Am I unreasonable expecting more from her?

[HeWhoRemained]

My wife and I have been together 5 years. We have a one year two child ourselves and I have two older children with my ex who are 9 & 11.

My wife is nice to my older two when they are literally in front of us but other than that she really doesn't make any effort at all with them anymore. I'm not expecting any parenting or anything from her but since we've had our child it's like she forgets they are here, all she is bothered about is our child.

I always have to remind her to say hello when she comes in or goodnight, literally just popping your head in to say 'goodnight' or goodbye when they are leaving etc... She likes to have lots of pictures up in the house and, I know I can do it myself and have done, but she's never once thought to add a picture of my older two when she's putting things in frames, it's either me and her or our DC.

I just get the distinct impression that she's not really bothered about my other children at all and would quite happily never see them again if given the option.

She's a SAHM to our youngest and has never once offered to watch my kids when she's seen me struggling to arrange things the odd time there's been an issue with childcare and such. I know that's not her job and I don't ask but is it unreasonable to expect some support from your partner in this way in certain occasions.

She's an incredible Mum to our youngest. It just seems she couldn't really give a hoot about my other two.

Would you expect more or am I being unfair and it's totally normal to only ever be concerned about our joint child?

She doesn't want your children to think they are part of the family. She is letting them know you have a new family now and it's your main family and why would she think to put these 2 outsiders in the family collages. She isn't forgetting to say good bye when they are leaving she is letting them know they aren't worth even saying goodbye too. She is just making sure to be casually dismissive to edge them out more and more. She isn't nice. Are you doing anything to make sure your children are at the centre of your family?

The OP has long since gone.
Leaving posters to second guess motives all over the place.
Maybe she's deliberately excluding the SC's maybe not. Maybe she's tired, maybe she is wicked and evil. Who knows.
When you are in this situation it's perfectly possible to be a decent step parent but also carve out a little space in your life that doesn't include your partner's kids. I have SC's and I have a child of my own. I don't love them the same and I don't treat them the same. Funnily enough, everyone is ok with this. All the kids get the same from their Dad though and they all like each other.
One size does not fit all.

@Darthwader

She doesn't want your children to think they are part of the family. She is letting them know you have a new family now and it's your main family and why would she think to put these 2 outsiders in the family collages. She isn't forgetting to say good bye when they are leaving she is letting them know they aren't worth even saying goodbye too. She is just making sure to be casually dismissive to edge them out more and more. She isn't nice. Are you doing anything to make sure your children are at the centre of your family?

And how exactly would you know this to be true? Do you know OP’s DP? How ridiculous

@Beamur

The OP has long since gone. Leaving posters to second guess motives all over the place. Maybe she's deliberately excluding the SC's maybe not. Maybe she's tired, maybe she is wicked and evil. Who knows. When you are in this situation it's perfectly possible to be a decent step parent but also carve out a little space in your life that doesn't include your partner's kids. I have SC's and I have a child of my own. I don't love them the same and I don't treat them the same. Funnily enough, everyone is ok with this. All the kids get the same from their Dad though and they all like each other. One size does not fit all.

Yes, I very much agree with this.

Another explanation?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4329678-To-think-I-m-weird-about-my-son

"Isn't it the responsibility of whoever enters and leaves the home to say hi and bye"

Honestly, I don't stubbornly wait there thinking the entrant to my house should say hi first before doing so. The thought of waiting for another to make the first move to say hi wouldn't cross my mind. Let alone a child who's a family member. What a weird and immature attitude that'd be.

@Tomtomsokillis

"Isn't it the responsibility of whoever enters and leaves the home to say hi and bye"

Honestly, I don't stubbornly wait there thinking the entrant to my house should say hi first before doing so. The thought of waiting for another to make the first move to say hi wouldn't cross my mind. Let alone a child who's a family member. What a weird and immature attitude that'd be.

You're being extremely facetious. It's obvious they meant she might not see it is necessary for her to seek them out to say hello and goodbye, when she would subconsciously expect it to be the other way around. If there isn't some rule that the person in the house must say hello to the entrant, then why is she specifically getting flack for it.

"Even for previous threads where a SM comes here openly saying she hates the SC or resents them or just doesn't want them around since having her own kids... she's met with... "it's normal" .."don't worry" "It's your maternal instinct" etc... So I'm at a loss to see why this thread can't be taken at face value, like any post a SM does in the situation.

His wife's behaviour towards his kids has changed...that's it. It's not unusual among SMs, but that doesn't make it right."

I read similar threads to one's you describe. Sure, the conversation needs to be constructive, but there is such a thing called constructive criticism." don't worry about it, just see the kid less" seems to be the general advice, which ends up damaging the DSC's well being of course, but if the SM doesn't seem to give a shite about that, the family unit will suffer as a whole. The DP will, because their DC are excluded, the DC will, because she/he will lack a harmonious home and a sibling, and in the end so will the SM.

"You're being extremely facetious"

Oh I am being facetious? 😂 Here we have someone justifying a person not even saying hi or bye to some kid coming to their house by saying the kid should say so first. But I'm the one who said something strange. Never mind then.

@Tomtomsokillis

"You're being extremely facetious"

Oh I am being facetious? 😂 Here we have someone justifying a person not even saying hi or bye to some kid coming to their house by saying the kid should say so first. But I'm the one who said something strange. Never mind then.

Yes, you are. It's a case of "why is it such a big deal that she doesn't say hello and goodbye, come to think of it why didn't they and why is the focus on her, since I would expect the person entering to be the one to do it, if anything."

Unless they are saying hello and she is blanking them, which is not the impression OP gave, I really don't think anyone needs to "justify" such a small, inconsequential thing.

I read similar threads to one's you describe. Sure, the conversation needs to be constructive, but there is such a thing called constructive criticism." don't worry about it, just see the kid less" seems to be the general advice, which ends up damaging the DSC's well being of course, but if the SM doesn't seem to give a shite about that, the family unit will suffer as a whole. The DP will, because their DC are excluded, the DC will, because she/he will lack a harmonious home and a sibling, and in the end so will the SM.

You (and Sandy for that matter) need to recognise that these are other people's genuine perspectives, not them failing to be objective whilst you in your equally unwavering POV somehow are. There are many people on here that do have successful, long term set ups where some degree of detachment does exist, and everybody involved is happy and secure. You can believe that that is always awful for all involved, especially the children, if you want, but that is not everybody else's experience. Their advice is constructive. It just isn't the same as yours.

It's incredibly arrogant to think only your advice is objective. It's absolutely no more objective than the people on the other side of the fence to you.

On the contrary Sofanearyou, you're the one insisting on a particular perspective, and belief that any hostile attitude can or should be justified. I had two SMs, first had a very similar attitude to the one OP describes here (even the photos, an album in this case) . They divorced, so the other DC became an SC too after my DF married again, when I was still young. My second SM is like a mum to me, she wouldn't think about excluding us from collages and leaving it only to my DF to have a relationship with us. She's a genuine person and I love her to bits. After the first one, she offered much healing to our family, which was a result of her inclusive attitude and taking of responsibility to construct a relationship with us. She said always that they're partners with DF and partnership includes equal efforts in raising and maintaining a family. I try to imitate same attitude in my family which contains step relationships. Of course there are disagreements, of course she and I have off days, but like any family, we know we love each other. You're delusional if you think not giving a toss about your SC is completely OK, not including kids in family photos is perfectly understandable, because they "don't bring a smile to your face" .

On the contrary Sofanearyou, you're the one insisting on a particular perspective, and belief that any hostile attitude can or should be justified.

What? I very much am not, I'm literally responding to accusations that mine and others comments on here are not objective and always defend step mothers on the basis that they are step mothers. Tell me where I have insisted on a particular perspective and discredited the genuine viewpoints of others in that manner. It is nonsense.

You're delusional if you think not giving a toss about your SC is completely OK, not including kids in family photos is perfectly understandable, because they "don't bring a smile to your face"

This is a comment you have taken totally out of context so you're wasting your time quoting it over and over again. Somebody said to me they wouldn't care if they didn't have nice pictures of their child, they would want them up anyway because it makes them smile to see them, so I said it makes my DP smile not me so why doesn't he do it, rather than complain to me that I haven't taken the time to do so. Not that I want to deliberately exclude my DSC from photos because it doesn't make me smile FFS.

I see not making the move to put pictures of my step children up as entirely different to refusing to include them when their parent tries to, and yes the former is entirely appropriate and reasonable to me. I don't see it as reasonable for him to complain about what she does and doesn't do rather than just do it himself.

@Tomtomsokillis hold on a second there, I think your projecting a bit. What worked your family worked for your family because of the players in the game and the various external and internal dynamics of the household. You saw it only from your perspective and even if you asked both SM I doubt as a child in the family they would tell you how they felt because it may end up hurting you. Your view isn't the whole picture and if your not a SM it's a even more limited picture .

Your entitled to your opinion but as is everyone else. You don't get to come along and make wide sweeping statements and present opinions as facts, because they are not

I have seen plenty of people on here who you have been mentioning, come down on SMs who aren't reasonable, fairly hard. Again you may not have seen that because your perspective is limited only to what you can see or have seen.

What sofa and many others on here gets annoyed with is the blatant and sometimes downright irony of people giving out "constructive criticism" or shaming of Sm for doing one thing which on another thread in the flipped situation are advising the reverse and still beating the SM up. It's like there is no way anyone can win.

And I'm sorry to say but a lot of the anger is only directed at SMs, not SD or dads (even if the dad is behaving badly it's still some how SMs fault) . It's sad at women that we do this so blatantly.

I don't agree with the person who is at home finding the person who comes home to say hello too. Its completely normal and the 'done thing' to say hi when you go into a house. It's rude to just run off upstairs and not say hi in anyones house.

If my dss doesn't say hello to me and runs straight up to see my ds (who he absolutely loves) then when I next see him I say - oh hiya dss, I havent seen you yet, are you OK. I don't ignore him back or be mean. Dh does prompt him to say hi to me though as its basic manners. If we don't teach him that when you go into a house you say hi to the people in it then who will? Its dh job as a parent to make sure dss knows manners and how to act/behave. We've now started on saying thank you for dinner, again another basic manner that dss didn't know but should have known.

I do put pictures of dss up (well not on walls, I hate photos on walls and think they're tacky, I have put photos of dss in photo frames in the book case and side board) but I can see how the OPs wife's resentment may have crept in as OP has obviously not taught dc basic manners which make people like your company and want to be around you. She may not have the emotional intelligence to see that its her husbands fault and not her sdc and takes it personally. I wouldn't exclude my dss, I do my best to make sure he feels he belongs in our family and this includes supporting him to have manners and say hi, bye, please and thank you. Having the same expectations for everyone makes everyone feel they belong and are not seperate.

" I can see how the OPs wife's resentment may have crept in as OP has obviously not taught dc basic manners"

Wow, talk about taking it out of context. Now it is the op's fault, cos he didn't teach the dsc manners and the sm is not saying hello and excluding the kids for this rightful reason! You guys are exceedingly hilarious...

Candlelight, everyone's entitled to their opinions and everyone including sofa and yourself experience the sm world from your own perspective. The argument started precisely because of posters e.g.sofa making sweeping judgements about SMs, mainly that they're always rightful angels, and that's the issue various people have. You must be seeing it, but can't even admit that. Lost cause really. Feel free to continue spending your lives finding excuses, and drown in your miseries, what do I care.

Not saying hello etc is very rude and unwelcoming.

The rest however, she perfectly entitled to do.

She isn't there to provide you with childcare for your DC.

She's a step mum. She has no parental responsibility to your DC. Many step mums get dragged on here for parenting their SC in any way so I can't blame her attitude.

As for the photos. You are able to sort photos for your DC on the walls aren't you?

In the gentlest way possible. As a step mum who loves her SD but also a mother to my DD I can tell you honestly that the love i feel for my SD comes now where near to the love I feel for my own child. I don't think you should have that expectation for your wife

Feel free to continue spending your lives finding excuses, and drown in your miseries, what do I care

@Tomtomsokillis and yet you have been arguing with anyone with a different perspective (calling them excuses) so avidly it's apparent you clearly do care. She hasn't said SM are angels 🥴 ? Just offered a different perspective to yours. Anyway to long has this thread been hijacked so let's just agree to disagree.

@Frankola agreed my problem with the hello and goodbye thing is we don't have much context to go on. It seems OP said his wife was great before and now it's changed and we could be missing a bit of info. Maybe a MH concern ? Post partum depression can kick the best of us.

I think your projecting a bit
The good old passive aggressive standard SM comment when one dares to challenge the mumsnet SM status quo?

It's as bad as the 'you knew what you were getting into' comments.

Ultimately, it's quite an ironic one as we all project our views from our own experiences, be it as a Ex with kids who have a SM, those who had a SM, and SMs themselves.

There seem to be a few posters here who seem to be prepared to defend, or certainly excuse the actions of SMs every time whatever the issue raised. SMs surely can't always be wonderful, kind, and meaning well people. Just like there are many resentful and spiteful exes, they must be some SMs who wish their SCs didn't exist and who struggle to hide their feelings, even if they believe that they do.

@vivainsomnia if your going to quote - quote all of it as everything can be taken out of context

hold on a second there, I think your projecting a bit. What worked your family worked for your family because of the players in the game and the various external and internal dynamics of the household.

I stated that because in my perspective the PP was projecting making wide sweeping statements that are true to her and her situation. The truth of the matter is

Follow on as phone went weird -

We are all just coming at it from our own perspective. It's fine to say this what happens to me. But to make general assumptions and wide sweeping statements applied to all SM is a little much and yes people are going to push back on that.

Your view of this board is different to mine. You may think it's lovely supportive board for SM, some others may not. Your truth isn't the only truth going.

Candlelight, everyone's entitled to their opinions and everyone including sofa and yourself experience the sm world from your own perspective. The argument started precisely because of posters e.g.sofa making sweeping judgements about SMs, mainly that they're always rightful angels, and that's the issue various people have. You must be seeing it, but can't even admit that.

Haha what? This is really not a very intelligent summary of my input (since it's not what I said at any point in the slightest) so there's really not much point picking it apart.

The fact that you think only the people you don't agree with are biased and one sided and can't think far enough to apply that same logic to yourself is laughable.

I stated that because in my perspective the PP was projecting making wide sweeping statements that are true to her and her situation. The truth of the matter is
And my point is why bring it up when everyone is projecting in every thread they right. Everyone on AIBU are projecting, but it's only on this board that this comment is made, always when someone dares talking about their own experience of living with a SM!

It's a passive aggressive and quite insulting statement when it almost always follow the account of a personal and upsetting experience. It more or less say that their experience is irrelevant to the matter because it's personal and can't possibly apply to the matter in question!

There seem to be a few posters here who seem to be prepared to defend, or certainly excuse the actions of SMs every time whatever the issue raised. SMs surely can't always be wonderful, kind, and meaning well people. Just like there are many resentful and spiteful exes, they must be some SMs who wish their SCs didn't exist and who struggle to hide their feelings, even if they believe that they do.

The trouble is that a certain few posters really seem to struggle to grasp that if we are supportive towards a certain SM that you would not be, it doesn't automatically mean that we are only doing it out of blind loyalty to SMs. Believe it or not, I just genuinely believe, from the limited evidence here, that this SMs behaviour is not appalling and thar actually OP has a lot to answer for. I am not grasping around for ways to excuse her behaviour, from my perspective, subject to certain potential dripfeeds, it is genuinely excusable.

I do not apply logic that I would not apply to myself. I understand that other people's opinions are generally as thought out and genuinely felt as my own are. It does not paint anyone as more intelligent to try and discredit the opinions of others that they just don't agree with by suggesting the other person doesn't genuinely feel them, they are just blindly loyal to a certain perspective.