EX's GF bathing with child

[Dawn2015]

Hi,

Just getting a feel for this situation, my child is 5 and goes to her dads every other weekend. She came home recently and said she had been in the shower with her dads GF. They have been together about 9 months. I think this is really not appropriate.

I asked her dad about it and he dismissed me, so my solicitor contacted him (we have contact order in place) advising I was happy for his gf to bathe my child, be alone with her for short periods but no overnight access would take place until a was assured they would not shower together again. He has reacted badly and will not give assurances unless is court ordered to do so. He is now threatening to take me back to court for breach of the order as I only let him have access but no overnight last weekend.

I have no issue with his GF we haven’t been together for 4/5 years, she is a lovely woman who I have met and spoke with but I don’t understand why she thought it was normal behaviour.

I don’t think I’m overacting by asking for this reassurance but what is other people’s views? i have placed this thread in the parenting section as well but thought i would also place here to get all views.

As a step mum I do bath my SC but would never dream of bathing/showering with them, seems odd that she won't just agree not to do it!

I can't believe how many people think this is ok!!

Totally outwith the boundaries of reasonable poor judgement and I would stay your course he sounds like an arsehole so if can't be reasonable I'm not surprised you e got your solicitor involved

SandyY2K

You wouldnt do it and fair enough but that doesnt make it wrong.

Being naked in a shower with another adult who she has know for less than 6 months is not about beliefs it's about common sense
Not it isn't. It is for you and for some other posters, it is about beliefs. It's hard to understand it when you don't adhere to it, but as upsideup has said, it doesn't make it wrong.

I am personally quite a private person, and was definitely so as a child, so wouldn't have showered naked with my kids, but if their dad had done so AND they had no issue with it, I would have accepted it.

One thing I don't think you've responded to, but did your ex confirmed that his partner was indeed fully naked in the shower with her whilst they both washed themselves?

I totally agree with your course of action OP.

I can't fathom why an adult in her position would think this is acceptable.

My DCS grandparents would not bathe naked with the children and to be honest a girlfriend of 9 months is a stranger - that the child has met at best 10-12 weekends in the child life.

OP your instincts are right - bathe your child yes, but not naked bathing.

My DSD is now 6 we have a great relationship, ive been in her life for 4years. She has often begged to shower with me. The only two times ive allowed it was when i had my swimsuit on, there is no way i would ever consider a naked shower together it just not necessary. We do alot of swimming so she sees me get changed alot but a naked shower is something id be terribly uncomfortable with. As PP said it really shouldn't have to be up to your DD to say its not OK. The GF shouldn't have allowed it.

I think YANBU to ask you ex to stop this happening and even try get a prohibitive steps order. But i think YABU to stop contact with her dad in the mean time.

I also found your post about having to meet everyone your DD is with very controlling. Does your ex also have to have meet everyone you leave DD with?
DHs ex tried to have that clause in their order but was told it was ridiculous.

So the child should have her face at the level of dad's GFs backside and vj. Why ..just why?

One thing I don't think you've responded to, but did your ex confirmed that his partner was indeed fully naked in the shower

As the OPs DD commented on seeing dad's GF bum...one would assume she was fully naked.

Some cultures and individuals are more relaxed about nudity and bathing. She's a woman, she probably has this little girl who adores her who wants to copy what she does etc.

Admittedly, it's odd to me and not something I would do after 9 months. I would not feel completely comfortable with the idea if my DD had showered with a SM of 9 months. But I would discuss it with the other parent.

As others have mentioned, going to a solicitor and stopping overnight access is very unreasonable and screams of bitterness and not putting your child first, only yourself.

You need a civil and open relationship with the other parent for the sake of your child and your child's best interests. How would you feel if he suddenly stopped your overnight access and contacted a solicitor for something that could have easily, simply and logically been spoken about with each other instead?

For the sake of DD, communicate without malice with the other parent. Stop using solicitors and revoking parental rights like overnight visits as a weapon, it's malicious and damaging to everyone.

As the OPs DD commented on seeing dad's GF bum...one would assume she was fully naked.
If that's all she said, that no, I certainly wouldn't assume that it means she was in the shower, with her, washing her. It could have been that she showered her dressed, then got her out of the shower, and as she was standing there in a towel, maybe waiting for her dad to pick her up, the SM went herself in the shower.

I remember the time a nursery member came to me after I picked up my DD asking if everything was ok at home. I was taken aback and asked why they were asking. It transpired that my DD had said that my OH had a massive fight with his brother, they'd punched each other and her uncle had fallen on the fence, broken it and broke his leg. No surprise they were concerned!

The reality is that we had a party in the garden, DD was in bed, but got woken up and when she looked at the window, she saw her father and his brother play fighting jokingly, but because they had a bit too much booze, they tumbled on the fence that was already broken, so end up on the ground and her uncle got up with a bit of a twisted ankle that was fine an hour later.

I'm glad that the nursery staff thought of asking me about it without making assumptions from what my DD had said and decided that the situation was concerning.

I don’t think this is OK but I wouldn’t even introduce someone to my son until i’ve been with them close to a year let alone let them bathe him or with him. It would make me extremely uncomfortable.

Just replying to a few recent comments, yes they were both fully naked in the shower.

As per previously explained I tried to talk to ex about it and was told to basically shut up and go away so what exactly should I have done after that other than seek legal help. I am not bitter or jealous I am more than willing to have his GF spend time with DD she is a lovely girl but I don't want her naked private parts in my daughters face...is that to much to request or should I just shit up and go away! Sorry for the rant but it feels like I'm not allowed to say anything because it is cantered around his GF without being accused of being jealous..it's like it's some people's automatic response.

the jealous response is ridiculous and patronising to women!!

I’d possible seek legal advice but I also don’t have a clue when it comes to that, your ex sounds like an arse with no common sense sorry.

YANBU at all. Not many options apart from solicitor if your ex won't have a sensible conversation or agree reasonable boundaries. I can't honestly imagine WTF they were thinking.

was told to basically shut up and go away
You mean he said 'yes, my girlfriend enjoys being naked with our DD and have her bits in her face, so shut up and go away' or did he say 'what happens in our house is none of your business, so shut up and go away' because the latter doesn't mean he confirmed this is what happened, just that he doesn't want to discuss what happens in his household with you.

For what its worth OP i dont think it has anything to do with jealousy of gf at all. But my questions and opinion are still the same.

OP - I think you are taking the right course of action.

I also think it is sensible that you have questioned if you are over-reacting by sounding out other people. Well done for taking that step too. It reflects well on you. Many posters have said they share your opinion - not all admittedly and you might meet a judge who shares that view. But keep on looking out for your DD the way that you are.

There will always be people that disagree with the decisions we make as DMs, and being a divorced DM (esp if DF is difficult) is extra challenging.

Good God, that is totally unacceptable. Massively inappropriate behaviour.

Yes, you are obviously taking the right approach. Your DD's emotional and physical health are your responsibility, jointly with her dad - that doesn't stop when she's with him. Ideally you would be able to point out why this isn't a good idea and have him listen (absolutely ideally, you wouldn't even be having the conversation of course, but that's by the by). But if you can't, you have a duty to your DD to go over his head.

Then it's up to a third party to listen to the arguments - and yours are sound. It's bloody common sense not to teach a 5 year old that showering naked with someone you met a short time ago is ok. It is incredibly bad parenting to prioritise trying to manufacture up a new 'family' over those basic safety rules. It goes pretty much without saying that he is going to have a hard time justifying this to a third party.

Very stupid too of the GF to not see this - you imply that the GF has a professional job where she needs a check - quite shocking to see that she didn't have an automatic 'no, not a good idea' reaction herself. She's put herself in an odd position indeed - the likelihood is that of course it's innocent, but the first question a third party might ask is how this came about? It's pretty natural to want to get involved in the parenting, the bedtime and baths. It's another thing entirely to make a conscious decision to share a shower and get naked together with a young child that isn't yours. She's shown incredibly poor judgement.

As for what you do now. One thing that stands out is the aggressive approach of your ex full stop. He refuses to engage with you on parenting issues. He breaches the order. He withholds maintenance.

Basically, he isn't a nice man and he does his best to walk all over you. This is going to continue, for your DD's whole childhood - a constant battle.

In the light of that, I'd find this extra disturbing. Co-parenting clashes are par for the course. Difficult exes too. But when it comes to a genuine belief that the other parent is compromising her welfare?

I would therefore in addition to your solicitor, speak to social services for advice. I think at this point, when you have a genuine question to ask, it would be a good idea to flag up, now, while it's happening, what has happened here and his response to it.

Not only could this give you more weight in court, it would also be potentially quite a useful thing to have on record - as I very much doubt that yet another variation to a court order he seems to delight in breaching will get the message across.

Get it on record.

Swing
why are you being difficult. The OP was clear therefore both naked in the shower...she raised it with her Ex and his response was clear.

He didn't deny it and when asked to ensure there would not be a repeat of it...he refused.

So...overnight contact was stopped...and rightly so.

OP... you have acted appropriately and ignore anyone who thinks otherwise.

There's a lack of common sense from your Ex...and his GF.

OP - I don't think you sound jealous at all. A concerned mother, yes.

Stopping the overnight access isn't ideal but, like you, I would be deeply uncomfortable with this situation.

Your XH's standard of parenting, in general, would piss me off... I agree with PP's, we are not talking about a SP here, at all!
The GF has been introduced to OP's DD, taken showers with her and even been looked after by GF's DM... yet DD has only known the GF for six months???

Good advice from Fizzygreenwater

Another step you could take (if you haven't already) - ask your solicitor - is to write to him to ask him to sign a Court Undertaking, or a Cross Undertaking (where you agree the same) . Cheaper than going to court; and less anxiety wondering if/when he might bring court proceedings for you failing to allow overnights.

Rough wording (for you each to sign) -- "when the child/ren are in my care I will not let [other] naked adults care for child/ren." [Decide if you want to extend this to you and DF. Given his reaction it might be worth it.]

If he refuses to sign - offering a cross -undertaking helps show that you did everything to keep overnight access on-foot on reasonable terms. In other words, that you didn't take the option of breaching the Court Order (refusing overnights) lightly but only as a last resort when he refused mutual reassurance.

If on the other hand he agrees the cross-undertaking (yay!), and overnight contact restarts, but then he breaks the promise, you stop overnights.Then if he takes it to Court he's in an even weaker position - he has to explain (1) why he thinks it's good for DD; and (2) why he broke a promise to the Court that he wouldn't do it. The Court will probably take a dim view of his behaviour, and will be aware (from the breached Undertaking) that something stronger than a promise to the Court is required to keep him in line.

why are you being difficult. The OP was clear therefore both naked in the shower...she raised it with her Ex and his response was clear.
Because as said, it is easy to hear what a 4/5 yo say and jump to conclusions that might not be exactly the reality. It happens very easily and if indeed OP has misinterpreted what her DD said, and then confronted her ex about it, I can see how is reaction would have been to feel that he didn't have to justify himself and tell her to butt out.

I guess I am questioning it because even though I don't think there is anything wrong with some people being naked around their kids, I do agree that it is a strange thing to do for a SM if it involved her and DD both naked, both in the shower. It's not even clear with the OP referring to bathing rather than showering, so I can't help wonder whether what happened is indeed what OP believes happened.

Thanks for all the advice guys defiantly some really useful tips there, some things of wouldn't have thought about.

I understand everyone has different views and I respect that and I'm in no way dismissing them I just think his gf showering naked with dd is wrong (it is defiantly what happen sorry if I haven't made that clear).

Hopefully everything will be sorted soon as the whole situation is no good for any of us, so fingers crossed common prevails. Thanks everyone.

Hi OP, I haven't read the full thread and just come across it. IMO I can fully understand that you do not like the thought of another women showering with your child. Personally, I don't think it's necessary to bath with any 5 year old child even if they are yours, or family.

I have a DSS who is 12 years old and have been with his dad since he was 3 years old. When he was younger I was involved at times with bathing him, supervising when he showered. However, It would have never crossed my mind to think it was ok to bath or shower with him, as I wouldn't my own DC.

If your ex speaks to you in the way he did and doesn't consider your thoughts on the matter then I do not blame you for going through your solicitor x

Hey OP, I can't comment much on the issue at hand (not least because living in Scandinavia the attitudes to nakedness in general are um.. different!)

However I feel SM's get a very hard deal on here generally and I actually think you seem to have a very lovely attitude to her - at no point in your posts have I seen a hint of nastiness towards her just because she's in a SM role to your daughter now, and I think it's commendable how much you've accepted her existence in general. Just wanted to say.