Paying for a family holiday?

[CharleyAB]

Hi,

I'm a newbie so please be gentle with me! I don't know the correct abbreviations so thought I'd just write long hand. Sorry about that.

I have been with my bf for over three years. Although we have lived together for some of this time, we do not currently live together - he lives with his mum and dad and the children stay with him there on his weekends.

I have been part of his children's lives for just over a year now (it would have been much longer but his ex banned me for spending time with the children) and I love them both very much. On his weekends with the children I try and spend as much time as possible with them all and we always have a great time.

My bf and I keep having the same argument and I would really like your advice / opinion. He is very stubborn and says I am in the wrong - maybe I am, but I'd like someone else to give me their view before I put my hands up and say 'yes, i'm wrong'.

Our problem is money - more specifically, who pays for what when it comes to the children.

We would like to go on holiday in July with the children, just the four of us - me and him and his two children (I do not have any children of my own).
Let's say the holiday costs £1k, how much should I pay towards the holiday and how much should he? I don't want to come across as penny pinching and mean, i'll explain the issue...

He earns a lot more than me and although he does of course pay the csa he doesn't have to pay any rent or other major bills and has a company car and fuel card so doesn't have that expense either. The only monthly outgoings he has are his loan, buying food for us when he stays at my flat and small incidentals like mobile phone, sky and doing things on the weekend with his children. Whereas my outgoings include my rent and all other household bills (although the bf stays with me every night that he doesn't have his children, he doesn't contribute financially, apart from buying food every so often so he stays with me 12 nights out of 14 - I am not complaining about this btw). I have only just come out of a bankruptcy so trying to be really careful with my money and am terrified of going broke again. Just because I might have £200 disposable income at the end of the month, doesn't mean I want to spend it as soon as I can. So, as you can see, his disposable income is greater than mine.

So, taking the above into account, how much should I pay towards the holiday? Should it be 50:50? As we are in a relationship and should share costs, or should it be 25:75 (him paying for him and his children and me paying just for me?).

I really don't want to sound mean, I just can't afford £500 for a holiday.

I do pay for other things when it comes to the children, often buying meals and for activities. This just seems like such a huge expense...

Thank you so much for your time to read this,

Kind regards

C

PS. What would your stance be on buying furniture for the children's bedrooms should we move in together? Should I pay 50% for their furniture too?

PS He is in no way a nice man..he may act nicely at times but he has revealed his true self, which is a selfish and cruel individual.

He's using you.

And he's not even bothering to pretend very hard that you are anything other than a meal ticket.

Come on - he starts up a relationship with the lodger who moved in when his wife left?

You were there, you were convenient, and you allow him to verbally bully you.

Get yourself away from this horrible, horrible man.

He thinks I am not worthy enough to be with him anyway and has said he can do much better than me and he deserves better

Run OP. Forget about the holiday. He is using you.

I'm sorry but this really isn't a step family issue. He's muddying the waters and emotionally blackmailing you by mentioning the children at all. In fact, he's treating you with contempt - both in the way he's taking you for a ride financially, and in the way he speaks about you. How fucking arrogant is that ? .... it's as if he truly believes you should be grateful for the honour of his company and be pleased to sub him left right and centre. Look, if you weren't around, he'd bloody well have to pay for all of his kids' holiday and whatever else they needed ... but this goes far deeper than just an argument about the holiday. I think you know deep down this isn't right or else you wouldn't have posted would you ? ..... I know I'm the umpteenth person to say this but your situation really does sound like one of those where cries of "leave the bastard" are fully justified. If you did move in with him don't imagine for a second that things would improve financially for you ... sounds as if he'd have loads more disposable income that you would and consequently there'd be a significant imbalance in your respective standards of living. What happens when he wants to do something but you can't afford it etc ? ..... on the basis of the current argument I'd say it's extremely unlikely he'd put his hand in his pocket to treat you don't you think ?

This isn't a "nice" man and I'm sorry you have deep feelings for him but he's not the man you wish him to be. Please don't sweep these nasty characteristics under the carpet because they'll come back to bite you in the bum for sure.

I agree this is a Relationship thread, really, not Step-parenting.

It's great that you want to spend time with the children and go on holiday, but he has absolutely no right to expect you to pay their holiday costs, let alone pressure you to do so and emotionally blackmail you to do so!

Add up how much money you might save if he shared household costs.

Don't include groceries, because he ought to be paying his fair share now!

You will save : half the electric, gas and water. Half the rent. But remember you will lose your single person council tax discount. And bills will be higher once you have children needing baths and showers, and the heating on all day. And when the children accidentally cause a huge stain on the carpet with Ribena or that dreaded Goo modelling stuff, who will pay for the lost deposit on your rent agreement? HIm - or will he want you to go halves?

I'm sorry, I posted under step families as I wanted to know how other step families deal with this.

Thank you all for your advice, I do appreciate it so much. It's interesting, hardly anyone said I was wrong for objecting to paying 50:50 but he still says im wrong. Now, how do I delete this thread so he can't dump me for speaking honestly about things? xxx

It is a relationship issue but also a step parenting issue. On other boards, people can be very judgemental about not putting kids at the top of the tree ALL the time if you are step parent but also tend to be very understanding of natural parents needs to vent and moan about their kids. .

Have no idea how you delete a thread, need to contact mumsnet moderators I would think.

Don't apologise! Don't creep around worrying about his feelings! Dump the fucker first!!!!

Well, he thinks you're wrong, and dozens of people on here disagree with him.
But frankly, this holiday money is the least of your worries. He's "stubborn," tells you "you're wrong," thinks he can do much better than you and will dump you if you bring up any of these serious issues.
Come on, wake up!!! See what he's doing here and get rid. It'd be nice if you could do the dumping but something tells me, with the way you write about him, you're not going to do that in a million years.
See you in "relationships" one day soon.

Charley,

Why are you so frightenened of him dumping you?

You do know that emotionally abused women feel that they deserve to be treated badly, think that they are wrong and are told time and time again by their partners that they are not worthy of them and their feelings and needs are disregarded.

Can you see what is going on here?

RUN FOR THE HILLS - FAST.........

Charley, I think you shoudl let some of your Real life freinds know about this situation and the kind of things he says to you/tries to blackmail you into.

Maybe seeing their reaction would mae you realise how toxic this man is.

You are worth more darling. You really are!

Charley. You are worthy, of so much more than him.

gawd yes get rid of him

better to live a single life, there are plenty of really lovely blokes out there

and, um, how to phrase this - why would he know you've been posting on MN? Does he check on your computer history?

Charley please don't stand for this. Run before you are in too deep. And BTW if he is staying with you 12 nights out of 14 he already is living with you! So why isn't he paying his way. Think about it, properly think about it. A partnership isn't where 1 part of a couple is constantly scared of being dumped and walking on eggshells. Please please run away fast.

You could ask Mumsnet to move it to OTBT - it disappears after 30 days or report and ask them to delete.

Im really worried by how scared - emotionally if not physically - you seem to be of him.

You really are better than this - you don't deserve this sort of life - no-one does.

Charley, lovely, no-one is criticisng you or saying you have done anything wrong posting in the 'wrong' board, just that the step parenting part of it doesn't tell the whole story.

You sound lovely...but don't try too hard to be the perfect partner, the perfect step mother, and let him take advantage! What parents know (that's us lot, here on MN!) is that parents take responsibility for their children - and your bf seems to be working very hard to make you take financial responsibility for them.

Charley - NO-ONE said you were wrong for objecting to paying 50/50! And remember that on this board there will be lots of women who would be delighted to have a step mum for their kids who would be so generous! As well as step mums with the same sort of issues as you.

Yes Blu is right - that as well as a Step Parenting issue this is also a relationship issue - don't apologise - everyone here is rooting for you x

Just so you can try and get some perspective, I just briefly outlined the situation to my DH (he has a daughter, and we have one between us) he would 100% pay for his daughhter in this situation. Whilst we do pool our money (I earn more, but DH works p/t to look after. Our daughter, so he earns much less, but contributes in other ways) he wouldn't expect me to pay anything for DSD, and in ffact stops me from spending on her lol.

He would never expect me to pay for her holiday as a 50/50 scenario.

Um, no, you misunderstand - him 'dumping' you would be a good thing. Or better still, you dump HIM.

He Is An Arse And You Are Wasting Precious Time.

Jeez, look at your last post - 'so he can't dump you for speaking honestly' - everything you've posted about this guy screams 'loser!!'

Get rid!!!

I'm really worried about you should this relationship progress to the next stage of him "officially" moving in with you - though with him staying there 12 out of 14 nights it's practically there already ( ... but while it's "unofficial" I guess he justifies his meanness by objecting "but I don't live there" (which is bollocks BTW)). However ... I think that if he does move in 100% you are at real risk of financial abuse ... with him guilt tripping you into paying more than your fair share, and ultimately, an imbalance of power in the household because he'll have so much more freedom than you (to treat himself, to do what he wants) and also, much more say about how money's spent - as he'll have far more than you in his pocket which he'll see as "his" and therefore, potentially, he gets to decide when your home is renovated/decorated, when and where you go on holiday, how much is saved and so on. You will end up in a position where you must be "grateful" each time he spends "his" money on anything which benefits you and therefore, that means, that people like this can use money to "punish" and/or control you as they see fit, by witholding money or using it as a bargaining chip.

Very few couples operate a 50:50 system because very few couples earn identical salaries. Maybe it's more common perhaps where both parties earn a very good wage (??) .... where even if once bills are paid, you have unequal sums left over respectively, you both still have "plenty" enough not to have to depend upon the other nor be restricted by finances. But I'd hazard a guess that kind of set up is unusual. Far more commonly, in committed and respectful relationships, couples either pool their money, pay the bills and equally divide what's left, or, they pay bills proportionately relative to their incomes. So ... if one earns £40K and the other earns £20K, a £30 bill would be divided £20/£10.

Do please think very very seriously before getting involved further with this man. Everyone needs to look out for themselves financially and never more so than right now where prices are rising all the time, there's no job security , (and few jobs per se) and housing costs are ridiculous. That means you need to be ultra sensible - generally - and certainly not be giving money away to someone who cares so little for you. If the shit hits the fan in the future you'll need that money after all. Everything you've told us really does ring huge alarm bells about this man - he sounds horrid TBH and I'm sorry if it upsets you to read that as I'm sure it would, and I'm sorry your hopes and dreams would evaporate if you split up from him but his attitude points towards a dismal future for you with him. Obviously, your future doesn't have to be dismal otherwise !

BTW ... wasn't criticising you saying this really wasn't a step family issue. Simply trying to convey that you have much more serious underlying problems which might equally apply to someone who wasn't a stepparent.

well said, catsmother.

I'm more of a lurker than a poster but I am at this. I would be running for the hills after telling him to f*ck right off!!!! Cheeky twunt!!!!

I have been a step mum for the best part of 18 years & for the 1st 6 years me & dp didn't live together (although I stayed at his alot). Until we lived together I didn't contribute anything to the household bills - although I paid for the odd takeaway & did some all of the cleaning. If we took dss on holiday I paid for me & took the same amount of spends as dp. When we moved in together he carried on paying the mortgage & all bills & I paid for the groceries & my own car - in fact its the same now since we have had our own ds. This is because he earns 2-3 times more than me especially as I went PT after ds was born. Its worked out best for us this way although I appreciate that others do things differently. We also only took dss on holiday every other year until ds was born then he came with us every year until he got to 18 & preferred to go with his mates. DP still paid for dss though when he did come with us & we split the rest 50:50 Dp even paid for dss' flight to Florida last year when we all went.

As others have said I think you have way bigger problems than paying for a holiday especially as he doesn't think you are 'worthy' of him....no he isn't worthy of YOU!!!!

Hi again,

Thank you all for taking the time to give me your advice - I was after advice on the holiday situation, not relationship advice unfortunately.

The bf and I had a good chat last night about my post, how much he really does contribute and our relationship as a whole.

He really is a great person, he puts up with all the rubbish I throw at him (I have AS :( ). He's always kind, caring, generous and is a fab dad. I do love him very much and do want to be with him and do not want to split up over this. He is definitely not an a**hole, a freeloader, a loser, a user or any of the other things people have said. He is the opposite of all of these things. I?m really horrified that I have painted such a negative picture of him. That definitely wasn?t my intention.

As I said in my original post, I am not bothered about him not contributing to my current bils - the bills would be the same if he was there or not and I would like him to sort out his own financial situation. I also didn't realise exactly how much he does spend on groceries for me - he must buy nearly all of them due to my refusal to go shopping as I hate it so much. I had no idea how much he spent on Monday when I posted the question and I feel really bad for making you all hate him. He really shouldn't be hated as he is very lovely :)

But thank you for looking out for me and for taking the time to help,

C