Advice needed on a 5 year old

[emg1988]

Hi, I've just joined here and I'm looking for a bit of advice please. Apologies if this has been mentioned in any previous posts, I’ve had a look but there are so many I couldn’t find the answers to help me.

I've been with my partner since September 2020 and have been living with him since November due to the pandemic and numerous lockdowns we've had. He has two daughters: the youngest is 3 and the oldest is 5. We have the girls from Wednesday evening to Sat night/Sun morn at the moment, but this schedule changes every now and again, so the days aren’t always the same. I love both of them, but the 5-year-old often refers to me as her best friend but doesn't always listen to what I say, especially when I ask her to do something. It’s like she doesn’t see me as an adult, especially when my partner is not around. There have been occasions where he has gone out to run an errand or gone to play golf and I’m looking after the girls and have had to ask the 5-year-old to do something, but she doesn’t listen to me or she answers me back rudely or cheekily. I’ve had conversations with my partner, who is very supportive, and has tried to help but some days are obviously different to others and she mostly plays up when he is not around. Although there have been a few times where I’ve asked her to do something, and she has answered back in a rude or cheeky way and my partner has heard and told her off, but it still doesn’t seem to register with her.

I don’t know what has caused this, whether she’s just taking advantage because I’m not her mum or something, but it’s difficult because I now live with my partner permanently so I’m always around them.

When I first met the girls, she was trying her luck with everything because I was a new person to her, but it still feels like she is like this sometimes so it’s really hard to deal with, without getting so frustrated. It can also be stressful, emotional, and sometimes affects my anxiety.

Any advice from anyone who has been in this situation or is currently in a similar situation would be most helpful and greatly appreciated. Happy to answer any further questions, just didn't want to put too much in here! TIA

Interesting points @Bibidy , I found your post honest and endearing, you seem like a lovely step mum 🥰

Aww thanks TheSilence! I try my best x

@Bibidy

Kids are not perfect. Many kids are demanding, attention seeking, rude at times, manipulative, disobedient etc... Parents accept it a lot if it and j deed, most kids grow out if their poor behaviour once they come to adulthood. SCs though are often expected to be problem free kids, who should adjust, be grateful, happy with it all, always polite, etc...

I don't think SCs are expected to be problem-free by step-parents, more that those problems are far harder to endure or put aside when they're not your kids. Which is why people post on here, because it can be overwhelming.

That's the crux of the issue - most SPs are just good people trying to do their best but it is insanely hard to have to deal with all of these (I agree, normal for the most part) behaviours when you don't have the cushion of love that parents have for that child.

To use your analogy, if there was an AIBU saying "DS has a school friend who comes over for playdates, but he spends the majority of the time crying/pretending to cry in order to force DS to play only the games he likes or give him toys he wants even though it's DS's turn, and his dad who comes with him just there and lets it happen. It's awful listening to all the crying and whining every time they come" people would overwhelmingly be behind the poster just not inviting that child again/as often, because they can imagine how difficult it is to be around that behaviour when you can't step in yourself to stop it. It is difficult behaviour to endure even for parents who love that child more than anything!

But SPs have go through that over and over and over and the option isn't there to just not see them as much, as it is for most people who spend time with children who aren't their own. So I think it's totally natural that SPs would have a lot of frustration and might come on here to vent in order to have a shoulder to cry on from people who have experienced similar, which they may not have in real life. It doesn't mean that they are unkind to the children when they're with them.

That's a really good example.

Not least because it has the added difficulty that the SM is put in a position where she cannot protect her own child in his/her own home. And it's not just a hour or two once a week/fortnight. It might be 30/40/50% of the time, or even more.

@Bibidy

Kids are not perfect. Many kids are demanding, attention seeking, rude at times, manipulative, disobedient etc... Parents accept it a lot if it and j deed, most kids grow out if their poor behaviour once they come to adulthood. SCs though are often expected to be problem free kids, who should adjust, be grateful, happy with it all, always polite, etc...

I don't think SCs are expected to be problem-free by step-parents, more that those problems are far harder to endure or put aside when they're not your kids. Which is why people post on here, because it can be overwhelming.

That's the crux of the issue - most SPs are just good people trying to do their best but it is insanely hard to have to deal with all of these (I agree, normal for the most part) behaviours when you don't have the cushion of love that parents have for that child.

To use your analogy, if there was an AIBU saying "DS has a school friend who comes over for playdates, but he spends the majority of the time crying/pretending to cry in order to force DS to play only the games he likes or give him toys he wants even though it's DS's turn, and his dad who comes with him just there and lets it happen. It's awful listening to all the crying and whining every time they come" people would overwhelmingly be behind the poster just not inviting that child again/as often, because they can imagine how difficult it is to be around that behaviour when you can't step in yourself to stop it. It is difficult behaviour to endure even for parents who love that child more than anything!

But SPs have go through that over and over and over and the option isn't there to just not see them as much, as it is for most people who spend time with children who aren't their own. So I think it's totally natural that SPs would have a lot of frustration and might come on here to vent in order to have a shoulder to cry on from people who have experienced similar, which they may not have in real life. It doesn't mean that they are unkind to the children when they're with them.

Very well put.

@Mumbo1234

Christ, why are people so nasty and judgmental?!

OP was asking for advice, not for opinions on her relationship.

Yes, by some standards they have moved in quickly BUT we are in the middle of a pandemic with lockdown situations. Cut them some slack...adults including parents are allows a life!

Leaving them alone with an dads gf the odd time isn’t going to do harm. It might even help bond. People use babysitters that their children don’t know nearly as well.

Can’t people be supportive that OP is actually TRYING with her SC?

Step mums are damned if they do and damned if they don’t...

She is not a "Stepmum" but his new girlfriend who he hardly knows.

If these were my kids i would be concerned that my ex lacks the ability or awareness of the children's safety and their feelings being left with a stranger whilst he fucks off and plays golf. It's not your job to parent them or look after them.

And no I have not read through the thread but currently reading through now.

@SakuraEdenSwan1 but your concern would be about your ex and his judgement. That's really where anyone's anger about this situation should be directed.

Can't believe this thread is still rumbling on long after OP has left.

I don't think SCs are expected to be problem-free by step-parents, more that those problems are far harder to endure or put aside when they're not your kids
I totally agree with the latter part but not the first.

I completely totally get that dealing with difficult behaviour from a child who is not yours is extremely difficult if not impossible.

However, so many posts turn into what should be done so the child changes their behaviour, often described in a very negative manner, and how their father and even the ex should make significant changes to the way they are educating the children to accommodate the SM and the fact that they don't like the child/child's behaviour rather than considering how they can change their own behaviour to make the situation more bearable the way it is for the parents.

Ultimately, we go back to the same thing over and over. Some kids can only really be liked and appreciated by their own parents and SPs should be should think twice s out entering into a committed relationship with a men with such children.

It's rare that a SM actions or thoughts can change a SC and make them more likable. In most instances, it results in conflict with the dad stick in between, understanding the difficulties his partner is facing, but also wanting to protect his kids and their right to be loved and appreciated for who they are, not who they should be to suit.

I have certainly bites the correlation between problems with SCs and the timescale by which the relationship between SM and father has evolved as is the case here.

Of course it's not always the case and many kids are lovely and problem free and very likable, in which case, it's not an issue, but a number of kids aren't, and the outcome of separation, transition, insecurities, conflict and confusion will certainly impact on many SCs making it more likely to be 'dificult' kids.

Ultimately, we go back to the same thing over and over. Some kids can only really be liked and appreciated by their own parents and SPs should be should think twice s out entering into a committed relationship with a men with such children. It's rare that a SM actions or thoughts can change a SC and make them more likable.

Yes, for everyone's sake it would be great if such relationships were avoided, but the trouble is that, as is evidenced by this thread, people are generally expected to wait a year or even years before they meet the kids when in a relationship with their dad, who are seldom honest when their kids are really hard work/hard to like. So the result is you are expecting step parents to invest in a relationship, only to walk away when they meet the kids and they couldn't be described as "problem free", which realistically won't always happen both because of emotional investment, and because it's pretty ingrained in people that it's not ok to say "you know what having met your kids, I actually think they're brats". The pressure to grow to love them is insurmountable.

So yes it would be best for everyone if parents with really challenging kids didn't bring on board step parents that struggle with the kids behaviour, but a lot could be achieved if they took responsibility for that themselves and were honest and realistic about their kids, rather than deeply defensive to any criticism, beforehand.

Regardless, though, I can't see how any of this applies to cases like OPs? This five year old is hardly going to be bent out of shape to "suit the SM" by being taught to respect adults in charge/babysitters. A lot of the time the "change" the SM is supposedly initiating is just perfectly normal stuff, as in this case. If you are expecting SPs to "consider how they can change themselves instead" rather than addressing or having any form of involvement or opinion on even simple behavioural matters like this, then it doubly begs the question of why any SP should bother with a relationship with someone with kids.

The sort of threads you're talking about, which would even come close to "the dad and even ex being expected to make significant changes to how the kids are raised to accommodate the SM" are surely just serious cases of violence etc? I mean even then, I'm struggling to think of any examples where the ex is expected to make any changes at all....

@aSofaNearYou are you a SC? Because I am. And I can tell you without question that there is a tremendous amount of pressure on step children to 'perform'. Not necessarily by the parent, either. We know that one foot in the wrong direction one bad mood one slip up in behaviour one bad day, and it could end our parents new relationship. Because the SP (many of them anyway) doesn't love the SC as they would their own, and as is seen often on these boards clearly doesn't think they have any responsibility towards their step child. I'm not talking ALL step parents btw, but by the amount of people on this board who say don't worry about the DC they're not your problem, it's clearly in high numbers.

ALL children have bad days, the difference is they know that they'll never be blamed for their parents splitting up, but as I've seen on these boards they ARE blamed for the end of a parents new relationship- even if not to their faces, they know it was because they hadn't 'behaved' well enough for someone who was once a stranger to them and ultimately becomes a stranger again.

@KurtWilde No I'm not a SC. I can't argue with your experience but I can say it's nothing like mine. My SC has no awareness that he needs to behave better to be loved by me, he believes himself to he unconditionally loved by everybody. He certainly doesn't have "one bad day", he has many, and he's never experienced a parents relationship with a step parent ending either. None of that is familiar at all.

But I am curious to know what your underlying point is?

But I am curious to know what your underlying point is?

That there should be a separate board for StepChildren? Where they can work out their therapy amongst themselves, instead of battering new stepmothers when they are at their frailest point?

I'm also a step mother, so I can see it from both points of view. The fact is that at 2 months into knowing these children, the OP just isn't in step mum territory yet. She's dads new partner. I had that applied to me for over a year before I really considered (and was considered it by DPs kids and family), and whilst it's great she's embracing it she's ALREADY finding the 5yo challenging.

And my point @aSofaNearYou is that whether subconsciously or not, there is extra pressure put on SC to behave well for a new person who might not even be in their lives for long.

And no, no therapy required here. My experience as a SC was thankfully a positive one for the most part, but not so much for the children I've worked with over the years who often felt hugely under pressure to not wreck their parents new relationship and often acted up BECAUSE of that pressure.

My SC never had any pressure put on them, and even now I'm not in their dads life anymore we still keep in touch. So I'm not saying ALL SP or ALL SC, I'm simply saying that if OP is already finding fault with her DPs daughter, and perhaps the DD is playing up because this is an entirely new person thrust on her and she's not comfortable with that. And that's a perfectly normal reaction from a child and can manifest in many different ways.

The fact is that at 2 months into knowing these children, the OP just isn't in step mum territory yet.

She is walking the walk, so what else is it? A long audition for the job?

@SpaceshiptoMars most SP don't call themselves a step mum after a couple of months. And yes, I think it is a long audition for the job if you intend to do it properly. You don't just turn up and expect to be accepted as a new parent ffs.

@KurtWilde

I'm also a step mother, so I can see it from both points of view. The fact is that at 2 months into knowing these children, the OP just isn't in step mum territory yet. She's dads new partner. I had that applied to me for over a year before I really considered (and was considered it by DPs kids and family), and whilst it's great she's embracing it she's ALREADY finding the 5yo challenging.

And my point @aSofaNearYou is that whether subconsciously or not, there is extra pressure put on SC to behave well for a new person who might not even be in their lives for long.

And no, no therapy required here. My experience as a SC was thankfully a positive one for the most part, but not so much for the children I've worked with over the years who often felt hugely under pressure to not wreck their parents new relationship and often acted up BECAUSE of that pressure.

Perhaps there is pressure in some cases, as I said it's certainly not anywhere close to the dynamic in my family. But then a lot of the things people on here say step children WILL be aware of and pick up on I honestly do not believe mine does, he is not a very observant kid by nature. I would question whether a 5 year old would feel pressure not to wreck their parents new relationship, when they might not even be aware how adult relationships work yet, but I guess that depends on the kid. My nearly 8 year old step son was surprised to find out people don't tend to only have one girlfriend in their whole life the other day, despite having experienced his parents break up. The penny has not dropped in that regard.

I'm not sure about all these SP who are supposedly breaking up with their long term partners after one day of bad behaviour from the SK. Doesn't seem all that likely, unless the "behaviour" was something a bit more problematic. If a parent is going to punish their children for ruining their "new" relationships with minor bad behaviour then that is surely a parent problem?

[quote KurtWilde]@SpaceshiptoMars most SP don't call themselves a step mum after a couple of months. And yes, I think it is a long audition for the job if you intend to do it properly. You don't just turn up and expect to be accepted as a new parent ffs. [/quote]
If you said the same in reverse there would be lynch mobs.

I completely totally get that dealing with difficult behaviour from a child who is not yours is extremely difficult if not impossible.

However, so many posts turn into what should be done so the child changes their behaviour, often described in a very negative manner, and how their father and even the ex should make significant changes to the way they are educating the children to accommodate the SM and the fact that they don't like the child/child's behaviour rather than considering how they can change their own behaviour to make the situation more bearable the way it is for the parents.

Ultimately, we go back to the same thing over and over. Some kids can only really be liked and appreciated by their own parents and SPs should be should think twice s out entering into a committed relationship with a men with such children.

See I don't necessarily agree with this. I don't think it's usually the case that the child can only be liked and appreciated by their own parents - although obviously there will be some! It's not really much to do with the actual child at all, but more that SPs do often end up entering situation where less than great patterns or behaviours have been allowed to develop, usually by an NRP who just wants everything to be all about fun whenever they have their kids.

A lot of the posts I read on here are not SPs making massively unreasonable demands to suit themselves - although again, there are some - but just people trying to cope in situations where children aren't being parented in a 'normal' way and it hugely affects everyone else in the house, which is even more of an issue when the SP has children of their own as well.

In these scenarios I really think that it's not reasonable to expect the SP to adapt themselves to the way the parents are running things, when for instance that might include an 11-year-old child staying up past midnight resulting in the SP unable to go to bed until then either (my own scenario due to sleeping arrangements) or a child who has become used to sleeping in bed with their single parent every night and therefore now tries to climb into bed with the SP, which they aren't comfortable with.

SPs should be should think twice s out entering into a committed relationship with a men with such children

I do agree with this, but I guess as Sofa said above, by the time most people spend significant time with the children they are well down the line in their relationship with their partner so not willing to walk away. For example, my SCs are lovely but if they weren't, it would have been a good 3 years into my relationship that I really experienced it as I rarely stayed over with them before we moved in together.

Also re use of the term 'stepmum', I think most people just use it for sake of ease rather than to reflect any closeness of relationship.

people are generally expected to wait a year or even years before they meet the kids when in a relationship with their dad
Indeed, this is something I don't agree with. When I met my partner, we both agreed for him to meet my kids very early on for that exact reason. It became clear we were falling in love yet knew that nothing could develop if him and the kids didn't gel.

It was all about reassuring my kids that yes mummy has met someone new, no we we were not going to move in together soon, and no, I didn't know if we would stay together forever for I had a good incline. He was the first I felt things could progress further after being separated 5 years. We still took things slowly and didn't move in for another 18 months so all had time to be prepared for it.

where less than great patterns or behaviours have been allowed to develop, usually by an NRP who just wants everything to be all about fun whenever they have their kids
That's the exact point. If that's how a SM feels entering into the relationship, then it's likely doomed anyway. The only two options is either to accept the seemingly poor behaviour, ideally letting the nrp to deal with it, or to convince the nrp that he badly raiding his kids and need to make changes.

Sometimes they do. Sometimes they do see it's for the best, sometimes they do it only to appease the SM and build resentment quietly.

Often they just don't want to change their ways because they indeed don't believe they are doing anything wrong and it just comes down to one opinion against another.

where less than great patterns or behaviours have been allowed to develop, usually by an NRP who just wants everything to be all about fun whenever they have their kids

That's the exact point. If that's how a SM feels entering into the relationship, then it's likely doomed anyway. The only two options is either to accept the seemingly poor behaviour, ideally letting the nrp to deal with it, or to convince the nrp that he badly raiding his kids and need to make changes.

Sometimes they do. Sometimes they do see it's for the best, sometimes they do it only to appease the SM and build resentment quietly.

Often they just don't want to change their ways because they indeed don't believe they are doing anything wrong and it just comes down to one opinion against another.

I get what you're saying here and you're right that sometimes the parent takes it on board and sometimes they don't etc.

I just genuinely don't see how the SP is at fault for trying to change things that are actually not right or healthy for the household? Including for the children in question. Which is often why SPs post on here and as you said, look for advice on how to change their partner/the child's behaviour on certain things.

I just feel like even if you're a parent, if you invite someone (who you presumably love and care about) to live together then they are of equal consequence and their feelings and boundaries matter just as much. I don't think the SP should just have to accept everything 'as is' just because the other person has a child already, and definitely feel that the parent sometimes will need to make adjustments based on the fact that they are living with someone who isn't their child's other parent.

Thing is, @dontdisturbmenow, things change over time.

You might meet a man with children aged 2 and 4 and be willing to adapt/put up with choices made before you came along. But I'm not sure that the same 'well who are you to insist on changes to behaviour you find intolerable' years later when you've got a 9 and 11 year old with no bedtimes or boundaries.

Do SMs just get no say over what happens in their own homes forever more? What kind of relationship can it be if a man doesn't care enough about his partner to take her into account as he adapts his parenting over time?

I just genuinely don't see how the SP is at fault for trying to change things that are actually not right or healthy for the household?
Because who says that SM is the one whose for the right view of what is healthy?

A woman who believes in being careful with the household budget and the importance in saving is unlikely to be happy with an who believes in enjoying the moment and spending all his monthly income. No one is right or wrong. Sometimes one can be influence one way but most of the time, it just come down to not being compatible.

It's the same with the way what considers to be healthy or not, acceptable behaviour or not, but ultimately, just like you can't demand how one spends their own money, you can't demand a parent to raise their kids differently when they don't see anything wrong with their ways.

No one on here has said they demanded that their partner parents the way they want. What has been said and a point of view I completly agree with is a relationship is a partnership and adults should be able to have a rational discussion about the boundaries and rules of kids living withing a home. The SP has the right to put forth their opinion and for that to be discussed.
In this thread the childs father disapproves of her behaviour and has pulled her up on being rude so it's not the SP coming in and demanding that everyone in the house does x, y and a.

It's the same with the way what considers to be healthy or not, acceptable behaviour or not, but ultimately, just like you can't demand how one spends their own money, you can't demand a parent to raise their kids differently when they don't see anything wrong with their ways.

Is one somehow not obliged to think about, never mind talk to and work with, their partner because they have children from a previous relationship?

I have made various changes and compromises in my parenting and rules because of my husband. If I want to, for example, make DS's bedtime later than it currently is, should I just do it unilaterally (he is my son so it's just about what I think is right) or should I discuss it with my husband and try to agree something that works for everyone?

Tbh, if I didn't consult him, I'd come up against the whole 'this is my house too; I will have a say in what happens'. That would be fair enough if (sadly) it worked both ways. But apparently it only applies where decisions are about or affect my (resident) children; it doesn't apply to his (nonresident) ones. Then it's all 'my children; my rules', regardless the effect his children and his rules have on anyone else. 🙄