Page 17 | Why did the England players put medals on and then take them off?

Theforest · 13/07/2021 16:36

It is quite normal for a losing team to take their medal off. It's not unusual and not just England.

IntermittentParps · 13/07/2021 16:42

It says football is a chavvy sport and its players should behave similarly to those in naice middle class sports like tennis.
That's what you really want to say, isn't it?
Is it? Can I ask how you know? And what you know about me, my class or background?

There are countless examples of runners up in tennis who are clearly in tears at losing, and if they had much of a choice, they'd rather just leave the court, and let the winner celebrate. I think they are obliged to stay, and be photographed.
Kind of my point. Why do we not question football 'convention' of taking off your runner-up medal? Why is it accepted?

Tennis - a sport where Mental Health is dismissed as laziness, and those suffering from it face fines, or being expelled from competitions.
Hardly the model of modern civility at all is it?
Has anyone dismissed tennis's issues with mental health?

It is quite normal for a losing team to take their medal off. It's not unusual and not just England. Yes, we've talked about that. Quite a lot.

VerticalHorizon · 13/07/2021 16:47

Why do we not question football 'convention' of taking off your runner-up medal? Why is it accepted?
It's accepted because most folks don't have a problem with it. That's how acceptance works.

VerticalHorizon · 13/07/2021 16:49

Has anyone dismissed tennis's issues with mental health
You're misread. Tennis dismissed the mental health issues of Naomi Osaka very recently. Hardly a beacon of virtue is it?

IntermittentParps · 13/07/2021 16:59

It's accepted because most folks don't have a problem with it. That's how acceptance works.
That's a bit arse-backwards. And not well advised. I know this is Godwin's Law territory, but Ill say it anyway: many people in 1930s Germany didn't have a problem with the National Socialists.

You're misread. Tennis dismissed the mental health issues of Naomi Osaka very recently. No, you've misunderstood. No one on this thread is excusing the Naomi Osaka issue/tennis's issues with mental health.

IcedPurple · 13/07/2021 17:02

many people in 1930s Germany didn't have a problem with the National Socialists.

I'm going to repeat @VerticalHorizon here.

You cannot be serious. Really, you can't.

VerticalHorizon · 13/07/2021 17:04

many people in 1930s Germany didn't have a problem with the National Socialists
The majority DID have a problem with it, but because it was the largest supported option of many options, it won an election. More people didn't support it than did.

Have another try...

VerticalHorizon · 13/07/2021 17:08

No, you've misunderstood. No one on this thread is excusing the Naomi Osaka issue/tennis's issues with mental health.
I've misunderstood nothing.
You've put forward tennis as an example of a sport that better exemplifies how to behave. I've return your serve with a prime example of how tennis is hardly a sport to taking forward thinking lessons in moral virtue from!

IntermittentParps · 13/07/2021 17:08

You cannot be serious. Really, you can't.

I did admit it was Godwin's Law.
I hoped people would take my point. But here it is again, expressed differently: does having accepted something before mean we must continue accepting it?

VerticalHorizon · 13/07/2021 17:08

*returned

IntermittentParps · 13/07/2021 17:09

You've put forward tennis as an example of a sport that better exemplifies how to behave. I've return your serve with a prime example of how tennis is hardly a sport to taking forward thinking lessons in moral virtue from!

As you do actually understand, I'm sure, I refer specifically and only to the behaviour of tennis players, on court, having lost.
I think the Naomi Osaka debacle was just that, and the behaviour of Roland Garros in particular deplorable.
But that's not really relevant, for the reason above.

IcedPurple · 13/07/2021 17:10

@IntermittentParps

You cannot be serious. Really, you can't.

I did admit it was Godwin's Law.
I hoped people would take my point. But here it is again, expressed differently: does having accepted something before mean we must continue accepting it?

When you compare Association Football to National Socialism, you've already lost the argument.

You don't have to accept it. It's clear you don't like football or know much about it. However, most people who do like football will accept it. Most won't even notice it. I didn't. It's up to you whether or not you 'accept' it. The footballers won't care.

MrsTophamHat · 13/07/2021 17:14

I don't think you get to play at an elite level like that without having a burning desire for success. Losing will be painful for them. As long as they were gracious to their opponents, which they were, I do not think what they do with their medals is a big deal.

VerticalHorizon · 13/07/2021 17:15

@IntermittentParps

You've put forward tennis as an example of a sport that better exemplifies how to behave. I've return your serve with a prime example of how tennis is hardly a sport to taking forward thinking lessons in moral virtue from!

As you do actually understand, I'm sure, I refer specifically and only to the behaviour of tennis players, on court, having lost.
I think the Naomi Osaka debacle was just that, and the behaviour of Roland Garros in particular deplorable.
But that's not really relevant, for the reason above.

Well, we agree on at least this!

But as I said, the reason removing the runners up medal is accepted, is because it is.... accepted. The fans don't have a problem with it, the opposition doesn't have a problem with it and the governing body doesn't have a problem with it.

Perhaps those outside of the sport do have a problem with it. When enough of them start attending matches and making their feelings known, they might turn the tide.

VerticalHorizon · 13/07/2021 17:16

Perhaps someone's misheard the commentator explaining the striker's gone down with a Nazi injury!

IntermittentParps · 13/07/2021 17:19

When you compare Association Football to National Socialism, you've already lost the argument. Yes, I realise that. That's why I pre-empted myself by invoking Godwin's Law.

It's clear you don't like football or know much about it. I'm interested; can you tell me how this is 'clear'? Does everyone on this thread who finds this gesture problematic as ignorant of football as me?

But as I said, the reason removing the runners up medal is accepted, is because it is.... accepted. The fans don't have a problem with it, the opposition doesn't have a problem with it and the governing body doesn't have a problem with it.
That's a meaningless circular argument. And 'the fans' –what, all of them? How do you know that?

IcedPurple · 13/07/2021 17:24

@IntermittentParps

When you compare Association Football to National Socialism, you've already lost the argument. Yes, I realise that. That's why I pre-empted myself by invoking Godwin's Law.

It's clear you don't like football or know much about it. I'm interested; can you tell me how this is 'clear'? Does everyone on this thread who finds this gesture problematic as ignorant of football as me?

But as I said, the reason removing the runners up medal is accepted, is because it is.... accepted. The fans don't have a problem with it, the opposition doesn't have a problem with it and the governing body doesn't have a problem with it.
That's a meaningless circular argument. And 'the fans' –what, all of them? How do you know that?

You're right. It's a circular argument. You've had things explained to you over and over again but refuse to listen. If it bothers you that much when the losing side take off their medals, write a 'Disgusted from Tunbridge Wells' letter to UEFA or the FA. If enough do it maybe they'll introduce a regulation to force players to stay medalled up to their - and your - liking.

For the vast majority of football fans this simply isn't an issue, no matter how much you try to make it one.

VerticalHorizon · 13/07/2021 17:39

That's a meaningless circular argument. And 'the fans' –what, all of them? How do you know that?
I partake on plenty of football forums. I am a season ticket holder at a football club, I've watched football for the vast majority of my life, and been in the company of others who've watched for far longer still.

The topic's been discussed, and I've never heard an objection yet. I've only ever heard complete understanding and acceptance of it.

Will there be others who feel as you do? perhaps, but they'll be a minority.

Since you attempted to use the German Socialist Party as an argument for acceptance (when the majority of Germans did not vote for them), I think it's only right you acknowledge acceptance when an overwhelming majority on forums, on terraces and indeed on MN agree... it's fine.

The 'Fines' have it. Motion carried.

IntermittentParps · 13/07/2021 18:08

You've had things explained to you over and over again but refuse to listen.
I'm not understanding what exactly has been 'explained' to me, or why by your token these things that have been explained are correct, no question, and I may not say anything back and must accept that you're right.

For the vast majority of football fans this simply isn't an issue, no matter how much you try to make it one.
Who isn't listening, exactly? Part of my point (and many others' here) is asking WHY it isn't an issue and if it's OK that it's not an issue.

Scienceisnotopinion · 13/07/2021 23:38

😂😂😂