Why did the England players put medals on and then take them off?

[Opalfeet]

I'm intrigued 🤔

The medals are awarded straight away in the heat of the moment when they are disappointed not to have won. Especially when it has been so close and gone to penalties, and then there is also the pressure on the individual.

It's not like the Olympics when the medal ceremony is an hour or two later and the athletes will have calmed down a bit and got some perspective.

With perspective, it's a great achievement from England to come second to Italy, but it wouldn't have felt like that just then, they were feeling that they had blown such a big chance.

I am chuffed at how well they did, and exceeding most people's expectation. We are far from perfect, but most countries do NOT win things. Perhaps we have underachieved over the years, perhaps not. Regardless, we cannot judge this team on the results of those who went before them.

They did well. They've given us hope for the future, not reasons to think they'll do badly. How we as fans behave is also something not beyond reproach.

There is nothing gracious in a fan who seeks to stick the boot in once we've lost. We can all looks at reasons why we didn't win, but there are ways of expressing that. There is always room for improvement, even in the winning side, Italy.
Given that we came so close - there shouldn't be too much to have to change.

I’m Scottish. We were delighted we qualified and celebrated a draw. Coming second at the Euros would have been all our dreams come true and we would have loved the second place medals. Unfortunately we will never experience even getting through the group stages never mind getting to the finals.

We did so well but instead someone has to look for something, anything to criticise. Some people just cannot help themselves.
They done very well, the gutter press and SM comments completely overshadow any good done with the racist vitriol and abuse.
Only as good as their last match in many fans eyes. It's shameful.

Wimbledon MAY be more civilised. It's also particularly difficult for poorer kids to participate in. It's utterly middle class… It's a great sport, but it's simple not accessible to huge swathes of children.

Are you saying that children/men and women who are poorer should not be expected to behave graciously? That's a bit offensive if so.

Ungracious in your eyes. Not mine. There absolutely can be some ungracious acts (as in any sport), but this isn't one. Removing losers medals is ubiquitous in football. It's an accepted practice and not considered disrespectful by anybody who participates in the sport. Lots of things used to be 'accepted practice' until things changed for the better. I think the sport needs to ask itself some questions. Why is this accepted? How does it sit with this new move in football towards inclusivity/respect/stamping out racism and other bigotry?

The medals are awarded straight away in the heat of the moment when they are disappointed not to have won. Especially when it has been so close and gone to penalties, and then there is also the pressure on the individual.

This is how it happens in tennis too. And I'd argue that the pressure in tennis is comparable to a penalty shootout except that almost every point, especially in tie-breaks and/or towards the end of the match, carries the weight of a penalty shootout.

*Why is this accepted? How does it sit with this new move in football towards inclusivity/respect/stamping out racism and other bigotry?

It doesn’t sit anywhere. There’s absolutely no connection.

Are you saying that children/men and women who are poorer should not be expected to behave graciously? That's a bit offensive if so.

Don't be so bloody obtuse, and deliberately so.
I am saying what was clearly expressed - it's more 'civilised' because it's largely participated in by middle class folks who want to feel superior about it. It's a thin veneer of civility though, when it's still rife with racism itself.

How does it sit with this new move in football towards inclusivity/respect/stamping out racism and other bigotry?
The removal of a losers medal has no correlation to inclusivity or racism. Respect? perhaps, but it's an arguable point - one we're debating now.

You can't really compare tennis, smaller crowds, not linked to pub culture, more mixed crowds, almost no groups of all male supporters.

Even so I found some members of the highly privileged crowd very anti-social in calling out just as the players were about to serve. Very noticeable in the men's and women's finals.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

They should show they are the bigger men by keeping them on

But they're not "bigger men" - like so many footballers, here and elsewhere, they're a bunch of overpaid, petulant prima donnas

At least other nations' teams occasionally win a major tournament though ...

Grow up FFS.

It's absolutely pathetic the way you are clamouring to pour scorn on a team that did brilliantly well while also finding time to stand up for minorities and highlight the fight against racism.

They've got enough to contend with now being abused on Twitter, et al, without you non-fans piling on.

You clearly know the square root of fuck all about the players, the team or the game.

@Normandy144

Because no one wants the runners up medal. They wanted to win. They should be proud of themselves and I'm sure in time they will, but they don't want a medal reminding them they lost.

Of course they wanted to win.

But maybe if they could accept the medals graciously for what they are-for competing in the final & not think of them as "loser's medals" then this whole catastrophising & picking apart might lessen/stop.

Until they look to be proud of themselves for having played in the final-why would others be proud of them?

@diddl Well I am proud of them. Very much so. With or without them parading around runner up medals.

I think some folks are taking pleasure in being deliberately provocative, and needlessly so.

We have to differentiate the criticisms of football culture in general, with that of a group of players, who, regardless of their wealth, have achieved a very high level of success, and who have represented our country very well.

Are they perfect? no
Are they beyond reproach? no
Are they responsible for all the good and bad of football in general? no

I still find it telling that many are so ready to criticise, but offer no praise. It's a very cynical and negative stance I feel.

Does anyone think we have hope for next year?

Italy is a fantastic team and we lost by the skin of our teeth. I think if our same team played again we would win.

I genuinely believe a big part of it was just the pressure of it all.
We had young players who aren’t used to it whereas Italy had older players who are more used to that kind of pressure.

[quote morepizzapls]@diddl Well I am proud of them. Very much so. With or without them parading around runner up medals.[/quote]
Me too 👏

I am proud of them, and I totally understand their reluctance to wear runners up medals, which in their minds are 'losers medals' - because that is what the are. There were not winners of the competition, they are medals for the losers.

If you see 'losers' as negative, that's up to you, but I don't think the majority see it as negative. It's a simple fact that there can only be one winner of the competition. We can take pride in how well we did and still be 'losers'.

Yes they’re bound to feel like crap but if they showed that they felt that they played well and that 2nd place is still an achievement then the fans will also feel the same and there would be less abuse

Beautifully put, and perhaps another example of the gracelessness coming right from the top

See also the loud booing each time one side so much as touched the ball and the disgusting fighting

Does anyone think we have hope for next year?

I think we have more hope... not necessarily to win, but have more confidence in ourselves, which hopefully manifest itself in a better chance to win it.

With a little luck, lot of belief, and a lot of ability, it's possible to win it.
We have ability, we have more belief than before, and luck is what it is.

• Are they perfect? no Are they beyond reproach? no Are they responsible for all the good and bad of football in general? no*

This!

I can’t bear the “hero or villain” narrative that is constructed around our football team. This group of men aren’t perfect, some of them aren’t exactly shining role models (off the top of my head, among the team last night there have been secret love children, drunk driving, breaking Covid laws while away on England duty all over the last couple of years). But they are really good footballers who played really well throughout the tournament. That should be enough.

I have total contempt for the vile, hateful outpourings on social media etc, but I feel the same about the mawkish fetishisation of the team as heroes, role models etc. They are neither, and by setting them up on a pedestal we are just inviting the press and public to knock them down. Why can’t we just accept what they are- young men, some of them still boys, who are bloody good at football?

The medal thing looked a bit strange, but the most shocking thing in the match was the assault on Saka when his opponent deliberately pulled him to the ground by the neck of his shirt. A terrible example of the "sportsmanship" in professional level football, viewed by millions of young people. The Italian responsible should be ashamed of himself.

Luna I found this shocking too, cannot get the image out if my head- it was very much like an assault! I cannot believe the media hasn’t zoned in on it and they didn’t even mention it afterwards

Yes @Ontheblink couldn't believe it when I saw it
And wasn't that guy who did the pulling, italy's captain?!
Was really dirty behaviour there

There aren't many good losers who make it to the top in football. You have to want to win. Really really want to win. And really not want a runners up medal. And it's a normal behaviour you see in every Euro cup final, every FA cup, even the Carabao cup.

I thought both Harry Kane and Gareth Southgate gave measured and gracious interviews afterwards.

Those who said that the tennis players were more gracious, I remember seeing Djovokic out in the early rounds of Wimbledon a few years ago and he was decidedly less than gracious. I could name lots ofNick Kyrigos? Serena Williams?

[quote morepizzapls]@diddl Well I am proud of them. Very much so. With or without them parading around runner up medals.[/quote]
I am also, but my point is that they don't appear to be proud of themselves, so a lot odf people will follow their lead.

Don't be so bloody obtuse, and deliberately so. I wasn't being obtuse. Your point wasn't clear.

it's more 'civilised' because it's largely participated in by middle class folks who want to feel superior about it. It's a thin veneer of civility though, when it's still rife with racism itself.
Tennis has its issues with race/inclusivity, absolutely. But your response here still seems to make a link between more civilised behaviour and middle class people, which was my exact point.

How does it sit with this new move in football towards inclusivity/respect/stamping out racism and other bigotry?
The removal of a losers medal has no correlation to inclusivity or racism. Respect? perhaps, but it's an arguable point - one we're debating now.
Well, my posts are my contribution to the debate. As for not having a correlation to inclusivity or racism, I'd argue against that. All of these issues are partly about attitude. And they all need leading on from within the very top level of the sport.

Those who said that the tennis players were more gracious, I remember seeing Djovokic out in the early rounds of Wimbledon a few years ago and he was decidedly less than gracious. I could name lots ofNick Kyrigos? Serena Williams?

Reams could be written about Serena Williams' behaviour and the perception of it, particularly in relation to her skin colour and sex. Kyrgios and Djovokic are both lesser-loved players, because many fans don't like their behaviour and temperaments.

In this thread anyway people are specifically talking about how tennis players handle losing in a final, and comparing it to how England's footballers handled losing in a final.