Advice needed on a 5 year old

[emg1988]

Hi, I've just joined here and I'm looking for a bit of advice please. Apologies if this has been mentioned in any previous posts, I’ve had a look but there are so many I couldn’t find the answers to help me.

I've been with my partner since September 2020 and have been living with him since November due to the pandemic and numerous lockdowns we've had. He has two daughters: the youngest is 3 and the oldest is 5. We have the girls from Wednesday evening to Sat night/Sun morn at the moment, but this schedule changes every now and again, so the days aren’t always the same. I love both of them, but the 5-year-old often refers to me as her best friend but doesn't always listen to what I say, especially when I ask her to do something. It’s like she doesn’t see me as an adult, especially when my partner is not around. There have been occasions where he has gone out to run an errand or gone to play golf and I’m looking after the girls and have had to ask the 5-year-old to do something, but she doesn’t listen to me or she answers me back rudely or cheekily. I’ve had conversations with my partner, who is very supportive, and has tried to help but some days are obviously different to others and she mostly plays up when he is not around. Although there have been a few times where I’ve asked her to do something, and she has answered back in a rude or cheeky way and my partner has heard and told her off, but it still doesn’t seem to register with her.

I don’t know what has caused this, whether she’s just taking advantage because I’m not her mum or something, but it’s difficult because I now live with my partner permanently so I’m always around them.

When I first met the girls, she was trying her luck with everything because I was a new person to her, but it still feels like she is like this sometimes so it’s really hard to deal with, without getting so frustrated. It can also be stressful, emotional, and sometimes affects my anxiety.

Any advice from anyone who has been in this situation or is currently in a similar situation would be most helpful and greatly appreciated. Happy to answer any further questions, just didn't want to put too much in here! TIA

@SpaceshiptoMars People are always so, so harsh on step-parent threads. Regardless of what the actual issue is in the OP, so many just come here to attack rather than offer any useful advice about the topic at hand.

So why oh why, when we are here with a clearly well-intentioned person who has acted perfectly honourably - do we not accord her the same rights? Why does anyone feel the need to project their own situation and bad stuff on to her innocent life? What harm has she done anyone?

It never ceases to amaze me what people think is a perfectly normal and justifiable tone with which to talk to people on here.

If 30 kids in a playground stood around 1 child and called them selfish,
inconsiderate and cruel repeatedly for something which is not there responsability ( it's the parents responsability not to move in with a new partner not the stepparents) it would be classed as bullying.
If half the office ganged up on someone to write emails stating the same as above on a regular basis and dismiss any objection as being unable to take criticism it would be classed as bullying.
Online bullying is very much a thing. No not the same as physical abuse but that doesnt take away the fact that it is classed as a form of bullying and harassment and in teens and those growing up in the digital age it is believed to contribute to depression and suicide in the same manner as schoolyard bullying. I would hope as adults we could model better behaviour.

OP mumsnet is a good place for some advice but take everything with a pinch of salt.

Well said @Aimee1987

Well, I’m out of this thread not worth the hassle

I think it’s clear that however delicately we had worded things the op won’t accept that the way they handled the situation was poorly considered, and is unlikely to do what is imo necessary for the well-being of the children here.

It’s incredibly sad and worrying that these two children appear not to be being prioritised by any of the parental figures in their lives. I find that extremely concerning

But as I said I’m out.

Tbh after six months the OP should only just be meeting the children, never mind having them to stay over.

But as someone who is childless it’s understandable that OP might not have considered that as she’s invested in the relationship, and other people’s children aren’t necessarily considered in the same way as if you have your own, iyswim.

The partner on the other hand should know better. Moving his GF in within a couple of months, having the kids over to stay and then going out leaving his new partner at home doing the childcare for his children.

Sounds like both the biological parents here are atrocious parents, and the OP is being taken for a mug.

@HeartsAndClubs

Tbh after six months the OP should only just be meeting the children, never mind having them to stay over.

But as someone who is childless it’s understandable that OP might not have considered that as she’s invested in the relationship, and other people’s children aren’t necessarily considered in the same way as if you have your own, iyswim.

The partner on the other hand should know better. Moving his GF in within a couple of months, having the kids over to stay and then going out leaving his new partner at home doing the childcare for his children.

Sounds like both the biological parents here are atrocious parents, and the OP is being taken for a mug.

Ok so alot of posters have said this but what do you propose as the solution now. They have been living with the OP for 6 months and have built what sounds like a good relationship with her. So rather then criticise previous actions how would you help the OP in moving forward? Which was the question on the thread.

Clearly OP is beyond criticism, and she's got a nice little army of posters who are happy to pander to someone who shouldn't even be calling herself a stepmum yet, because it's way too soon. But whatever. Damage is done.

I was a stepmum for many years and still have a good relationship with my SC. You can be damned sure that the minute I realised things were getting serious with their dad I managed to have some bloody empathy towards how it might affect his DC, because that's just normal human decency. It's a tricky transition, and their happiness and stability was prioritised because that's the fair thing to do.

I'm sick of seeing kids' coming so far down the list of priorities on threads like this. Yeah the kids are the responsibility of the DP, but no one should take on the role of step parent if they're not willing to at least take some responsibility for the happiness of the children involved. I'm out.

Clearly OP is beyond criticism, and she's got a nice little army of posters who are happy to pander to someone who shouldn't even be calling herself a stepmum yet, because it's way too soon. But whatever. Damage is done.

Oh please, you can call people out for mentioning bullying and abuse, but anyone that agrees with OP that the responses have been too harsh is "an army of posters"? Massive double standard.

I was the first to point out that the set up isn't right. I just don't agree at all with the way she has been spoken to since, and the level of accountability for that decision that has been laid at her door. We are not a hive mind or an army, many of us just don't agree with you 🙄

I’ve been reading this board for a few months now, and find it really interesting and always learn things, but I’ve noticed there’s a few posters who ALWAYS without fail will agree with the step parent, in every single situation. Any criticism of the OP, if they’re a step parent, will result in these same posters saying that you can’t say anything on here without being bashed as a step parent (let’s be honest, usually step mums).

I honestly haven’t seen bullying or abuse on here, even in an online context, and I think the OP’s replies have actually come across as quite rude.

On this thread I mean, I’ve actually seen some very nasty posts on other threads, both from step parents and non step parents.

@TheSilence

I’ve been reading this board for a few months now, and find it really interesting and always learn things, but I’ve noticed there’s a few posters who ALWAYS without fail will agree with the step parent, in every single situation. Any criticism of the OP, if they’re a step parent, will result in these same posters saying that you can’t say anything on here without being bashed as a step parent (let’s be honest, usually step mums).

I honestly haven’t seen bullying or abuse on here, even in an online context, and I think the OP’s replies have actually come across as quite rude.

People will always feel differently about this based on their own personal bias. I don't think this thread is the worst example of it by a long mile but repeated comments from the same posters about how selfish, immature and idiotic she must be, and how this decision is her fault alongside her partner's, definitely do cross the line for me. Especially the extremely long, excessive rants from Graphista, but then those are the comments you specifically agreed with.

There are posters who will almost always defend the step parent but then there are also many who will almost always vilify them. It is a double standard to say one exists and not the other.

@TheSilence

I’ve been reading this board for a few months now, and find it really interesting and always learn things, but I’ve noticed there’s a few posters who ALWAYS without fail will agree with the step parent, in every single situation. Any criticism of the OP, if they’re a step parent, will result in these same posters saying that you can’t say anything on here without being bashed as a step parent (let’s be honest, usually step mums).

I honestly haven’t seen bullying or abuse on here, even in an online context, and I think the OP’s replies have actually come across as quite rude.

I find I do end up arguing step parent corner alot. However the reason is sometimes I just find the responses too harsh and making an OP feel bad often wont help their relationship with the child. I try to offer constructive ideas on how to adress the problem posted. I didnt see the need for multiple posters repeating over and over that she made a mistake. If she was considering it then yes highlighting the pitfall would be beneficial however she is now in the situation and for the most part if the worse she is experiencing is some relatively typical behaviour of a 5 year old pushing boundaries then she is lucky. The only constructive criticism I saw was that she shouldn't be minding the kids while he plays golf. Which she took on board and addressed. But by not jumping on the you moved in too soon bandwagon I got referred to one of the army of posters immediately jumping to her defence. Also those army of posters defending her have also highlighted the issues. But acknowledge that they are flaws of the parents not the OPs.

@aSofaNearYou Yes I totally agree, we all bring our own unique perspective to most threads, and I’ve also seen on other threads some awful posts towards stepmums which are uncalled for and spiteful. I just haven’t noticed the same repeated names, which I have when looking at the other side. Just an observation really.

I’m not a stepmum, just a regular mum (don’t know the correct term for this?!!), but I grew up with a stepdad who made life difficult, and I have friends who are stepmums with difficult ‘first wives’ to deal with, so I honestly try to see both sides.

I did agree with Graphista’s first post but her second was deleted, so it can’t have been within the guidelines - totally not ok.

@Aimee1987 Yep you’re right it’s been said enough times now that the situation isn’t ideal, and absolutely true that no one will take much on board if they’re yelled at online and called names!! The OP said she’d sorted this out and she wouldn’t be left in charge with the daughter again, but then in the beginning of the thread that was specifically what she wanted advice with! So it doesn’t make sense. Also I still maintain she wasn’t bullied and abused on this thread, she just didn’t like the answers.

You’re right though, ultimately it’s the mum and dad here who are fault, no thought given to their kids about what might be disruptive to them.

TheSilence, I am the same as Amy. I tend to find myself on fighting the step-parent's corner on here more often than not as I feel like there can be a real lack of understanding and compassion in the responses on here at times.

SP OPs so often get attacked by posters who just don't consider their situation, feelings or point of view at all and pretty much tell them that their feelings don't matter, all that matters is the children. I feel like lots of people who post on here don't have any experience of the reality of being a step-parent/partner of someone with children, and that's why their replies are so harsh.

I definitely wouldn't say I always agree with the step-parents, but I would say that when I respond I do try and offer advice/support on the actual situation at hand, whereas so many come here and just say "well you knew what you were getting into" or "I'd be disgusted if a man put his relationship with me above his children" or "keep your nose out of it, it's nothing to do with you", or in this case "you shouldn't even have met the kids yet, let alone be living with your partner". It just isn't helpful and I can see why someone would feel upset by getting loads of responses of that kind.

I have to admit though, a lot of threads on mumsnet seem to go that way, with people just bashing other's life choices and not actually offering any real help or suggestions, so it's not isolated totally to the SP section.

Sorry, *Aimee!

@Bibidy

TheSilence, I am the same as Amy. I tend to find myself on fighting the step-parent's corner on here more often than not as I feel like there can be a real lack of understanding and compassion in the responses on here at times.

SP OPs so often get attacked by posters who just don't consider their situation, feelings or point of view at all and pretty much tell them that their feelings don't matter, all that matters is the children. I feel like lots of people who post on here don't have any experience of the reality of being a step-parent/partner of someone with children, and that's why their replies are so harsh.

I definitely wouldn't say I always agree with the step-parents, but I would say that when I respond I do try and offer advice/support on the actual situation at hand, whereas so many come here and just say "well you knew what you were getting into" or "I'd be disgusted if a man put his relationship with me above his children" or "keep your nose out of it, it's nothing to do with you", or in this case "you shouldn't even have met the kids yet, let alone be living with your partner". It just isn't helpful and I can see why someone would feel upset by getting loads of responses of that kind.

I have to admit though, a lot of threads on mumsnet seem to go that way, with people just bashing other's life choices and not actually offering any real help or suggestions, so it's not isolated totally to the SP section.

Bibidy I do agree with you that there’s often posters who will just parrot the same things about knowing what you get yourself into or being selfish etc, and that’s not good either.

I just wondered whether some people who do side with the step parent will do so no matter what the situation and even if they’re behaving in a way that others wouldn’t get away with. Just because there’s clearly a lot of loyalty among step parents, a “stick together” kind of vibe. That’s just what I’ve picked up on anyway, I might have totally misinterpreted!

And yes, completely agree that whatever your viewpoint, bashing someone’s choices over and over again isn’t going to really help.

As a quick other point, I find those threads about crazy things an ex has done to be quite mean. Obviously MN disagree as they’re still standing, but I keep wondering whether it would be ok if one was done about step mums and any nasty things they’ve done.

I just wondered whether some people who do side with the step parent will do so no matter what the situation and even if they’re behaving in a way that others wouldn’t get away with. Just because there’s clearly a lot of loyalty among step parents, a “stick together” kind of vibe. That’s just what I’ve picked up on anyway, I might have totally misinterpreted!

As well as Bibidy's post, which I totally agree with, I find I do agree with the step parent more often than not on here even before reading the comments, or at least agree that if they are somewhat at fault it does not merit the response they get. That latter part does have to do with the huge volume of people that leave those unhelpful breed of comments already mentioned. But I think a big part of why I so rarely disagree with step parents is that a large amount of the issues detailed, or picked out of a different query and focused on by posters, are around the central theme of whether it's ok for them to NOT do something, NOT feel something, NOT know something (as in this case). I don't believe step parents have the same responsibilities as parents, so that means the likelihood of them being reasonable on threads like that are much higher than if it were an actual parent saying it, if that makes sense.

Also, I don't absolutely always agree with step parents, and I will call them out if I think they are in the wrong. But I always agree with them more than the people who think they are monsters for even being there for whatever reason, or that they need reminding at length that they should never expect to be more than a certain place in a perceived pecking order, or that nothing short of parental adoration is acceptable from them. So in the end I do find I have no choice but to align with them against people repeatedly making those suggestions.

TheSilence - I just wondered whether some people who do side with the step parent will do so no matter what the situation and even if they’re behaving in a way that others wouldn’t get away with. Just because there’s clearly a lot of loyalty among step parents, a “stick together” kind of vibe. That’s just what I’ve picked up on anyway, I might have totally misinterpreted!

Na I think you're probably right on the 'stick together' vibe, I think because being a step-parent is such a unique and often difficult position to be in there is definitely an element of feeling a sense of kinship with those who are experiencing it too.

Realistically, people don't usually ever have to spend significant amounts of intense time with any children but their own, so it's quite a unique perspective to have and I often find friends and family (in real life) struggle to understand/empathise because it's so far from their experience - they either compare it to how they feel about their own biological children, or to nieces/nephews/friend's children who they may have to stay over a few times a year, neither of which are comparable at all.

I definitely wouldn't defend everything and anything SPs say or do on here, but I would say that I do try and make an effort offer advice kindly even when I do disagree with what they have posted. I know how hard it can be and how low you can sometimes feel when so much of your life feels out of your control.

As a quick other point, I find those threads about crazy things an ex has done to be quite mean. Obviously MN disagree as they’re still standing, but I keep wondering whether it would be ok if one was done about step mums and any nasty things they’ve done.

I can't comment on this too much as I don't have this situation myself, my DP's ex is just a nice normal woman! I haven't read that thread yet (will mosey over now) but again, I'd say that it's a situation most people don't have to deal with - having a DP who is in close contact with an ex - it's made even worse if that ex is often speaking badly about you and/or trying to sabotage your relationship, either with your partner or with her children. So I can see why people take comfort in feeling they're not alone.

Threadwise though I don't think it's out of step - there is currently a thread about what husbands have done that may end up with them buried under the patio , loads of threads about mothers-in-law and parents. I would have thought if I searched I'd be able to find some about how shocking some step-parents are...they just probably wouldn't be posted on this board .

@TheSilence
I just wondered whether some people who do side with the step parent will do so no matter what the situation and even if they’re behaving in a way that others wouldn’t get away with. Just because there’s clearly a lot of loyalty among step parents, a “stick together” kind of vibe. That’s just what I’ve picked up on anyway, I might have totally misinterpreted!

As a quick other point, I find those threads about crazy things an ex has done to be quite mean. Obviously MN disagree as they’re still standing, but I keep wondering whether it would be ok if one was done about step mums and any nasty things they’ve done.

You haven't misinterpreted. I find a lot of the threads on this forum breathtakingly mean. Not so much the ones aimed against 'exes' (which I think show mostly how naive and gullible people can be when it comes to believing male bullshit) but the ones aimed against children, which are just cruel.

On this thread you have a five-year-old described as 'taking advantage'. That's quite mild compared to others I've seen, where tiny children are described as 'manipulative', 'attention-seeking', 'narcissistic', etc. etc.

You don't have to be a step-parent or an 'ex' to think that adults speaking about children in such a nasty, bitchy, cruel, jealous, vicious, vindictive way is wrong.

*On this thread you have a five-year-old described as 'taking advantage'. That's quite mild compared to others I've seen, where tiny children are described as 'manipulative', 'attention-seeking', 'narcissistic', etc. etc.

You don't have to be a step-parent or an 'ex' to think that adults speaking about children in such a nasty, bitchy, cruel, jealous, vicious, vindictive way is wrong.*

See this is exactly the sort of thing I was describing. I don't have to agree with OP 100% to think that applying anything even close to that last paragraph to her because of the phrase "taking advantage" is absolutely ridiculous and extreme. Talk of children learning to take advantage of lack of boundaries from adults is not remotely uncommon amongst actual parents and does not warrant that response, it is not the enormous insult it is weirdly perceived as on here. People call kids "cheeky" for a reason and it isn't usually because they are evil, vindictive people who hate children.

@aSofaNearYou

When a child's parents/grandparents etc. refer to them as 'cheeky' or 'pushing their luck', etc. it's assumed that is within the context of them loving the child with all their heart, having looked after them for all or most of their lives and being willing to lay down their lives for them.

(Obviously I am not talking about abusive parental relationships here, but the majority of 'normal' ones.)

It's very obviously not the same thing as someone who only met them a couple of months ago, and would ideally prefer them not to exist at all, describing them in those terms.

Surely that difference is obvious?

The OP of this thread doesn't have the same kind of vitriol for her partner's children as I've read in other threads here, absolutely not. But she doesn't love them either. And why would she? She barely knows them.

I am saying that the way many (not all) step-parents talk about their step-children on here is appalling. They are very young children who have often been quite damaged, hurt and traumatised by their parents' separation.

To then be discussed in those vicious, unpleasant terms by another adult who is (often wrongly and prematurely) given responsibility and intimacy in their lives is just horrendous.

There was a thread on here with fake 'greetings cards' for stepmothers which was heartbreakingly awful.

*It's very obviously not the same thing as someone who only met them a couple of months ago, and would ideally prefer them not to exist at all, describing them in those terms.

Surely that difference is obvious?*

Eeerm, no, the difference is you jumping to conclusions. The vast majority of people that mention children "taking advantage" on here are not saying it as an insult and recognise this is something many children do to varying extents that just needs managing. It's not suddenly an insult because a step parent has said it. "Would ideally prefer them not to exist at all" is purely your projection, as is the rest of your comment, which is by far the most ridiculous on this thread so far.

I was on the greetings cards thread. It was a compilation of nasty, stereotypical things said TO stepmothers, by other adults. What on earth has that got to do with step mothers hating their step children and saying vicious things about them? Absolutely nothing. Textbook projection.

@aSofaNearYou

I just wondered whether some people who do side with the step parent will do so no matter what the situation and even if they’re behaving in a way that others wouldn’t get away with. Just because there’s clearly a lot of loyalty among step parents, a “stick together” kind of vibe. That’s just what I’ve picked up on anyway, I might have totally misinterpreted!

As well as Bibidy's post, which I totally agree with, I find I do agree with the step parent more often than not on here even before reading the comments, or at least agree that if they are somewhat at fault it does not merit the response they get. That latter part does have to do with the huge volume of people that leave those unhelpful breed of comments already mentioned. But I think a big part of why I so rarely disagree with step parents is that a large amount of the issues detailed, or picked out of a different query and focused on by posters, are around the central theme of whether it's ok for them to NOT do something, NOT feel something, NOT know something (as in this case). I don't believe step parents have the same responsibilities as parents, so that means the likelihood of them being reasonable on threads like that are much higher than if it were an actual parent saying it, if that makes sense.

Also, I don't absolutely always agree with step parents, and I will call them out if I think they are in the wrong. But I always agree with them more than the people who think they are monsters for even being there for whatever reason, or that they need reminding at length that they should never expect to be more than a certain place in a perceived pecking order, or that nothing short of parental adoration is acceptable from them. So in the end I do find I have no choice but to align with them against people repeatedly making those suggestions.

Fair points @aSofaNearYou and anyone jumping straight into a thread and calling a SP a monster or evil or anything like that is being ridiculous and cruel most of the time.

I realise there’s a wicked stepmother trope and it must be incredibly frustrating and hurtful to constantly be on the receiving end of that.

[quote DropDTuning]@TheSilence
I just wondered whether some people who do side with the step parent will do so no matter what the situation and even if they’re behaving in a way that others wouldn’t get away with. Just because there’s clearly a lot of loyalty among step parents, a “stick together” kind of vibe. That’s just what I’ve picked up on anyway, I might have totally misinterpreted!

As a quick other point, I find those threads about crazy things an ex has done to be quite mean. Obviously MN disagree as they’re still standing, but I keep wondering whether it would be ok if one was done about step mums and any nasty things they’ve done.

You haven't misinterpreted. I find a lot of the threads on this forum breathtakingly mean. Not so much the ones aimed against 'exes' (which I think show mostly how naive and gullible people can be when it comes to believing male bullshit) but the ones aimed against children, which are just cruel.

On this thread you have a five-year-old described as 'taking advantage'. That's quite mild compared to others I've seen, where tiny children are described as 'manipulative', 'attention-seeking', 'narcissistic', etc. etc.

You don't have to be a step-parent or an 'ex' to think that adults speaking about children in such a nasty, bitchy, cruel, jealous, vicious, vindictive way is wrong.[/quote]
Interesting points @Bibidy , I found your post honest and endearing, you seem like a lovely step mum 🥰

@DropDTuning well I’ve got to say, the points you’ve mentioned are some of the things I’ve noticed too. I’ve seen very young children being described as ‘manipulative’ and it seems sad and unfair that that’s what is assumed, rather than that this small child can’t cope with whatever situation they’ve been forced into.

Mostly though on here I get annoyed and pissed off towards the dads who leave all the parenting to the new step mum to deal with, and who can’t effectively look after their own children! They are the real problem a lot of the time and it’s sad to see mums/step mums getting angry at each other instead of at the ‘Disney dad’. - I hadn’t heard that phrase til I discovered this board, but it fits very well 😅