do you ever feel so different that you just don't fit?

[special2shoes]

or is it just me, I think dd has changed me.
i just got told of for posting on a home birth thread, how dare I say that dd would have died if I had a home birth.
I just don't fit sometimes.

well I have to say the new topic looks just like I expected....a support topic for popel who choose to terminate because of siability...yuck

Hello everyone,
To be clear we thought the new topic was a good idea for two reasons. One because it made sense from a purely organisational point of view. It is a distinct subject and the pregnancy topic is large (this is our thinking behind the initiation of most new topics). Secondly, and of course the catalyst in this case for the new topic was that lots of folk had said they'd rather not be exposed to discussion of termination in the case of abnormal scan results and lots of other folks said they felt reluctant to post about termination in pregnancy. The new topic means it's easy to hide. That doesn't mean anyone is disallowed from expressing their opinion (whatever that may be) within it (this is Mumsnet after all), nor does it mean that people are obliged to use the topic (as opposed to pregnancy) to discuss their antenatal options. We're not trying to ghettoise anyone, neither are we trying to shut conversation down. But clearly this is a sensitive area and we can't see any harm in creating a separate topic, which many have expressed a wish/need for.
Best,
MNHQ

thank you Justine for clearing that up

Thanks Justine.

MrsT, I spent a bit of yesterday talking with a colleague of mine who works with profound LD in various organisations - about the barriers in society, and he couldn't agree with us more.

Sometimes it's the very little things that turn into the battleground.

He said that he had a big battle with one church organisation (not mine) who refused to let a lady with Down's syndrome join in with the communion because they were afraid she would dribble the wine (it's seen as the blood of Christ Himself by some churches, so cannot be spilled without everyone nearly fainting with shock and dismay). The lady concerned had to tell them that it was easy to solve - she just needed a properly designed beaker-cup in which the properly blessed drop of wine could be put.

Hooray for her! They could have solved that one themselves by talking with her, or with the charities. But instead it became a barrier.

I have similar challenges because of the dyspraxic elements of ASD and the arthritis, and hate it when I'm given a wobbly cup and saucer instead of a mug I can hold properly. Makes such a difference to me - I can then concentrate on the people instead of panicking about dropping the drink.

So easy to make inclusion possible, really. But people have to want to try, and want to listen, and want us to be there.

Instead of thinking "Aren't their lives awful - who'd want that?", there are so many small, simple things that can turn any life from problem into triumph.

So what should we do about contributing to the new board bit on antenatal testing choices in a positive way? Is it worth us putting in a thread of positive/useful information of our own on there?

I think a collection of articles such as the one written by the lady with DS would be good. I would be happy to put up my video with an explanation that ds1 is more severely (by some distance) disabled than anyone I have met with DS today (because he doesn't look disabled people struggle with that one) if there are people who want to listen. If it's going to become an area to talk only aboutsetting angels free to play in heaven then I don't really want him near there - but it might still be worth linking to publically available articles such ad the one above.

but do you think people want to hear that?
it seems to me (I have just had a quick lurk as my stomach can't take too much off it) that a lot of it seems to be about how brave people are by setting their babies free......although saying that, maybe that puts the undecided off as they are also wound up by that.

I have to say that I find all the church talk on the site thread a bit hmmmmm. I have thought about this all week(not all the time) and find it rather odd. as you know dd is in Lourdes at the moment she has gone with the HCPT and the whole thing is church based. she has been welcomed by the church, not only by them but at my dads church(although being blessed by the priest did worry her) I do think we have to remember that even if some one posts and says that they hold a position in the church, they are not speaking for the church, only for themselves.

I've just had a look at the new section and no if it stays as it is I would not be happy to put my video on a positive thread on there. It would feel obscene tbh.

Agree 2shoes but that's one reason why the comments surprised me as they're pilar opposite to the Christians I know who are very active or who represent churches

Slightlycrumpled, I think your posts have been fantastic and honestly you have nothing to feel bad about. I am really sad that you have been so affected by this if you want to CAT me you click on the envelope by my name. I don't feel comfortable posting my email up given that i am critical and judgemental and all that

slightlycrumpled when you said this yesterday:

"The realisation of how society would judge him, view him and how they would not want to protect him filled me with fear and a sadness I cannot describe. I have been naive as as a family (extended included) we just don't have that view point" it made me stop and think as our family is the same.

But I think that's a good thing - not naive- it just means your family accepts people for who they are, that it doesn't give a monkeys for 'achievement'. You should never feel its a bad thing to be. Remember I said on one of the threads about my Mum who when she comes across a bigoted attitude to LD's or disabilities just says 'why do you bother with these people, what do they know, they're idiots? Why would you let THEM upset you?'.

mrsturnip is right SC. Your family are nice, you are nice. The last thing you want to be is an uneducated tosser

mrsturnip and fio you are right, and indeed I do not want to an uneducated tosser!

As for putting something on the ante natal choices topic, I do feel that something should be there as it will have the tendancy to be very one sided, although there was a thread on pregnancy this week for women who had chosen not to test. Hopefully they will be on the new topic too. I would love for something that is positive about children with disabilities on there but goodness knows what that should be.

That link with the lady who has down syndrome is fab mrsturnip, what a determined woman she is and what a great job her mother did with her.

I think it is fine for a thread to discuss its own take on issues with the understanding that dissenters should express their views elsewhere. The 'Church' thing is odd though as although the Church should offer support to everyone regardless of their views or actions, I don't think this can be done in a 'We can all make up our own right and wrong, no one can judge' vaccuum.

I'm still confused about the church thing tbh. Although amber's post helped - because I think there is a difference between supporting a parishioner (which should be to support anything no matter what has been done I think) and publically stated views about what is right and wrong. I'm not religious so in a way it doesn't affect me, (other than ds2's interest!) but I am confused by the apparent contradiction between what has been said on here by a church representative and the c of e's stated view. But I may be missing something completely. Although I'm not sure what.

I have to say I have found the whole 'church' thing baffling, especially as I have people who were deeply religious within my family. Though to question that was somehow seen as a personal attack and not in the inquisitive nature it was intended. I don't feel any of the questions on it were answered.

x posted with mrsturnip

ds1 wants to go to chruch too. Do you think it is their age?

Yes and in ds2's case his school!

well ds1 goes to a non religious school but they don't half push the jesus thing. He was upset because the Sunday telegraph had jesus dying in it and 'poor jesus was bleeding' Jesus died to save us all etc etc. But no, they are not a religious school at all

I'm coming to this very late, I hate that people don't describe having a termination as a "choice" people seem to think there is no decision or choice to be made. My cousin and his wife terminated a pregnancy at 24 weeks due to problems with their baby, we have now been asked to stay away from some gatherings, family occasions because my dd makes them feel un-comfortable People constantly talk about how brave they are having to go through an ordeal and I have to bite my tongue everytime, I know I'm irrational when it comes to these things but their baby had minor issue in the grand scheme of things and it makes me feel like they view babies and people with disabilities as disposable/of less value. Sorry this is rambled, been up for a long time x

your family have asked you to keep your daughter away from family gatherings because it makes them feel uncomfortable that is absolutely duisgraceful. You need to go and take her, they are being completely over precious. Does your daughter have the same disability that they terminated for? Surely they knew they would have to come into contact with people with disabilities following their decision?

DS1 is going through this as well. His school is most definitely the reason, it doesn't bother me at all although it amuses me when he tells me I'm not in charge God is, and therefore if he chooses to eat five jammy dodgers at a time then really I can not say anything as I am not in charge. Always done with a very cheeky grin on his face.

The whole personal attack thing is doing my head in, when I read back through the thread actually both sides (bar a very few) were asking for the same thing. Inevitably a debate came about but why the need to keep banging the point home about supporting women in a time of despair, I don't understand. Nobody was questioning that in the first place. Most odd! Almost like a one woman crusade.

OMG lottie that is appalling. You are not irrational at all your family have totally lost the plot!

Lottie

Can not believe that well in fact sadly I can ,they made their choice , why should you and your dd be made to suffer if they have feelings of guilt whatever ,thats down to them to solve not by making you feel uncormtable if anyone needs to stay away should be them in case they make you feel uncomfortable