Mail on Sunday Magazine

[lottiejenkins]

I found this article today..........I thought it was very moving,,,, what a decision that lady made... dont think i could do it though!
www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/you/article.html?in_article_id=522925&in_page_id=1908

I dont blame annonymous posters on an internet forum or attack them verbally just because they have a differnet view.

I personally feel alot of the posters on Mumsnet are are in cloud cuckoo land with thier £300 buggies and nannies and playdates...do i get called a "hairy handed 4x4 and an old truck driver" now too????

how odd changed your mind in one post

"i would trust the judegement of one them and thier family well beyond any social worker"

More fool you.. you don't know who the hell they are in reality, do you?!

"I feel alot of the posters on Mumsnet are are in cloud cuckoo land with thier £300 buggies and nannies and playdates...do i get called a "hairy handed 4x4 and an old truck driver" now too????"

[incredulous] No. You get called a nob. Right I'm done with this thread. It's really damaging now I think. Goodbye.

Er not unless you post on a dating site listing those as your hobbies jamsam.

I'm not entirely sure what the point of the rest of your rant was. You lost me somewhere at the beginning and then again with the bit about nannies and playdates (not much talk of them in this section of the board).

And I'm not entirely sure how is trusting the judgment of social workers.

"i would trust the judegement of one them and thier family well beyond any social worker". what, you would put your child into the care of a supposed foster carer who claims to be revolted by children with sn? .

PMSL @ 'you get called a nob'.

Oh I'm off to work.

Yurt

Can I correct you.

I do not think that anyone is incapable of loving their children disabled or otherwise.

Personally the nicest thing I have read this morning is silverfrog talking about how s/he sees the positives in her/his child.

And please stop being "hairy hand"ist about 4x4 and old truck drivers

Where did the social worker bit come into it anyway?

Actually I'd rather trust my son's care to me over anyone else. Certainly over a foster carer who either thinks all disabled children are revolting or who thinks all parents of disabled children think their children are revolting (confused I am). And I certainly wouldn't trust our 4x4 driving idealist anywhere near him.

By FioFio on Tue 11-Mar-08 09:24:52
have you even read the thread?

yes.

By 2shoes on Tue 11-Mar-08 09:27:35

how odd changed your mind in one post

no..im pointing out that that is my view and i dont go round poking people with insults because of it....

By ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHands on Tue 11-Mar-08 09:29:04
"i would trust the judegement of one them and thier family well beyond any social worker"

More fool you.. you don't know who the hell they are in reality, do you?!"

no..more fool you for assuming..i do know them...
"You get called a nob"

so do you...
The originla article that this thread was started on was horrid. I dont think leaving a child in hospital and asking for foster care is at all what a decent parent would do, the writer of the article cannot claim to be bringing up a special needs child at all..

so shoot me.

taliesintraction, jamsambam and jonkat:

I address this to the 3 of you because I have neither the time nor the inclination to go searching to find out which of oyu wrote which offensive comment.

On the whole, the reactions on this thread have been because of the language used whenever a child with SN (extra needs, different needs, whatever you want to call it) has been spoken about by any of you or by JH.

We have objected to being told that we all want to give our children away and are jealous of those who have.

We have objected to being told that we are revolted by our children. we have all said plainly that we are not.

we have objected to terms such as "animal" and "ragdoll", possibly because we have come across similar opinions about our own children.

whenever we challenge these points, we are told not to judge someone else. If we do not judge them (or, in my view, challenge these abhorrant opinions) then the world will not change for our children. The children that we see as every bit as good, valuable, worthy, deserving as their NT counterparts.

whenever we challenge these points, your views see to change. These views, have (I believe in the case of Talies, I may be wrong, as I said earlier no time to check) gone from saying that we must all want ot give our children away to now saying "it's not the child you ever want to run away from it's the whole screwed up system and a society which views some children as more valuable than others" - opposing viewpoints, surely?

We on this thread (and I mean here the regulars, whether SN regulars or not) have repeatedly said that at times we despair, at times we find it hard - well, that's just life isn't it? I despair as much over dd2 as dd1. I find dd2 quite a bit more challenging, actually, she is definitely more demanding as a baby than dd1 ever was - maybe I should declare myself a saint? I am obviously more cut out to look after my disabled child than my non-disabled one.

loo..i agree with everything you have just said silverfrog, in fact i agree with alot of what has been siad on the thread, my irritation with it all is that the 'mumsnet collective' sems to think its ok to insult other posters who dare to voice an opinion that s not 'mainstream'. I think we all need to vent occasionally, we all need to own up to what we are feeling. I have never insulted anyones own way of life, intelligence or ability, i wouldnt do that in real life or online.

Please remember what the op was..about an article written by a woman who openly admits to wanted to smash her daughters head in.

I have work to do.

"I will be here untill tuesday, please try the veal.."

And telling us our children are revolting is not insulting?

jonkat was extraordinarily rude to mamazon last night.

but, jamsambam, from my reading of this thread, it was never about the non-mainstream opinions.

It is about (and I reiterate) the way that our children have been talked about.

It is about standing up and saying that it is not accepatable that in the 21st century, society is accepting views such as JH seems to hold about her disabled daughter. She is unable to admit, even now, that Immie is actually a person. "they tell me that she likes chocolate" - I would be ashamed to call myself a parent if I had to say something like that about my child. Immie may not react in the "normal" way when showing her likes and dislikes, but if JH has been unable to detect over several years that in some way Immie reacts (as she clearly does according to Tania) then it is because she does not want to see it. and that, as has been pointed out again and again is sad. Desperately sad.

The reactions on this thread have been strong because they are challenging very strong views. They are challenging the fact that JH is seen as brave for saying that her daughter is an animal, that she is not worth celebrating, that she needed to be replaced. These views are, imo, disgusting. I agree with everyone who has said that they cannot see it as brave to refuse to accept that your child has different needs.

THe strongest opinions have been stated over the fact that JH gave up Immie at 5 months old. An age when every family is still struggling with its second child. Every first child is feeling out of sorts (who is this interloper, why aren't they going home again?) and every parent is thinking "why did I think I could do this" .It would appear as though JH didn't even want ot try to fit Immie in. There was no struggle, or at least only the usual one with a newborn. Dd2 was up all night until past 5 month old, and I never htought I'd cope. I did. giving up an NT child because they don't sleep and find feedign difficult would result in a very overstretched social services, so many of us have questioned here why it is seen as brave to do so when the child is disabled.

I also think that if JH is going to stand up and say that she talks on behalf of parents of children with SN then we have every right to say she is not speaking in our name.

She does not represent me, and never will.

£300 buggies? Jamasam you are so cheap. DD's wheelchair cost £3000.
Thank goodness the taxpayer forked out as we are on benefits...

how sad that these people have hijacked a very interesting discussion.

I don't mind.

Please see Wannabe's thread.
JULIA is going to be on 'This Morning', this thursday.

ok..im bowing out here. I m (personally) glad that there are views on all side of this story, the writer needs to know that her opinion is not what the majority of parents feel, but i still think that every one needs to get a grip. the feelings of society will be reflectd in her book sales. I hope that This Morning has a phone in when she is on and someone can give her the lowdown on how her article has been perceived.

I think (and this is my opinion) that one of the reasons this thread has got so strained is because people have posted in haste and failed to realise how that tone of your voice does not carry on the internet.Im not agreeing with any one anymore!

I'm not cheap by the way, ive never had any help for my sons problems ( not through lack of trying) and im proud ( yes ..proud) that you have all admitted to enjoying you children. I was never talking about the sn threads, which ive been a part of for some time, but there is a whole generation of mums who have no idea how hard things can be. It annoys me that the two worlds are so seperated.

ok, i really have to do some work now....

Lets all see what Ms JH has to say for herself in the flesh as it were.

I have my mega stock of humble pie ready just in case.

I just hope that everyone on here has not already decided what they think.

Sorry FioFio,

Who is trollenburg?

This isn't my only posting today either.

Oh lord Jonkat - what a twatty reply!

You tell me I can't have a view unless I have read the whole book.
This book is being whored around any paper willing to print and any idiot prepared to put a microphone anywhere near her mouth.

Unless you tell me that the excerpts quoted in the papers are inaccurate lies then i am perfectly entitled to form a view based on what the woman involeved has said.
As for reading the book... ummm no -don't think so. Do you seriously think anything is going to persuade me to give this woman any additional pieces of silver.
I think she has earned quite enough already.