Advice needed on a 5 year old

[emg1988]

Hi, I've just joined here and I'm looking for a bit of advice please. Apologies if this has been mentioned in any previous posts, I’ve had a look but there are so many I couldn’t find the answers to help me.

I've been with my partner since September 2020 and have been living with him since November due to the pandemic and numerous lockdowns we've had. He has two daughters: the youngest is 3 and the oldest is 5. We have the girls from Wednesday evening to Sat night/Sun morn at the moment, but this schedule changes every now and again, so the days aren’t always the same. I love both of them, but the 5-year-old often refers to me as her best friend but doesn't always listen to what I say, especially when I ask her to do something. It’s like she doesn’t see me as an adult, especially when my partner is not around. There have been occasions where he has gone out to run an errand or gone to play golf and I’m looking after the girls and have had to ask the 5-year-old to do something, but she doesn’t listen to me or she answers me back rudely or cheekily. I’ve had conversations with my partner, who is very supportive, and has tried to help but some days are obviously different to others and she mostly plays up when he is not around. Although there have been a few times where I’ve asked her to do something, and she has answered back in a rude or cheeky way and my partner has heard and told her off, but it still doesn’t seem to register with her.

I don’t know what has caused this, whether she’s just taking advantage because I’m not her mum or something, but it’s difficult because I now live with my partner permanently so I’m always around them.

When I first met the girls, she was trying her luck with everything because I was a new person to her, but it still feels like she is like this sometimes so it’s really hard to deal with, without getting so frustrated. It can also be stressful, emotional, and sometimes affects my anxiety.

Any advice from anyone who has been in this situation or is currently in a similar situation would be most helpful and greatly appreciated. Happy to answer any further questions, just didn't want to put too much in here! TIA

if the OP is daft enough to move in after 5 minutes without taking stock of how her partner parents and what his expectations might be in terms of her relationship with those chidren

This is the support forum for stepparents, it is not AIBU. Where can a new, wants to do the right thing, 'stepmum' go for advice, first off the bat? If you scare off anybody who wants to do it right, it might be your own children that are left with Cruella de Ville.

For all any of us know, OP may have had full police checks for her existing employment. She could be a nurse, a senior school teacher, a care worker with the elderly - just not up-to-speed with modern parenting ideas and the needs of 5 year olds. A career girl has no more knowledge of Mumsnet mantras than most of you do about the specific procedures within her employment.

@SpaceshiptoMars

if the OP is daft enough to move in after 5 minutes without taking stock of how her partner parents and what his expectations might be in terms of her relationship with those chidren

This is the support forum for stepparents, it is not AIBU. Where can a new, wants to do the right thing, 'stepmum' go for advice, first off the bat? If you scare off anybody who wants to do it right, it might be your own children that are left with Cruella de Ville.

For all any of us know, OP may have had full police checks for her existing employment. She could be a nurse, a senior school teacher, a care worker with the elderly - just not up-to-speed with modern parenting ideas and the needs of 5 year olds. A career girl has no more knowledge of Mumsnet mantras than most of you do about the specific procedures within her employment.

Totally agree.

I think people here sometimes forget how hard it is when you are a step-parent with no kids of your own - you don't know what behaviour is reasonable or what expectations to have. I have learnt loads about children from my SCs but before them I really had no clue at all.

This is the support forum for stepparents, it is not AIBU. Where can a new, wants to do the right thing, 'stepmum' go for advice, first off the bat?

Sadly probably another site! Any helpful advice people get on here is always hidden between the pages and pages of horrible comments.

If posters want to be angry with someone in this situation, maybe the children's father is who it should be directed at. He is the one who is responsible for his children and their well-being.

A new partner should assume that the parent has thought things through and is doing the right thing for their children. The OP has done nothing more than trust his judgment on that and tried to make it work.

Even people with their own or who work with children have no idea about the difficulties that can arise in blended families before they get into them. Often you genuinely just don't realise until you've moved in/married and the best behaviour has worn off. Why on Earth would a childless woman assume she knew better than the children's father.

She's asked for help here. Let's do something other than berate her for not actually having known what she was getting in to (who does?) and letting a father make his own choices about his children.

I think people here sometimes forget how hard it is when you are a step-parent with no kids of your own - you don't know what behaviour is reasonable or what expectations to have. I have learnt loads about children from my SCs but before them I really had no clue at all.

Absolutely. People on MN seem to really struggle to understand that.

@Graphista

Honestly? If I were their mother I'd be absolutely livid and extremely concerned about his completely inappropriate behaviour in having you move in 2 months after you started dating and now only 7 months in leaving you in sole care of my kids!

Does their mother know this is going on? Have you met her?

Completely and utterly irresponsible and unacceptable way to do things.

Frankly this early on you shouldn't have even MET his kids let alone be regularly left in sole care of them!

What is he thinking?!

The poor kids head is probably spinning! And I'm wondering if he's done similar before and so she understandably doesn't see you as a permanent fixture and is resentful that when her father is SUPPOSED to be spending time with her he's buggering off and leaving her with you and in her clumsy 5 year old way she's trying to deal with the whole mess!

Stop agreeing to be left in sole care of the children and frankly you should also move out

This is all far far too much waaaaaay too soon

Poor kids!

You haven't had "rude and unnecessary" responses you've had understandably shocked and disgusted ones - as am I!

and I have told him after last week that I refuse to look after them again while he goes to play and he has agreed that this will no longer happen.

If that were true you wouldn't have posted how you did as it would no longer be an issue would it?

Respect is earned not automatically given.

You're 33?! I was expecting you to be early 20's with little experience with children. That's how you're coming across.

it just happened

Bull! You're both adults, he's a parent. Moving in doesn't "just happen" whatever the circumstances. He's prioritised his sex life and convenience in terms of NOT parenting his kids over the safety and welfare of said kids. Appalling!

and I don't know anyone who is in the same position.

Because no sensible adult would put themselves in this position nor the kids

Honestly, you sound like a stroppy teenager.

Agreed.

Nothing wrong with having a relationship with someone who has kids, there IS something wrong with dragging those kids into a relationship this early

The child is acting this way because she doesn't feel SAFE - that may "only" be emotionally but it's an absolutely stupid, inconsiderate and irresponsible thing for you and your boyfriend to have done.

Even IF the relationship succeeds the children will always know and feel that their needs weren't prioritised and that dad palmed them off onto his new girlfriend as soon as he could get away with it!

If the relationship doesn't succeed they will have to go through the trauma and distress of your breakup (not something small children should have to deal with) and frankly given how he's behaved I wouldn't be at all surprised if he blamed the kids!

I think asking for advice proves it isn’t all about OP

No it doesn't! She's moaning that a 5 year old she barely knows won't do an op tells her. She's annoyed about not being able to control the child that's not about the child's needs at all

My ex is now married to a former friend of mine who used to babysit dd when we were still together. Even so when we split and they got together all 3 of us adults still knew we needed to give her time to adjust and she didn't move in with ex straight away. That's what decent, child focused parents (inc step parents) do.

My ex's 2nd wife was a wonderful stepmother to dd and frankly if it weren't for her the whole situation could have been so much more difficult for dd. She went at dds pace, answered questions honestly and if dd in the early stages said she wanted dad to herself for a bit she stepped back.

She had ex's baby just a few months after split - that was far from ideal! But she made sure dd was made a fuss of as a big sister and even made sure dd was the first person after dad to see the new baby and the baby "got her a gift" too

There are good and bad ways to handle blended families and step parenting. This example here is among the worst

Lockdown is an excuse. A very poor one.

This issue wouldn't have arisen with a man who is a good, responsible dad and who has the makings of a good, equal partner.

Absolutely

it is not her responsibility to say to her partner "I'm not moving in yet because it's not fair on your kids". That was HIS responsibility

No - they're both grown ass adults who should know better

There have been a number of threads with ops dating men with children who are trying to move things along faster and the ops have rightly and understandably been shocked and concerned and when posting here been told "red flag" not only for cheeky fuckery but also because he clearly doesn't prioritise his dc. They have said to the boyfriends that things need to slow down. Absolutely no reason this op couldn't and shouldn't have recognised the ludicrous nature of the speed of moving her in.

I've been a single mum almost 20 years, in that time I have dated men with and without children of their own and come across men in both categories that tried to push to move things along far more quickly than was appropriate. I was perfectly capable and aware enough to say no! For dds, their kids and my sake!

Everything Graphista has said!

PPs weren't criticising the situation just to have a 'go' at OP. We're simply pointing out how poorly it's been handled and the speed at which it has moved will have a missive impact on the poor kids.

Also agree that the main one at fault here is the OP's DP as he has the parental responsibility but OP should at least be considering them to an extent

@aSofaNearYou

I think people here sometimes forget how hard it is when you are a step-parent with no kids of your own - you don't know what behaviour is reasonable or what expectations to have. I have learnt loads about children from my SCs but before them I really had no clue at all.

Absolutely. People on MN seem to really struggle to understand that.

Yet another reason to take it slow!!

Yet another reason to take it slow!!

I'm not not on board with taking it slow - I did, I didn't even meet my partner's children for a year and we moved in together 2 years after that!

My point was that OP shouldn't be blamed for moving in 'too fast for the children' when her DP is ultimately responsible for evaluating how his children might feel about the situation. I think it's unreasonable to expect OP not to move in with her partner due to concerns for children that aren't even hers and whose parent says it's fine.

Yet another reason to take it slow!!

Yes, if you knew it was going to be an issue beforehand, which you often don't. Why would you know to be cautious otherwise?

@Bibidy

If you're with someone with kids then they decide the line on what is OK and what isn't when it comes to the kids. If OP's partner thought it was OK for his children for him and OP to move in together then that's up to him to decide.

Er, no. You don't need any personal experience with children whatsoever to understand that you, as an adult, have responsibilities, insights and choices that they, as children, don't.

@aSofaNearYou

Yet another reason to take it slow!!

Yes, if you knew it was going to be an issue beforehand, which you often don't. Why would you know to be cautious otherwise?

The fact that you have no experience of something or no idea what it will be like is a good reason not to rush into it.

The DP is far more to blame here as he should have a better idea of how it would impact his kids.

Even if the OP has no experience of kids, if I was dating a guy who was prioritising me over his kids WITHIN 2 MONTHS of meeting me, I'd be running a mile on the based on his morals

*The fact that you have no experience of something or no idea what it will be like is a good reason not to rush into it.

The DP is far more to blame here as he should have a better idea of how it would impact his kids.

Even if the OP has no experience of kids, if I was dating a guy who was prioritising me over his kids WITHIN 2 MONTHS of meeting me, I'd be running a mile on the based on his morals*

Again, this whole comment is just assuming a level of knowledge that most childless people do not have. You would have absolutely no reason to think your partner was prioritising you over his kids if you had literally never heard any discussion about kids with separated parents needing a long time before meeting partners. People forget this is Mumsnet, a place where people have generally put a lot of thought into parenting based issues. Outside of this kind of setting, the above is really not a common topic of conversation amongst the average childless people. Hence why the responsibility falls to the parent to make sure they are considering all those things. Because they should realise how different their own outlook is since having proper exposure to children, and especially children in this situation, and that others are likely to be clueless.

Oh, come on. Of course the dad is beyond irresponsible. But it's nothing more than basic common sense and decency not to move in with kids you don't know, after 8 weeks.

@excelledyourself

Oh, come on. Of course the dad is beyond irresponsible. But it's nothing more than basic common sense and decency not to move in with kids you don't know, after 8 weeks.

For what reason?

@aSofaNearYou Most people wouldn't move in with a new partner within 8 weeks of meeting. If it is 2 child free adults at least they're not impacting anyone else.

To me anyone who has been a child themselves would realise they would not have wanted to live with a stranger within 8 weeks of meeting them.

My DSis and many friends are child free but would never dream of this. It's common sense.

I accept OP may not be experienced with children but at age 33 it's hardly rocket science that their welfare needs to be a factor in the decision making

But it's nothing more than basic common sense and decency not to move in with kids you don't know, after 8 weeks.

It's naive, but I don't believe decency is valid. If the OP works in a caring profession or knows herself to be beyond kind, she would expect to treat the children well automatically.

Even if the OP has no experience of kids, if I was dating a guy who was prioritising me over his kids WITHIN 2 MONTHS of meeting me, I'd be running a mile on the based on his morals

Disagree, I think early in a relationship most childless people would be more concerned that they would consistently be placed in 2nd place behind the children, rather than be worried that the dad wasn't putting them 2nd enough!

Again, I agree with aSofaNearYou''s comment above. I would not have wanted to move in with my DP - and therefore be staying with his children - after 2 months BUT the reason would have been for myself, not for them. I took my DP's word on when his children were ready to meet me, and it would have been the same with this. My concerns would have been for myself and when I was ready for these steps.

Neither OP or her DP considered what was right or fair for his DC in this scenario. In fact the DP seems to have landed himself a willing childminder while he goes off and neglects his parental duties.

Yes, I see OP has rectified this now, but my point stands. Also if OP has sorted this out what was the point of the thread in the first place?

Tbh regardless of all these arguments, it sounds like OP actually has a good relationship with these children and they don't have an issue with her being there?

The issue was only about how to get the 5 year old to do as she's told when OP is the only one around - which I do agree she shouldn't be.

@Bibidy

Tbh regardless of all these arguments, it sounds like OP actually has a good relationship with these children and they don't have an issue with her being there?

The issue was only about how to get the 5 year old to do as she's told when OP is the only one around - which I do agree she shouldn't be.

OP also said in her original post "I don't know what is causing this....." referring to the 5yo's behaviour and her not listening/respecting her.

That is the part we are trying to help her understand

OP kids are often cheeky, and the acting out behaviour is likely to be due to the trauma of her situation. I would speak to her mother and try to replicate the routine the kids have there within your own home too, exactly and thoughtfully. I would also want to speak to the mother about the rules in place at her home etc and replicate that too so there is complete consistency and everyone is parenting them the same way. 3 and 5 is very young and all you can do to unify the parenting and their routine will be beneficial to you all.
I would absolutely decide not to be sole carer of the children,that isnt fair on them or you, they need their father and theres no reason they cant enjoy activites along with him, like any other parent he needs to tailor his lifestyle to family friendly activities when he has the children and save golf for when they are at their mothers, unless he can bring them along too.

A relevant point to this situation may be (aside from the golf which is inexcusable) that this man could not actually manage to cope with everything regarding caring, feeding, dressing, bathing etc. these 2 young children for half the week unless he had the help of OP. She is probably essential to the arrangement for children care as far as he is concerned. If it were not her - then he would need someone else.

@bibidy I meant I expected op to be both much younger AND inexperienced with children as 2 separate things. She is clearly inexperienced with children which I agree is about life experience as well as age. I was very experienced with children from a young age due to a large extended family of which I am the eldest on both sides plus having 2 younger siblings. I've been caring for other people's children since I was 13 starting with babysitting and then was a nanny before becoming a mother myself and then a childminder after. I started nannying in my early 20's. So I'm well aware that younger people can be very experienced with children, but also that older adults can have very little. My ex was the youngest of 4 and was the youngest of all his cousins too, he had never even held a baby until we had dd when he was almost 29, it terrified him! Funnily enough he now has 6 kids! dd and 5 with 2nd wife. He can now do a nappy one handed which he jokingly referred to as "witchcraft" when I did it with dd

The father (loose term I feel!) is definitely the one MOST irresponsible here but the op is almost a grown adult and perfectly capable of assessing the folly of proceeding as they have

Why would you know to be cautious otherwise?

I would expect most healthy and competent 33 year olds to know better than this!

I have several child free by choice and childless friends who have dated men with children and even gone on to marry them. They have ALL realised and understood and behaved with a basic knowledge of the best way to proceed when children are involved, taken things slowly, backed off when the children for whatever reason weren't coping even to the point of suspending the relationship for periods of time. This is not about experience with children per se it's about basic common sense!

They haven't necessarily had a smooth ride, indeed the one that's had it hardest with the "children" the children were adults when she met her husband, he was a widow rather than a divorcé which made emotions rather messy I feel and the youngest in particular really challenged her. But my friend listened, understood and did what she could to calm things down, even offering to end the relationship if necessary. The adult child considered this over a holiday with her siblings and father and ultimately realised her issue was really her grief for her mother and her premature passing (cancer sucks!) - totally understandable. My friend and her are not best friends but they are now friendly and she was even a bridesmaid at the wedding later.

Step parents at all stages can have it tough, step children I would say have it tougher! They rarely have a choice in the matter and are expected to be "resilient" and just "adapt" to whatever the parents want.

Yes, ideally families wouldn't break up, but they do sadly and it is our job as parents to make that situation as manageable as possible for the children involved - that is absolutely not what has happened here.

For what reason?

Really???

Because it is unsettling emotionally for the kids, because NOBODY knows ANYONE well enough to know they are a sane, healthy, non toxic, non abusive person to have around your kids at this stage (as pp said teachers, babysitters etc have background checks, training, experience etc), because there's no way of knowing this early on if the relationship is going to last (I wouldn't even refer to a new romantic person as even a boyfriend/girlfriend this early on they'd just be someone I'm dating!) and putting kids through a break up is also very emotionally unsettling, because it could cause their mother a shit ton of concern (just because parents are no longer together doesn't mean they shouldn't be considerate of each other in terms of co-parenting), because it can seriously mess with finances which can impact children - there's a shit ton of damn good reasons NOT to do this!

and they don't have an issue with her being there?

Actually it sounds to me as if they're used to their dad pulling crap like this! I would say their low key (and in the case of the 3 year old non existent) reaction to this nonsense indicates they're numb to it.

Sorry OP but I agree, you aren't going to get helpful advice about your DSD here as your DSD isn't actually the problem. I agree, it's your DP.

Really??? Because it is unsettling emotionally for the kids, because NOBODY knows ANYONE well enough to know they are a sane, healthy, non toxic, non abusive person to have around your kids at this stage (as pp said teachers, babysitters etc have background checks, training, experience etc), because there's no way of knowing this early on if the relationship is going to last (I wouldn't even refer to a new romantic person as even a boyfriend/girlfriend this early on they'd just be someone I'm dating!) and putting kids through a break up is also very emotionally unsettling, because it could cause their mother a shit ton of concern (just because parents are no longer together doesn't mean they shouldn't be considerate of each other in terms of co-parenting), because it can seriously mess with finances which can impact children - there's a shit ton of damn good reasons NOT to do this!

Yes, but they are all concerns of the parent. I respect that some childless people will guess these things but not all will.

@aSofaNearYou OP is 33, I'm assuming even if she hasn't had experience with children she can grasp how huge changes might affect them