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Invited but only when DSC are here

199 replies

PurpleyBlue · 17/06/2021 12:51

My DH and I have a child and I have DSC. His family have taken to inviting us to family things but it's always "if DSC are with you then would you like to come round?" Does anyone else get this? It feels a bit insulting somehow, like we are only welcome when all the children are together.

OP posts:
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Bibidy · 18/06/2021 23:28

She views her connection to both of the women as simply the grandmother to their children. It is not unlike the step children who may view you as dad's wife rather than as a step mother.

Tiredoftattler, I do think it's nice that you see this relationship as working well all round. But honestly I can't see how you can reconcile the above with her having a good relationship with her son.

He is the father of all of the children, yet she bases her relationships and frequency of interactions with them AND him AND his wife on how his ex-wife might feel - as, let's face it, the underlying issue is that she'd likely be able to see her son and his resident children more than his non-resident children. It seems like your auntie is trying to demonstrate her solidarity with the ex by her stance, as nobody else benefits from her strict rules. You have already said MIL blames her new daughter in law for the end of the first marriage so it's clear it's a purposeful stand she is taking.

I guess I see it a 3 women who have no need to have any kind if close or personal relationship with each other. Nothing particularly complex about that. Not everyone who marries into a family is fortunate enough to develop close relationships within the family.

Did you aunt have a similar mindset when your cousin was with his first wife? Ie. not welcome her to the family and only see her grandchildren by their dad bringing them, alone, to her because she won't enter their home? I doubt it.

CMSdividend · 18/06/2021 23:34

@Tiredoftattler so what is the conflict then? How did it get to the point where both of the mothers of his children were invited but not really welcome?
How did she treat the first mother before it ended? The same as the second wife? Or did she tarnish the second wife with the same brush as the first?
Dress it up how you want but having kids is one tier, having marriage and kids is another and the second wife deserves much more respect. If your aunt doesn't give it I sure hope you do! Or do you tow the party line too?

Bibidy · 18/06/2021 23:37

I am starting to think that some people are offended because the MIl reached that conclusion before the current and ex DIL.is disengagement only an option for step moms? Would any of those people be happier if they inflicted their company upon each other?

Of course disengagement is fine for anyone, if there's a reason for it.

But from what you've said, your aunt has disengaged from any kind of relationship with her daughter-in-law purely because she disapproves of her son ending his first marriage and blames her for it. It's not like they just don't get along so don't want to spend time together. It is an entirely unilateral decision by your aunt.

Bibidy · 18/06/2021 23:43

And it's not comparable with her relationship/lack of with the ex daughter-in-law because her connection to that person is severed. She would have to go out of her way to see her now.

But she naturally would have a relationship (good or bad) with her current daughter-in-law if she allowed it, since she still sees her son and a wife would usually come along on visits too, and mother would visit her own child's home and thereby get to know their partner.

DinoHat · 19/06/2021 09:38

Disengagement does not mean refusing to have a relationship with someone, it means maintaining a relationship whilst emotionally detaching.

PurpleyBlue · 19/06/2021 11:15

Update:

It's this:

1. They want to be fair. If they are all of the kids together then on paper it's fair.

With a bit of this:

3. They want to minimize the number of weekends seeing grandchildren. Having everyone over in the same go will mean half the number of visits. it's just easier for them to be visited once as they have lots of grandchildren (including favourite grandchild) to be seeing.

And a bit of overcompensating for the divorce by focusing too much on the DSC as they want to make sure they feel included in the family and that they shouldn't feel they can't talk about their life with mum.

DH has told them that all of this is unfair on DC and me and to stop asking so many questions about their mum as it is quite possibly making DSC feel uncomfortable not knowing what their mum would be happy for them to share.

He has tried to set them right and I expect to see changes. Thanks so much for your help.

OP posts:
PurpleyBlue · 19/06/2021 11:25

But from what you've said, your aunt has disengaged from any kind of relationship with her daughter-in-law purely because she disapproves of her son ending his first marriage and blames her for it. It's not like they just don't get along so don't want to spend time together. It is an entirely unilateral decision by your aunt.

I agree, from the sounds of it 2nd wife hasn't exactly been made to feel welcome. More, you'll have to fit in with 1st wife and visit at exactly the same time.

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FishyFriday · 19/06/2021 11:44

@Tiredoftattler I'm going to suggest that you are an outsider to this situation and not a neutral outsider at that. It is very clear (and probably more so in real life) that you very much support and admire your aunt, and are determined to see her as a brilliant example of a reasonable human. That will not be lost on your cousin or his wife (and ex).

Even the way you describe everyone as appearing to be happy with the situation makes it clear that you are merely observing from a distance. If everyone is as rational as you claim, then obviously they aren't going to play out the family drama in front of their extended family and the world at large. Why do you assume that you would know how your cousins wife feels about any of this? Or what kinds of discussions and compromises there are within her marriage because of your aunt's unwillingness to build a relationship with her son's wife and the mother of his youngest child?

From the details you have given, there are big holes in your rose tinted story.

Families are full of relationships that are not chosen. We don't choose our parents or children. We certainly don't choose their spouses or friends or coworkers. Pretty much all of us do our best to build at least cordial relations with our in-laws, unless they behave in a manner that is truly unacceptable. Even then, you will find us politely putting up with hideous family members at family events, and not making them all about our internal family dramas.

From the account you have given, your aunt has clearly never made any attempt to build a relationship with her DIL. The extended family (you) know that she blames her for the break down of her son's first marriage and has refused to build a relationship with her on that basis. Yes, I'm sure the DIL probably doesn't feel that spending time with the woman would enhance her life. But she's had a hostile MIL from the outset.

Given that your aunt has failed to build a relationship with her first DIL. It looks like a bit of a pattern in which she is incapable of accepting that, as the mother of an adult child, it is not up to her to judge and police his relationship choices. When your kids grow up, you need to accept the choices they make whether you personal like their partners or choices. You do your best to respect their partners and to accept that they are part of your life.

It is not acceptable for any MIL to decide that her grandchildren's mothers are merely vessels that brought them into the world and extraneous to her purposes. What you seem desperate to describe as treating both the mothers 'equally' is very clearly a dismissal of their role and a total failure to recognise the difference between your son's wife - who IS socially and legally a key part of his life - and his ex. It is never a neutral act, especially not when the entire family knows she disapproves of her DIL and blames her for a divorce.

None of the actual details sound like the kind of mature and reasonable 'detachment' that works for everyone you are determined to see it as. Indeed your comparison to and implied criticism of the much less 'cordial' relationships people are describing here are deeply unfair and miss the point. What you are hearing here is the thoughts and feelings and issues that are raised behind closed doors when women are faced with hostile MILs who think it is at all acceptable for them to decide what is and is not 'fair' for grandchildren in a blended family (rather than those children's parents).

It's not at all unreasonable to suggest that behind the public face of your cousin's marriage in your family, there will be strong feelings about his mother's choices, attitudes and behaviours.

My ex's parents are really lovely, welcoming people. I adored having them as in-laws and had a very close relationship with them. In fact, losing that was a big blow in the breakdown of our relationship. We are still friendly, but we all recognise that the primary relationship needs to be between them, their son and (through that) their grandson. He has to be able to move on and obviously they should see his new partner as part of the family in ways I just am not. It would not be fair to my ex, or his partner, for them to invite me to Christmases etc. If he has more children with her, then we will not simply be just mothers of their grandchildren. She would be their DIL and part of the family; I'm not part of the family any more. Recognising that doesn't disrespect me as DS's mother. But failing to recognise it, would disrespect my ex, his partner and their relationship.

FishyFriday · 19/06/2021 11:46

@PurpleyBlue

Update:

It's this:

1. They want to be fair. If they are all of the kids together then on paper it's fair.

With a bit of this:

3. They want to minimize the number of weekends seeing grandchildren. Having everyone over in the same go will mean half the number of visits. it's just easier for them to be visited once as they have lots of grandchildren (including favourite grandchild) to be seeing.

And a bit of overcompensating for the divorce by focusing too much on the DSC as they want to make sure they feel included in the family and that they shouldn't feel they can't talk about their life with mum.

DH has told them that all of this is unfair on DC and me and to stop asking so many questions about their mum as it is quite possibly making DSC feel uncomfortable not knowing what their mum would be happy for them to share.

He has tried to set them right and I expect to see changes. Thanks so much for your help.

That sounds positive. Your DH seems to be taking charge of the situation as best he can.
JackieQueen · 19/06/2021 13:18

So the stepchildrens mother can't be mentioned in your presence? That's gonna make them feel bad. She's not just got to disappear because you are now on the scene, she still exists however much you'd like her not to! The kids love their mum like yours love you, seems unfair to expect others to just stop acknowledging her.

FishyFriday · 19/06/2021 13:26

@JackieQueen

So the stepchildrens mother can't be mentioned in your presence? That's gonna make them feel bad. She's not just got to disappear because you are now on the scene, she still exists however much you'd like her not to! The kids love their mum like yours love you, seems unfair to expect others to just stop acknowledging her.
That's what you took from this?

No one is telling them never to mention their mother. In fact, the children's father had asked his mother to stop making the conversation all about their mother because it is making the children uncomfortable.

PurpleyBlue · 19/06/2021 13:54

What? In my situation?! Maybe I didn't make my posts clear enough.

stop asking so many questions about their mum as it is quite possibly making DSC feel uncomfortable not knowing what their mum would be happy for them to share. by this bit I mean DH feels sometimes they question them too much about her and they sometimes claim up a bit not knowing how much their mum wants their in laws to know. He hasn't said don't ever mention her! Just a simple "how is mum" allows them to share exactly what they are comfortable. I don't care if they talk about her, it would be weird for them not to. Just not to the extent they do, it's making everyone uncomfortable.

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PurpleyBlue · 19/06/2021 13:55

And I don't care either way that she exists.

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FishyFriday · 19/06/2021 20:04

@PurpleyBlue

And I don't care either way that she exists.
Don't worry. It's just one of those cliches that gets trotted out here all the time.
LunaLula83 · 20/06/2021 06:39

Have you said something like, but we can still come with zoe, your other grandchild.

LunaLula83 · 20/06/2021 06:41

Or hey granny, would you like to come for coffee, zoe wants to show you her new dress

CMSdividend · 20/06/2021 08:23

So what happens today for you all if you don't have DSC? Do you have to postpone going to visit FIL?
I've booked lunch for me, OH and our kids (separate and joint). I'm popping up to see my dad shortly, when he goes to collect DSS, an 80 min round trip. I haven't asked him whether he's seeing his dad but I suspect he'll collect DSS, go to his parents then come and we'll go off for lunch. And there'll still be no mention of our DD and them seeing her, and he won't mention her either of ask for the apology he said he'd get.

CMSdividend · 20/06/2021 08:29

@PurpleyBlue I'm glad your DH was able to articulate what they issue was. Let's hope that they have listened, and they're not the sort to tell anyone who listens that you are dictating what they can and cannot talk about.
However, how often did they see DC before your DH and his ex split? They say they want to be fair but if when DH was married the DC had more of an organic relationship with them, and she popped in a lot or they went out to parks etc then it's not fair "on paper" if SC have already chalked up more GP time at the same age if that makes sense?

PurpleyBlue · 20/06/2021 08:44

CMSdividend yeah makes sense. I think circumstances have changed a lot since the DSC were young though so I'm happy with things how they are. And just hope it changes a bit now!

FishyFriday thanks I was worried I'd somehow given the impression I didn't want the Ex to exist!

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FishyFriday · 20/06/2021 11:53

@PurpleyBlue it's just a default assumption that comes up all the time on here. If you object to anything about the ex or anything not centring around the ex (how she does thing/how she feels/what she wants) then you must be hideously jealous and need to be put in your place because 'she's not going anywhere'. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@CMSdividend Thats such a shame that he just can't/won't challenge his parents on their crappy attitude and behaviour. It is their loss though. They miss out on your wonderful DD.

PurpleyBlue · 20/06/2021 12:08

'she's not going anywhere'. 🤷🏻‍♀️ that's so weird. Where is it she could go?!

Thanks so much for the support everyone

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CMSdividend · 29/06/2021 17:53

How's it been @PurpleyBlue ? Any signs of change yet?

PurpleyBlue · 29/06/2021 18:43

Hi! Yes! We are off to see them next month without the DSC as they are with their mum on a relatives birthday weekend. Let's see if this continues!

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CMSdividend · 03/07/2021 16:09

Ah that's great @PurpleyBlue , really hope this is the start of the turnaround for you.
No change here, as suspected DSS was taken to toxic PIL after he got picked up then we went to our own Father's Day meal. OH fully back in contact with his parents, hasn't addressed the issues and they still haven't asked to see our DD (which OH said would be the point that he would say no unless they apologise to me). Either they've asked and he didn't mention it, or they're not bothered about her. I've just picked up DSS as OH is working, popped into work and OH said to him they can go dirtbiking tomorrow. OH hasn't seen DD for more than an hour total this week.

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