Should we have to pay this much maintenance?

[Festivalgirl83]

DP and I live together in a house we bought together last year. He has a DD (8) with ex wife who he split with when DD was a year old. I have 2 DC of my own.

His DD has never stayed overnight with him because mum firstly breast fed until she was 3 so he was unable to have her overnight for those first few years, she has then built up such a strong bond she is unable to spend a night away from her Mum and is very traumatised if this is attempted. However, she otherwise loves spending time with her Dad and being here and throughout all these years Dad has paid maintence.
His DD is now spending more time at ours than ever before, in the last 7 days she has been here for 4 full days and we give her all meals but goes home about 7pm, Dad does all the driving. This happens most weeks now.
We are starting to wonder if he could suggest paying less as we have her for sometimes more meal times and hours than her Mum but obviously maintenence is worked out on overnight stays.

Does this sound completely unreasonable?

Could your DH sugget the child's mother drives her to and fro? If the child went on holiday with.uou and managed without her Mum for 2 nights then she can do it. Most likely the mother tells child she misses her and wants her to sleep at home. If your DH went back to court he could ask for shared care of his dd.

So your husbands motive of seeing his daughter more is with the intentions of reducing maintenance?

You by law will still be paying the same as she does not spend the night with you, I am shocked that you even asked this just because you feed her when no doubt your all eating anyway. Seriously

Op do you spend £500 or less per child for your children?

Remember to include:

Larger mortgage/rent payments due to needing enough bedrooms
More council tax
More utilities payments for a larger property
Childcare (do you work? Does he?)
Furniture
Soft furnishings
Household items like lights and lightbulbs for their rooms
Books and toys
Tech equipment

And that's before the more obvious regular expenses like:

Clothes and shoes including uniform and PE kit
School equipment including bags
Transport
Haircuts
Medical/health expenses (1st aid items, otc meds, sun cream etc)
Increased grocery expenses (not just food but also cleaning items, toiletries etc)
Items for clubs as well as fees
Birthday and Christmas items plus cost of parties - not just theirs but the ones they attend too.
Entertainment costs (streaming services, in normal times trips to swimming and cinema days out in school holidays etc)

You say you have 2 children of your own yet seem oblivious that £250 a month barely touches the sides!

The cms amount is a MINIMUM legal requirement. If he were still with his child's mum he'd be contributing a damn sight more than £250!

They move in with a man with kids and then start complaining that he has to pay for those kids, even though it’s the minimum. How very dare the mother of his child want money to bring up her child

Yep!

I was lucky insofar as it wasn't ex's 2nd wife was the motivator of his crappy attitude to maintenance it was all him! But I am very aware of many other cases where this is very common.

Ahh your ex is stiffing YOU - jealousy then!

if I didn't have kids my gas/electric would be the same I'd have the heating on for myself?

I see this and similar comments made on mn frequently. My dd moved out just over a year ago (she's now 20) and I am on a smart meter. She worked full time and is quite a sociable sort around here with friends she's known a long time and was rarely home. My energy bills have still dropped by almost half! Utter nonsense that they're hardly using any! My grocery bill by about 1/3 even though she seemed to rarely eat here. I think because it's a gradual increase (cos babies don't really use adult items suddenly they gradually are weaned etc) many parents are unaware of the true costs unless they sit and analyse it properly. I'm a bookkeeper by admin trade and I love a good spreadsheet and I've kept old ones from when dd still lived with me and can see the difference in my expenses over the years, I find it quite interesting. I've had similar discussions on occasion with people in real life, a few of whom have been willing to let me see their finances and I've pointed out things they're paying out for which are just for dc which they had forgotten/not counted in their heads.

There are various studies and articles about the fact that parents rarely properly look at this and generally vastly underestimate the cost of raising a child.

Understandably because if you do tot it ALL up to one great big total over the 1st 18 years you'd probably have a bloody heart attack!

Plus you need to include alllllll the other expenses i and others have listed. You may not spend out on certain things every month or even every year but they still need to be bought/replaced at some point and so the cost is there.

Who started the discussion op? Honestly?

Regarding the unwillingness/inability to stay overnight. That's not uncommon at this age. I was lucky dd was a pretty confident and flexible kid on this kinda thing she was fine staying over at friends and relatives at a fairly young age.

BUT she hated staying at her dads and I didn't learn why until she was a teen. Turns out he was treating her pretty badly when she was there to the point of under feeding her and infantilising approaches to certain things like bath time!

It may also be something to do with the different styles of parenting. She might be babied a little more at home than she knows she would be at her dads.

Not unusual at this age for a child to want a parent to stay with them until they fall asleep which it sounds like her dad isn't happy doing. And are there other children at her mums? Does she share a room there? If so maybe being on her own at night freaks her out a bit?

I shared a room with my sister, when I went away for first brownie camp the focus was on how I'd be staying away from home. I was fine but my sister lost it being left alone at night and ended up "camping out" in my brothers room after the nightmarish first night my parents had as a result.

There's so much to unravel here but honestly neither you nor her dad are exactly coming across well here op

Her mother still has to provide and maintain a home, buy the chil shoes toys books hobbies and clothes, take the child to school etc . That's what he;s paying maintenance for.

Out of interest, how much less would you suggest paying?

Since she's often at yours 4 days a week and he drives her at home the same day, that means you live close to her mum so petrol costs aren't super high.

She's probably not eating masses as she's only 8 (and may have simple tastes like the average 8yo)

It's hard to tell whether the lack of overnights is due to mum manipulating her dd or your partner not willing to do some actual parenting and risk tears in the process but I feel sorry for the dd who can't even go on a sleepover if she wanted.

Please don't do this. My ex dragged me through the courts so he could try and get 52 nights a year...purely to reduce his maintenance payments by £14 a week.

CM doesn't reduce that much actually when you take into account 1-2 nights a week so I wouldn't get too hung up on it.
£250 is relative to his take home so I think it is a bit unfair that people are saying he isn't paying enough, he needs to live too.

Some of the things named on here as needing CM to go toward are ridiculous- tickets to the Zoo, annual passes?! They are not necessities, if the RP wants to take the kids for days out, fine but you shouldn't expect your ex to fund it.

I also agree with you OP that it doesn't cost that much for children unless you actively choose to spend excessively- I guess some things people count as necessities but are actually choices (like hundreds of after school activities, numerous annual passes and expensive day trips out, meals out etc).
But I do agree that as £250 is the minimum amount set by the CM, he should be paying this.

To put it into perspective for all the bashers here, how much does your ex pay for his 2 children (to you) if both of them are his? Unless a child is with your current partner.

@QuestionEverythingOrBeASheep

To put it into perspective for all the bashers here, how much does your ex pay for his 2 children (to you) if both of them are his? Unless a child is with your current partner.

That’s totally irrelevant.

Maintenance is proportional to income. So, her ex could pay a tiny amount in comparison, or equally a huge amount in comparison, and it wouldn’t make what her DH is paying unfair or too much (or too less)

@Festivalgirl83 It sounds like your opinion on fair maintenance is being skewed by your ex messing around and hiding income. Might be better served getting advice on how to flush that out rather than focusing on your DH’s situation.

Some of the things named on here as needing CM to go toward are ridiculous- tickets to the Zoo, annual passes?!

CM is for the child’s needs. Please show me where it says you must only provide the bare minimum. Going to the zoo, aquarium, museum, theatre, art gallery, can all be done cheaply and are a necessity as far as I’m concerned. Also if you live a comfortable life, why would you deliberately deprive your child a similar standard of living?

I find those “he needs to live too” comments laughable too! I’ve never heard of a NRP going hungry to feed their child, conversely I’ve heard of many stories where RP (usually mums) are literally going hungry in order to keep a roof over the children’s heads!

Let me put it this way, a NRP without majority care responsibilities can easily earn more unimpeded and therefore find money to contribute adequately to the child’s needs. The sooner society stops making excuses for deadbeat parents doing the absolute bare minimum, the sooner children will have better outcomes!

The things we do as a parent
That's why you keep having her stay over
I think your trying to wrangle it for the cost saving more than anything
Overseas some parents pay triple your amount.

@HoldontoOneMoreDay

Three grand a year to maintain a child.

I usually avoid the step-parenting threads because they can turn so bashy so quickly but... cmon OP, 3 grand a year to house and clothe a child and you think it's too much because you've chucked a few extra fish fingers at her?

😂

I spend £160 a month on classes for my 3 year old.
Seriously? I don't know anyone who spends that on "classes" for a normal 3 yr old.

I was expecting him to be paying at least a four fixture amount each month when I saw your thread title. £250 really isn’t that much when you consider food, clothing, entertainment, activities, resources etc. Focus on building the relationship with the child and forget about the money.

@choli I can assure you he’s perfectly normal 😂. It just adds up quickly. Here is the breakdown:

• Swimming lesson £12.50 x 2 (he is a real water baby and it would be the same cost to do one lesson and go to the pool ourselves so he does 2 classes)
• music class £7.25
• multi sport activity class £8.50

Just that is £40.75 a week (and approx. £160 a month). At one point he also did a phonics class with grandparents (music and actions) which was £7.50 a week.

I wouldn’t say his schedule is excessive in the slightest when spread out over a week. Everything is just expensive and adds up quickly. It isn’t the Non resident parents “responsibility” to fund everything but all of these things help a child develop and learn.

@TippledPink Nobody is saying that Cm is needed for the zoo or annual passes. If it was my post you’re referring to, I was merely pointing out all of the things I spend money on to raise my children. These are just one thing of many and when taken into account as a whole, £250 would barely scratch the surface.

Has he sat down with his ex and had a conversation about her staying overnight and what her mum wants recently? She may also want to move towards 50/50, mum might be wanting to have a relationship etc - not everything is a battle. I would work on overnights now and go from there, it seems her dad is covering things that not all nrps do

I do often think that maintenance should be split into quarter days - as my ex will have mine just for the sleepover part of the day to make sure he has them 3/4 nights a week. There are always going to parents that try and work around it to pay the minimum. (He also deducts travel costs for him to pick them up)

However saying that if want to save £30 a month, I suggest you do it another way.

No one needs to spend £25 a week on swimming for a 3yo though. My local council pool is £22 per month. The rest of your activities aren't necessary. They're nice but not necessary to live.

OP £250 isn't loads so I wouldn't reduce it.

@Goatsgetmygoat

He only pays £250 a month and wants money knocked off for 4 meals a week?! I’d be embarrassed to be with such a stingy guy.

God me too, I'd really find that unattractive in my dh. A measly £250 and he's trying to weasel his way out of paying the full amount.

I don’t think £250 is that much, I’ve never been in the situation myself. I have a friend with a very well off, self employed ex and he pays £30 a week (or did, maybe that’s now increased to £50 if that’s the minimum). My friend struggles immensely, doesn’t drink, smoke, drive or go on holiday, she works 4 days a week.
Another work colleague who has a good job, her new DH has a good job, they have a great lifestyle. Her ex has a good job and pays a ton of maintenance she admits she doesn’t need (but still takes).

Bottom line is maintenance is calculated on over nights.. You can ask her if she will take a lower payment but if she disagrees, the current amount, assuming it was calculated using an appropriate calculator, can be enforced by the CMS.

So he pays 8.21 a day towards her keep?
Hardly onerous is it?

Your own DC must have a pretty miserable life if you think that your DP paying £250 a month to contribute to the upbringing of his child is excessive. Most people spend more than that on car finance.

Are you wanting him to reduce CMS so you have more money in the pot for you and your DC?

Is it only due to the school holidays his DC is spending more time at yours? How likely is that to continue when she’s back at school?

You sound really petty and considering you’re not even married to her Dad should butt out and stop whispering in his ear (which I bet you do) about it.