Really stuck with DSS now

[ilikeagoodsarnie]

I've posted on here a few times about different things, always NC just in case!

I posted before about my DSS lying and came to the conclusion with MNers help that some of it was lying and some of it may have been how he's seen the situation.
My DP and I sat down with DSS and discussed what was said and ironed everything out and since then everything has been fine, no lying but still the tattling back to DM has carried on.

So, I've been told today by DM that DSS has told his nan (not DP mum) something about my DP and our DS. It's something that it said out of context could involve social services, the actual incident itself was harmless and if I thought my child was in danger I'd do something about it.

Anyway, I was happy DM told me because she didn't know if I knew about said incident DSS had said and we chatted and it's fine.

BUT, I'm at a loss as to why DSS felt the need to tell his nan about the incident between my DP and our DS. His nan is not my DS nan, I don't know the woman, by the sounds of what I've been told and incidents I've seen with her and my DP she's not very nice and spouts crap about my DP to the DSC which they repeat.

I want to speak to DSS about why he felt the need to tell his nan about something she didn't really need to know about, but I don't know what to say without coming across as angry as I am, I obviously don't want to upset him.

I'm really close with my DSC but for the past few months my DSS seems like he's hell bent on making his dad out to be an absolute monster which he's not. I feel like my DP and I can't speak freely in our home or act as we would when he's here with fear that he'll take something and twist it or view it different for what it is and tell his DM or nan.

If anyone has any ideas on what I could say or how I could say it to him would be great, I've supported him over the past few years as much as I can, even when his DM thought he had anxiety, I'm always the one that's there for him (just because I'm softer than my DP) so I'd really like to have a chat and try and understand what's going on.

@SpaceshiptoMars

You know, we've said to the kids time and time again 'if you lie and we find out, we'll end up believing you less and less and then when you're really telling the truth and need help you may be in trouble which is why it is always important to tell the truth'

Not to scare them but to back the importance of it, DSD gets it and she little white lies but not the big whoppers that DSS does.

@MeltingFlamenco

Thank you! I'm glad you've seen what im trying to say.

I don't want to stop him from telling her things but it's the nature of the information.

@Whiskycav

I've always said there's 3 sides to every story, his side, her side and the truth because people see situations completely differently.

I can't speak for the ex gfs, I wasn't there but I know about the last one from what both mum and dad have told me and it's the same story.
I have an issue with nan dragging the DSC away and screaming in my DP face infront of them and down the phone with them with her.

I've tried with the anxiety but mum made out she was all for sorting it and then nothing, I've done as much as I can and so has my DP but without her input it will only get so far.

ilikeagoodsarnie he will have been worrying about something he witnessed and misunderstood, will have been with his nan and subconsciously knows she's a receptive audience for worries concerning his dad.

It won't be remotely that he thought about it in thr context of her needing to know, but that he was worrying about what he saw and knew she'd listen and take him seriously and probably unconsciously also that she'd reward him with attention because its the sort of thing she likes hearing (rather than perhaps wanting to dismiss the worry and minimise it as someone favourable to his dad might).

Children sandwiched between warring adults often lie without remotely planning it because the attention they get for the truthful (to them - perhaps misunderstood) negative account encourages them to keep going...

The reasons children habitually lie or attention seek are usually because they feel insecure or unsafe and are trying to please or test the adults in their lives, but they don't plan it or know they're doing ut at 9!

Having anxiety has become an overused armchair diagnosis but he certainly sounds like an insecure and worried child.

@HalzTangz

From the outside I 100% agree with you and I thanked mum, she was worried she was overstepping but I was appreciative of the worry.

I get he saw what he thought happened, but it's not the first time and I dread to think it won't be the last. The lies and twisting have got wilder and wilder and I feel so badly for my DP who is being made out to be a monster when he's the complete opposite.

Just for a side note DSS did this to a teacher at school too, made a bunch of accusations that weren't true and he was found to be lying, it was horrendous.

As for counselling, mum needs to be on side and she won't believe that he's lying.

How many girlfriends have there been? He's only 9. That's a lot of change in his life. How long have you been with his dad?

I think YABU. He's a child who was scared. And at 9 he shouldn't know your do and his gran are mortal enemies. That's absurd.

@pastafeend

No and we don't, it is frustrating in my mind that he knows it and still continues to tell nan what goes on in our home and im allowed to feel frustrated, I understand he won't get that and there is absolutely no pressure to not discuss things with his nan because he will anyway.

There is blame all over, but with the situation between nan and dad from what I've seen it's nan.

He has caused a lot of issues and I'm well aware the lying is to attract attention but it's the wrong kind of attention and we've been trying to teach him that, not by telling him off.
I don't understand the need for attention because I've said before out of all the bloody kids he's the one that gets all the attention!

@Josette77
Just the one I think 😊

Thing is, he has no reason to be scared. Not from what I've seen in the past three years and all this has cropped up in the past 6 months.

No I agree with you but that's not because we've told him, it's because of her actions towards dad.

[quote ilikeagoodsarnie]@pastafeend

No and we don't, it is frustrating in my mind that he knows it and still continues to tell nan what goes on in our home and im allowed to feel frustrated, I understand he won't get that and there is absolutely no pressure to not discuss things with his nan because he will anyway.

There is blame all over, but with the situation between nan and dad from what I've seen it's nan.

He has caused a lot of issues and I'm well aware the lying is to attract attention but it's the wrong kind of attention and we've been trying to teach him that, not by telling him off.
I don't understand the need for attention because I've said before out of all the bloody kids he's the one that gets all the attention! [/quote]

You don't seem to understand any of it.

Perhaps it is because you don't listen.

Just a thought.

Sometimes kids need things to enter their heads through more than one route - pictures, stories, songs etc. I was thinking something like this, but it's a bit young. Hopefully someone else will be along in a minute with a better idea!
www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Your-Dragon-Stop-Lying/dp/1948040417?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Some kind of adventure story with a bit of a moral to it - C S Lewis, Narnia books? But more modern and like catnip to 9 yr olds.

I understand because I've been there with my DSS too OP.

DSS (9) once told such an elaborate lie it was a miracle he and his siblings at his mothers house didn't end up in care.

It's not ok.

[quote ilikeagoodsarnie]@HalzTangz

From the outside I 100% agree with you and I thanked mum, she was worried she was overstepping but I was appreciative of the worry.

I get he saw what he thought happened, but it's not the first time and I dread to think it won't be the last. The lies and twisting have got wilder and wilder and I feel so badly for my DP who is being made out to be a monster when he's the complete opposite.

Just for a side note DSS did this to a teacher at school too, made a bunch of accusations that weren't true and he was found to be lying, it was horrendous.

As for counselling, mum needs to be on side and she won't believe that he's lying. [/quote]
Yet she already believes he lies or she wouldn't have told you what he told his nan.
You, your husband and the mother need to get together without children and discuss this issue and what steps to take.
Have you chased the mother with regards to dealing with his anxiety, or just told her you'd support but left ball in her court. If the latter she may feel you and your husband won't be supportive at all.
As for the man, get a restraining order so she can't come screaming at the house, don't call her, and hang up if she calls you. Don't entertain her at all

To add to that, do you think it's possible he enjoys playing your DP and his nan off against each other?

Children do this unfortunately especially If they sense a divide between said adults.

I think you need to not say anything on this situation.

He is entitled to talk to anyone and he can talking about his brother too. Obviously he is not telling the truth. But let you DP deal with it!

ilikeagoodsarnie giving him all the attention won't meet his need ironically. He's 9 - he doesn't know what he needs. Irs like someone who overeats because they feel stressed - what they actually need isn't all the food, its help to manage stress, yet they can't see that in the middle of the stress, and food blocks thecstress for a few seconds.

Your DSS feels insecure, psychologically unsafe, because of the conflict and instability in his life (not necessarily at any given moment but on an ongoing basis). He's attention seeking to feel safe and be reassured that all his important adults love him, and to boundary test because he's probably unconsciously afraid of being screamed at and rejected himself, or of being rejected/ abandoned etc.

What he needs is to be safe, not to have more attention than his siblings. He quite possibly also worries they're not safe too - it sounds as though he's worried about his baby half brother. It doesn't matter that he's physically not in danger; its completely normal to feel unsafe in the middle of adult drama and conflict.

@pastafeend

Clearly not, enlighten me it might help

@SpaceshiptoMars

I get what you mean, he actually loves reading books not sure if he understands the story although he does tell you about the story so far so probably! I might go looking for a book that might help! Thank you 😊

[quote ilikeagoodsarnie]@pastafeend

Clearly not, enlighten me it might help [/quote]

Read all the comments

I'm not about to repost everything.

There are some really helpful posts here and you are not willing to listen because you are right and the child is wrong.

@HalzTangz

I've tried, she's cooperative and then it's like nothing. She's not shitty with me so it's not like that at all but it's like the subject falls off the end of the earth to her.

I've left the ball in her court but the amount of times I've said to her that I'm here, we're both here. I'm here to support as much as I can with the kids and he's here because he's their dad, it's his job (i don't mean that in a negative way just he's a very hands on dad)
She just doesn't take up the hand we stretch out and then blames us for the things he says which we try and explain are lies but doesn't believe us.
We even caught them both our once and she still didn't acknowledge it, it's so frustrating.

I just want the best for all of the children, I give as much as I possibly can as a mother to my own and as whatever the step children need and want me to be. It's hard when that's not reciprocated the other end.

@MeltingFlamenco

To add to that, do you think it's possible he enjoys playing your DP and his nan off against each other?

Children do this unfortunately especially If they sense a divide between said adults.

agree on that.

and also, he must be told he mustnt lie.

@MeltingFlamenco

Yes, I will get absolutely flamed for saying this because people will see an age and automatically think 'child innocent' but I truly believe he has an inclination of what he's doing and the fall out from it and it gets him what he wants, the attention from his mum and nan.

I feel if they are lead to believe he's getting half arsed love and care from dad then they have to make up for it and they do so he ends up with more.

I feel terrible for saying it because he is a child but children are clever.
We try and protect both children from as much fall out as possible but it's hard when it's coming from somewhere we can't control.

@Guavafish

Problem is, he didn't want his dad knowing because he thought he as in DSS would get in trouble.

He's forever saying they 'don't tell dad I'll get into trouble' when it's far from the truth.

I think it's really harmful to stepchildren to have to think of their life as being in two parts. You talk about your dss dragging you into his other life.

This isn't a reasonable expectation, he has one life. He has to go between two homes because of his parents separation. He can't be expected to put the same boundaries in place that his parents have.

I lied a lot at that age, I told parents, step parents etc things I thought they wanted to hear. I told them lies that I thought would make sure each side still loved me. I was very aware of the conflict even though they thought they protected me from it.

I'm not saying the lying is ok, but it isn't unusual and it will pass.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

Then what do we do? I thought we provided a safe, loving, nurturing home but the past 6 months has been a nightmare of all of this from him. We don't know what to do anymore, there's obviously something we've missed but I don't know what.

When I sat and spoke to him I went through everything that made him sad and happy in both homes and what he would like in both homes and everything he asked of me and my DP we have done. I don't know about mums home, but he knows she knows because he asked me to speak to her.

I'm just at a complete loss.

@pastafeend

I have tried, I can't do much without mums input. It takes both households to communicate and come together to help him and I have tried.

I would do anything for that little boy, but when he has lied and lied and dragged my son into his lies I'm sad. I don't know what we've done wrong literally in the past 6 months.

I've sat with him and supported him, his dad has sat with him and supported him.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just trying to explain things a little to maybe help understand. I'm not perfect and that's why I've come for help from other mums and step mums.