Really stuck with DSS now

[ilikeagoodsarnie]

I've posted on here a few times about different things, always NC just in case!

I posted before about my DSS lying and came to the conclusion with MNers help that some of it was lying and some of it may have been how he's seen the situation.
My DP and I sat down with DSS and discussed what was said and ironed everything out and since then everything has been fine, no lying but still the tattling back to DM has carried on.

So, I've been told today by DM that DSS has told his nan (not DP mum) something about my DP and our DS. It's something that it said out of context could involve social services, the actual incident itself was harmless and if I thought my child was in danger I'd do something about it.

Anyway, I was happy DM told me because she didn't know if I knew about said incident DSS had said and we chatted and it's fine.

BUT, I'm at a loss as to why DSS felt the need to tell his nan about the incident between my DP and our DS. His nan is not my DS nan, I don't know the woman, by the sounds of what I've been told and incidents I've seen with her and my DP she's not very nice and spouts crap about my DP to the DSC which they repeat.

I want to speak to DSS about why he felt the need to tell his nan about something she didn't really need to know about, but I don't know what to say without coming across as angry as I am, I obviously don't want to upset him.

I'm really close with my DSC but for the past few months my DSS seems like he's hell bent on making his dad out to be an absolute monster which he's not. I feel like my DP and I can't speak freely in our home or act as we would when he's here with fear that he'll take something and twist it or view it different for what it is and tell his DM or nan.

If anyone has any ideas on what I could say or how I could say it to him would be great, I've supported him over the past few years as much as I can, even when his DM thought he had anxiety, I'm always the one that's there for him (just because I'm softer than my DP) so I'd really like to have a chat and try and understand what's going on.

@ilikeagoodsarnie I can say as a mum no one wants to hear that their kids been lying. To be frank when I heard about DSC I had my reservations thinking surely not.
It's hard to think about with the some kids and DSC is a angelic looking kid. Smart as anything too by my books.

She used to play mum and dad off against each other to get treats and presents because there other parent would feel guilty for the others "lack of". She knew they didn't talk and has openly admitted she preferred it when they didn't so she didn't get into trouble 🤯 the started talking more the lies just kept coming.
I would remind DH of this when the reverse happens and speak to mum about clarification calmly.

My grandmother used to have a saying which used to baffle me as a child "there's a difference between knowing your kids and actually knowing your kids - most people only do the former"

Grit your teeth op and make bridges with mum. She will probably know deep down. This behaviour won't solely happen at your house or at hers, it will happen at school ect. Frame it this way in your head. You have a incredibly smart DSC to be doing this they may also need psychological help that you can't give to them.

Also this SP thread can really bring out some judgemental comments from some who project their issues on to you. Take those comments will a pinch of salt I imagine cages maybe rattled from this post

@newomums

I understand that, the first thing I said to my DP was that I completely understood why she went into defence mode, no one wants ever think their child has lied to them about anything.

Your grandmother has a very good point!

I am on an okay ground with mum, I never want to say bad things about her children and 99% of the time I don't, it's just all of this.
It's happened at school, he said the exact same thing about his teacher all because DSS was being naughty and got told off.

Oh I know, I've read other threads and think to myself 'really?!'

I understand why you would want to say something and how frustrating it is. But I really don’t think you can speak to him about it without it coming across as you trying to silence him.

Social services would be more concerned about that, than a concern that comes in and turns out to be nothing.

I know no one wants a call or visit from SS but they really aren’t monsters either and don’t want to be involved where there is no need to be. So if there is really nothing to be worried about just leave it be.

Worst case scenario, they get informed, visit, see all is ok, and likely leave.

Telling him not to tell people things makes it look like there is something to hide IMO even though I get you don’t want him particularly spouting your business to his other family members especially ones you don’t know and make life difficult but it just is what it is.

@Blendiful

No I think I've decided to not say anything, more of the fact that I don't know what to say or how to say it.
He didn't want his dad knowing so DP can't say anything either.

I think because you only ever hear horror stories about social services you naturally panic about it.

I can see how that would come across, it's just like you said I just don't want my business being blabbed to people I don't know or haven't heard the best things about. I know there's not much I can do about it either.

@ilikeagoodsarnie probably the worst thread area to post in sometimes but there is helpful advice to be had if you have thick enough skin.

I think that actually every-time he lies about something make it public knowledge, speak to mum hand say I would invite SC in and be willing to do just that. They have seen this type of behaviour before and would be looking for what you have done so far to support DSC ie therapy if he's showing these issues. He's using the power dynamics to throw you off balance, don't keep pulling on the rope, drop the rope and treat the situation for what it is.

A child making some fairly tall tales and invite anyone in to come and check for themselves. Some of the previous comments are right in that respect, just because he's telling "his truth" doesn't mean it's a "the truth" and if you act like the adult and he's the child, people will come to realise your not hiding anything therefore he is lying and may need some help with that.

The grandma in this story is moot point, if lines of communication between mum and dad are kept open. Keep it friendly, keep DSC at center of all talks, and keep talking. Also I would advise you watch that kid like a hawk and if he does something again I would contact SC myself and say DSC has said this, you are welcome to come check but we are worried about the situation and want to get some advice on what to do with SDC and what support there is there for him.

They deal with malicious reports all the time trust me (my aunty is a social worker) and engaging with them at the front means a lot less hassle in the end. Promise they aren't there to steal children, they are there to help families stay together and are a wealth of knowledge.

Good luck op

@newomums

Thank you so much for your helpful input 💕

She never said she was his mum! She clearly wants to help her DSS get stability.

He clearly has issues - I think it’s due to parenting. He father should spend more time with him and I think OP should step back (that can sometime be really hard). Let him do the parenting. He should be the one that speak to his son about what he said to his Nan.

Honestly OP I don’t think you should do what @rishisboater suggest .. let his father do that instead.

@Guavafish

DP would, the only problem is DSS doesn't want his dad knowing because in his words 'I'll get into trouble' which he wouldn't he would just be spoken to about it.

DSS doesn't even know I know, he literally thinks he's told his nan and that's it.

That's why I'm abit off with it all because really, what's that going to achieve?

You need to override what he wants in that regard. He needs to know when he voices a concern like that people take it seriously.

He's not in any trouble with either of you, but you have the right to reply

@Guavafish

She never said she was his mum! She clearly wants to help her DSS get stability.

He clearly has issues - I think it’s due to parenting. He father should spend more time with him and I think OP should step back (that can sometime be really hard). Let him do the parenting. He should be the one that speak to his son about what he said to his Nan.

Honestly OP I don’t think you should do what @rishisboater suggest .. let his father do that instead.

You're right dad should be there. I was imagining that in my head when I wrote it but should have clarified.

@rishisboater

I'm torn because, do I break the trust he has telling his nan and mum stuff by talking to him or do I leave it and keep that trust for him to see what else he comes out with?

What is there to gain from seeing what else he comes out with? Also, if you make it clear he isn't in trouble and can always talk to trusted adult etc, then why would he stop?

He needs direct reassurance from you re the birth mark.

His mum and nan should have told him they were going to tell you because they were obliged to given the seriousness

@rishisboater

True. We always reassure him he's never in trouble when he's spoken to but he still repeats the same thing every time to his mum, essentially lying to her and making her worry.

I said to DP before he went to work, I'm dreading DSS coming back because we're weaning LO onto textured foods, he hates it and sounds like he's being murdered so I can't wait for when DSS goes and tells him mum when he goes home 😩

@rishisboater

They should have, but everything seems hush hush

Yeah that's really no way to live is it. In your own hone feeling like things are going back.

We didn't have the lies as such but it was things like how I hadn't got dressed until lunchtime, or my knickers were grannyish, or I had a big spot on my face. Sometimes even accompanied by pictures sent to mum.

Your home should be your safe place.

@rishisboater

That's horrible, I'm really sorry they did that to you!

I'm extremely lucky that I have such a good relationship with both DSC, I have a much closer relationship with DSD and I think I just find it easier because she's a girl and I have no idea what to do with boys 😂
The way I put it to my DP was that I've been a little girl I know what's that like, I've never been a little boy and although I now have a son I'm growing with him so I'll work it out as he grows.

I'm doing that with DSS but he is quite closed off which is hard. I think it's partly because he knows I know he's lying, his mum says he adores me and trusts me I just wish he trusted me enough to talk.

I'm worried that you keep saying that he lies and lies, but as far as I can see the examples you've given weren't actually lies. It isn't lying to say his dad is strict if he thinks he is strict. It may be inaccurate, but it isn't a lie. It isn't a lie to say he's been shouted at if, as you actually say, he interprets any raised or exasperated voice as shouting. He feels he has been shouted at. He has had the emotional reaction of having been shouted at. In his mind he was shouted at. That is not a lie.

On this most recent episode, he saw his dad being "frustrated" with his baby brother, and then noticed a mark on him that he'd never seen before. Now, you know that mark has always been there. He didn't. So it is absolutely understandable that he put 2 and 2 together and got 5. So he was worried. Which shows he actually cares about his baby brother, which is great. And because he was worried about his baby brother he told a trusted family member. Not your trusted family member, but still his trusted family member. Which is actually a praise worthy and grownup thing to have done. Which in different circumstances could have been an incredibly good and important thing rescuing a baby from harm.

You're aiming your blame wrong. Blaming his mother and nan (especially as some of the nan's behaviour has been out of order!) is perfectly reasonable. Blaming a scared, vulnerable, confused, anxious kid? Please don't.

@nocoolnamesleft

I did a whole post a couple of months back about the lying.

Just a small example he was really naughty at ours so my DP decided to remove the PlayStation from his room, he asked me to do it before the DSC arrived which I did. Now DSS told his mum that DP removed it in front of him and basically made a big song and dance and was really horrible to him when he removed it.

That was a complete lie, I did it before they even arrived at our house it was sat on our bedroom stairs (we had another upstairs room) way before they arrived unplugged.

DP obviously sat down and explained why it happened and then DSS was caught out texting his mum to 'dob' dad in which he admitted because he thought mum didn't know and thought she could do something about it.

The lies then got worse, some were small, some were big they vary depending on what's happened in our home that he didn't like I'm assuming.

Maybe OP but a lot of the examples you give in this thread are not him lying at all. "Being spoken to" is pretty much the same as "being in trouble" when you are 9. You are fixated by him being this bothersome, lying kid when he's just basically trying to navigate the world trapped in bw various households and hostile adults.

He will stop lying when he doesnt feel the need to lie. He will still misrepresent certain events because he has his own perspective on the world.

Mmm. That's an interesting example you've given. Given how you've described him reacting if someone even raises their voice slightly, I suspect even that wasn't a deliberate lie.

Actual situation: he comes home to his dad's, and finds his playstation has been removed because he's been naughty.

How this plays out in overanxious child's head: They've taken my playstation! I'm in trouble! I'm in so much trouble! They must be really mad at me! What if they yell at me? It would be horrible if they yelled at me! I can't cope if they yell at me! I'm getting all upset at the thought of being yelled at! I'm really freaking out about being yelled at! It was awful being yelled at!

Having stressed themselves out into imagining the event, and having experienced the stress of the imagined event, can make it feel just as real as the actual reality.

Don't focus on "stopping him lying", focus on "making him feel more comfortable, and confident, and settled", and the "lying" will settle too.

@nocoolnamesleft

No I totally get that, from my old post it was clear that whilst yes some of them were actual lies, some of them were versions of events that he saw and I accept that.

I sat down with him and got him to write all his worries ect and everything he said he worried about at dads we actioned. Nothing has changed.

We're trying and nothing seems to have worked.

I've also noticed this time he's been with us he's been doing things around DS which has been weird as if he's watching him and us with him. It actually is making me feel quite uncomfortable.

This could be interpreted as he's genuinely worried but as I've said before, he has never ever bothered with DS so I'm not sure what has changed that now.

Did you really think he'd go through his life not being bothered by his brother? In fact you know he's bothered, you said he was jealous. He's bound to have all sorts of complex emotions about him (all siblings do) that will shift and alter as they both grow up.

@Porcupineintherough

No I meant it as he's never played with him, cuddled him or shown any interest.
Of course I know he's bothered, but I can't just take DS away because he's bothered.

Peak lying age is 3-8 (child development). When children change home or you introduce a new baby, they tend to regress quite a lot in development age - so some of your problem is this.

One of my (adult, living at home) SCs talked in a baby voice to their Dad for quite some time after we got together. Disconcerting, but over it now.

From what you've said about him being afraid of the least talking to, and loving reading - I think you've got yourself a highly sensitive child there with quite the imagination. Work with his imagination and reading as teaching tools, and there are books around on how to handle 'highly sensitive' people.