. His mum has been so upset on the phone to me about how her grandson is being parented. They aren't differences about screen time or how often to shower.

@Tattler2 I don’t know your backstory. And I don’t know who your DH is or what his behaviours are.

What I will say is this. To you and other posters. please stop normalising / talking about inane things such as incompatibility when there is so much more at play here.

This isn’t about two people being ‘incompatible’. And this is where people who have no personal or professional experience of abuse are so out of their depth, and can often give advice that is more harmful than good.

I can tell you now, as someone who has been on the receiving end of this a specimen like this man, that this behaviour is not about incompatibility. Compatibility suggests compromise, communication and people working together. And then mutually agreeing, this isn’t working. That’s how healthy people with healthy mechanisms operate. That’s you. That’s me. That’s your DH. A load of us on here.

This is the truth. This is not how everyone operates in this world. For some people, Control is the ultimate weapon. Not compatibility or compromise. The very thing that they first celebrated in you becomes the very thing that they don’t value as they move through the devaluation stage.

These are all classic hallmarks of cycles of abuse. I’m not the only one who can see this.

Well said @sassbott.

@sassbott
I don't know the back story I only know what is in this particular post, but the truth is that call it what you will it is obvious that the relationship is not working for the OP.

When something is not working for you , the obvious solution is to do something different. I gather that the OP has removed the partner from het home.

I don't tend to look at these postings as serial events and typically only respond to the information provided in the post at hand.

If the partner is abusive then certainly they are not compatible. Leaving would still be the reasonable course of action.

@Tattler2 I completely understand what you’re saying. And you’re spot on.

There’s just two really important nuances. And I’m not singling you out per se, but I’m just trying to give a little more ‘colour’ I guess.

1. if emotional abuse / manipulation is indeed at play here (and I say IF because this is for @SnowWhitesSM to figure out) then snow is potentially caught in the middle of it. Her world is already upside down (to some degree). She’s already heard (and been told) she is the problem. So when she then hears here (or elsewhere) that this is a compatibility issue, the risk is that it sends her back to wondering if she is the issue and sending her into more knots.

2. Leaving these situations are hard. I am an immensely successful female. Well respected professionally. No one, would think, for even a second that my personal life has been the CF it has been. I personally cannot still comprehend that I am a victim of emotional abuse. I am so beyond mortified that I have had to seek professional help to ensure I stay away from someone who is so deeply unhealthy for me. But there is a reason I am finding it so hard. It’s not easy to walk away from these people. It takes a lot of courage, conviction and strength to step away. Then the hard work only just begins.

Sorry OP its not going to work. They dynamics will revert back.best you end it now.

I know it isn't going to work out

Sometimes I'm really excited about life ahead and what I've got to look forward to. Other times I think that I'm the narcissist and I'll never be happy unless I'm completely adored and sucking the life from people. Then I think no I'm not a narc as I think about other people and I tried my best and it just didn't work, I'm allowed to be excited about the future and that doesn't make me heartless.

@SnowWhitesSM

He shouted at me again yesterday and the day before because I put up a photo of my Xmas tree on fb and said me and the kids are ready for Xmas. His reaction to being hurt is to hurt me (emotionally). I shouted back at him yesterday afternoon and then by the evening he had apologised and was disgusted with himself. I really don't believe he does this on purpose, he goes into fight mode in is defence mechanism.

I’m not going to advise a reconciliation I’m afraid. You want it to be different.

You did something nice and he was abusive and sought to destroy that nice feeling and happy feeling.

Abusers employ a variety of tactics to get you back, abuse shifting, emotional abuse tactics changing - but honest to god it won’t work unless you want abuse again. You are now in the role of ‘fixer’ and ‘support’ and will hear lines such as ‘but you are the reason I’m changing etc’ - there is too much history.

You need counselling on why your boundaries are off and why you would even consider this.

@SnowWhitesSM

I know it isn't going to work out

Sometimes I'm really excited about life ahead and what I've got to look forward to. Other times I think that I'm the narcissist and I'll never be happy unless I'm completely adored and sucking the life from people. Then I think no I'm not a narc as I think about other people and I tried my best and it just didn't work, I'm allowed to be excited about the future and that doesn't make me heartless.

No you are an empathetic person exactly the type Narcissistic people with seek out or develop - narcissist don’t ask if they are narcissist or want to change they want to control those around them. If and when the fly escapes from the web they find a new victim - fly away snow and escape and leave him to his next victim

He said I put that photo up for a reaction and to hurt him. Then he agreed that's not what I did but that I didnt think of him. He says he thinks of me all the time and wouldn't post a photo on SM showing that he is single when we're working on things. I honestly did not post the caption to hurt him, I wasn't thinking about him. The caption was the truth and the first post I've put up since Sept.

In his shouting rages over the day and a half before he apologised he said that I'm one of lifes takers. He doesn't call me names he says things like that. The thing is I can make social outings the Snow Show, I do like attention, I do well in work because I like the praise. So this voice in my head goes - well you love attention Snow, you adore validation about how great you are at work, you killed yourself working FT alongside a FT uni degree to get a first class degree, you did that for validation. You love the beginning of a relationship and that attention ect - so when he says you're one of life's takers, you're a narcissist, you're controlling I get really worried that I am. But then I think, I don't get angry when I don't get attention, I live a normal life of cooking, cleaning, work, studying, kids ect and have no desire to do things for attention when I'm cooking tea. I'm quite happy pottering about my home. I just have an annoying tendency to be loud when out and about and a bit of a teachers pet at work - which everyone in my team laughs at me for. It's not where no one likes me and slags me off for it, they find it funny, just like my friends find me funny on a night out.

I just feel like my brain could break in two. Am I OK or am I not OK, I genuinely don't know. I am looking forward to putting my neurosis onto a counsellor in January!

He is throwing abuse at you left right and centre.

He only thinks of himself, and how he can bully you into taking him back.

It's complete DARVO he is the taker. All that attention was love bombing to get what he wants.

The therapist has told you he is bad news and abusive so why are you listening to him?

It sounds like you need to pull the plug else he is going to go on and on and on until you relent.

Why don't I just cut it off. I don't get it. I annoy myself about it, like either end it and block him and move on or put up with it and stop complaining.