Surely at age 3 Co sleeping is fine ??

[Thesecretautistic]

Dd is just 3. We co sleep (always have) following guidelines . The HV wasn’t happy about it when dd was a baby but I explained it meant I slept better and we followed the rules.

Dd is still Co sleeping and it works well for us. She’s been unwell lately and we had been to the gp and i mentioned how she’s had a fever at night etc but I’d been able to keep a close eye as we cosleep. The gp has contacted the HV who has called me and wanted to talk about it as apparently it’s an issue and ‘3 year olds need their own bed to get proper rest each night’ she is saying this may be why dd isn’t meeting milestones (it’s not Co sleeping - dd has autism !)

I feel that it’s helping to create a strong bond and makes dd feel secure but I’m being told it’s the opposite.

I’ve reiterated that we co sleep safely but has anyone got any good information explaining the benefits so that I can counter what is being said ?

And if you read what I said it included I'm not saying it's the case she did, but you're closed and leaping. If professionals who know the case have suggested it there is a reason which could be looking forward when the 10 year old is still climbing into mums bed .....how many years experience have you of working with autistic children and adults?

Have you had access to portage?

We were going to self refer but the wait list was long and dd has a nursery place now to start and they only offer portage to children who aren’t at nursery

I think at that age, having their own bed as an option is good. And how do you manage when you’re away / DD stays with someone else

I am not saying the parents caused ASD of course not, the children did not have ASD but displayed signs that on investigation were linked to things like parental anxiety, being restricted to a sofa and TV whilst parent slept after night shift so had until dual interest in doing only one puzzle continually, watching the same episode on repeat and more. It means diagnosis can be complicated especially after lockdown

The thing is the more you push back they might refer you to social services. She does need the option of a bed if you refuse to get one it looks like you are more interested in fulfilling your own needs than your child's. When she gets to older age and still has no interest in sleeping in her own bed what are you going to do? It's actually better now to start the desensitisation now while she's very young Vs waiting until older. Just put the bed in the room so she knows it's there you could even get on it lie down. Show her , use a social story .

i am asian. I was co slept with my parents and my siblings until i’m 8 years old. Now we are lawyer and doctor. We dont have any weird behaviour or anything bad. Now i’m co sleeping with my 3yo aswell. Ignore your HV. Its pretty common thing in other countries.

But the OP's dd already has a diagnosis so how is any of that relevant to her situation?

Yes once in a setting you can't get it because they have access to support or are portage trained themselves. As you mention communication issues I'd recommend finding out your boroughs preferred signing for children expected to speak and learning some basic signs. We teach signalong here as it's easier and flows in the same way as you speak...a language supporting signing other borough's do it differently.
I'd also look up Gina Davies she's an amazing trainer and gives support for parents ....Gina Davies Autism support group..the lady who started Attention Autism but does eating, toileting, sleeping and more. She generally advises not adding unnecessary steps so for example don't use a potty as then you have to start from the beginning to transfer to a toilet because the child believes needing to pooh or wee means sit where I've always sat for a posh or wee...the potty....which is what I meant about the bed ...I sleep in this bed with this cover and this adult ....it's hard to change and the longer you leave it the harder it gets.
I've had a very high functioning 14 year old who could not go to school because you walked one route there and a different one home when the pathway closed he couldn't accept that you could go to school the way you came home it took 6 weeks to reassure him and calm his anxiety.

Do you have ASD?;

Read my full posts ....and even with a diagnosis parental behaviour can impact outcomes for children and no I'm not saying the parent is wrong before you leap down my throat....but if you have portage training you would know small changes improve outcomes.

I think the real issue here is not that people genuinely believe that small children should have a choice about where they sleep, and whether they prefer to sleep alone or with a parent. It is that people see co-sleeping as somehow deviating from the norm, and therefore, they think it can only be justified if the child has actively chosen it.

Yep.

I wouldn't worry at 3 but they definitely do need to transition to their own bed at some point in the next year or so

Why specifically? What is different at four (or five) to make it a problem that isn't a problem at three?

I'm not being goady/argumentative, I'm wondering what the thought process or reasoning is. Because for example, if a baby is using a bottle aged 9 months, that is OK, but at 18 months they really ought to have stopped, and the reason is that 18 month olds are less reliant on milk, so the cost (to their teeth) and benefit (drinking enough milk) is reversed by 18 months. I can't think of anything like that which applies to sleep and ages 3 / 4 / 5.

with many ASD children is it's very hard to break habits...so by building the habit of sleep together now it may be very very hard to break...It won't be easier in a year or two it will be harder[...] your better to lie in her bed or on her floor now if that's your plan.

I think this is faulty logic - things don't automatically get harder the longer you leave them, in fact with children often things get easier as they develop more and are less reliant on the thing. I think where this comes from is the idea that for example if you have a little baby aged 6/7 months, it's "easier" to sleep train them at that age than it is to let them keep co-sleeping and then try to kick them out at age 2. But that's not because the 2 year old has been co-sleeping longer so the habit is harder to break. It's just because a 2 year old is much more verbal, more persistent and can walk so you get more of a guilt trip, whereas a 6mo "just" cries and then gives up fairly quickly because they can't do anything about it.

But if you think about it, if you decided to co-sleep for 6 months age 2 and then try to move them out it will probably be just as hard, because 2 year olds generally don't like change and being told what to do because they are in that defiant toddler phase, plus many 2 year olds are still quite reliant on parental comfort or other sorts of comfort like dummies, thumb sucking, a comfort toy/blanket etc, and they don't have a very developed sense of time, so a parent leaving for the night might as well be leaving forever in their mind. In that case (thinking of a NT child here for simplicity) waiting a couple of years might actually make things easier, because 4 year olds are that bit more independent, the understand so much more, are less reliant on those props that they needed when younger, and actually many prefer to sleep alone - mine both did, even though we had coslept until they were 2. (If this is a bad example, think of something like potty training - it is often easier the older the child is as they are more verbal, better at recognising signals, more desire to be independent etc.)

To bring it back to the OP, they have presumably been cosleeping for 3 years already, so it is too late to just not start the habit in the first place, and waiting another year or two is unlikely to make much difference in the area of how entrenched the habit is. But, it probably will make a difference in things like verbal reasoning, self regulation, sense of time, ability to cope with change. These are all things which are often delayed with ASD so they will probably take longer to come than with a NT child, but that does not mean they will not develop at all.

"think this is faulty logic - things don't automatically get harder the longer you leave them, in fact with children often things get easier as they develop more and are less reliant on the thing. I think where this comes from is the idea that for example if you have a little baby aged 6/7 months, it's "easier" to sleep train them at that age than it is to let them keep co-sleeping and then try to kick them out at age 2. But that's not because the 2 year old has been co-sleeping longer so the habit is harder to break. It's just because a 2 year old is much more verbal, more persistent and can walk so you get more of a guilt trip, whereas a 6mo "just" cries and then gives up fairly quickly because they can't do anything about it.

But if you think about it, if you decided to co-sleep for 6 months age 2 and then try to move them out it will probably be just as hard, because 2 year olds generally don't like change and being told what to do because they are in that defiant toddler phase, plus many 2 year olds are still quite reliant on parental comfort or other sorts of comfort like dummies, thumb sucking, a comfort toy/blanket etc, and they don't have a very developed sense of time, so a parent leaving for the night might as well be leaving forever in their mind. In that case (thinking of a NT child here for simplicity) waiting a couple of years might actually make things easier, because 4 year olds are that bit more independent, the understand so much more, are less reliant on those props that they needed when younger, and actually many prefer to sleep alone - mine both did, even though we had coslept until they were 2. (If this is a bad example, think of something like potty training - it is often easier the older the child is as they are more verbal, better at recognising signals, more desire to be independent etc.)

To bring it back to the OP, they have presumably been cosleeping for 3 years already, so it is too late to just not start the habit in the first place, and waiting another year or two is unlikely to make much difference in the area of how entrenched the habit is. But, it probably will make a difference in things like verbal reasoning, self regulation, sense of time, ability to cope with change. These are all things which are often delayed with ASD so they will probably take longer to come than with a NT child, but that does not mean they will not develop at all."
@BertieBotts
Not sure what your experience of supporting children with a diagnosis of ASD is but I've been doing it for 30 years now. It's well known that they are much more reliant on routine and changes cause distress hence why you get common issues like milk must be in my Peter rabbit cup no other cup will do, water must be in my Teletubbies cup etc. The longer a habit is established the harder it is to change....ask people to make a cup of tea and they can't change when they put the milk in....but on for individuals on the spectrum causes distress.
It's easier to support a child with ASD to potty train by going straight to a toilet and by building an association with toileting by always doing nappy changes in the bathroom.
I'm currently working with a 10 year old who still thinks bed equals mums bed mums getting no sleep and the marriage is really strained.

You can't assume all children's communication skills will develop in the same way or that you can have a nice chat and throw a few stickers so why build a problem .....which is why I said to the op to bear it in mind.

My three year old has her own bed and indeed she starts off the night in it, but without fail at about four am she is in with us. Everyone gets a relatively unbroken sleep this way and it works for us so I see no harm. But really, I do agree she should have the option of her own bed even if it’s not used yet! I wouldn’t bother with the HV. Too often they have too much to say and give out dated information or even completely incorrect information. Some are wonderful but others you can do without the hassle!

Well said, yummymummy.

I understand that totally but she HAS got a bed
you keep saying this, she doesn't have her own bed in her own room, she shares YOUR bed. Although she may find change difficult, she currently doesn't know having her own bed is a choice.

@Thesecretautistic it is your choice and it isn’t. It’s almost like you’re afraid if she does have a bed of her own, she will use it and you’re not ready until she’s 4/5.

I think co-sleeping is fantastic. It has a lot of benefits. But I do not see the issue in getting her a bed - you don’t even have to discuss it with her or tell her she will use it eventually, it can just be in her room. It can be used as a daybed/sofa for reading and playing.
it would change absolutely nothing about your situation other than removing the safeguarding concerns that have been raised and yet you still refuse. That’s what I find odd. You would literally carry on as you are now.

the only thing that might change is if DD sees the bed and wants to try it, however unlikely you think that.

it’s really important for them ti have their own space ready for when they want it.

DS for example isnt potty trained at 3. He just hasn’t been ready. But I’ve had various potties just incase he decided he wanted to use them - it hasn’t changed the fact he’s still in nappies and wasn’t ready they were just there, to talk about if he asked and use if he wanted. We have just got to the stage where he wants to try and is interested. But it would be like me refusing to get a potty because he’s not ready and not comfortable and happier in nappies, even though there would be no pressure to use it immediately.

I feel like you only posted to be told you’re right

Oh and agree the health visitor is talking absolutely nonsense, and damaging nonsense, that co sleeping would cause any autism traits, that’s just utterly ridiculous.

@jannier i’m not but my kids are. Both of them. Both of them co sleep with me

But the safeguarding issue surely around this is for children who literally have NO bed NOT children without a choice of beds ? It’s to protect rose literally sleeping on floors or sofas ?

My dd has little understanding currently and can be overwhelmed by choices she doesn’t comprehend. She’s settled and ok with bed / sleep currently and we are really focusing on 2 other ‘big’ things - starting nursery and toilet training. Waiting till 4-5 or when she’s ready for sleeping independently (when she understands) isn’t going to harm her in any way

*those

It is an issue she doesn't have her own bed, honestly take the numerous pp saying getting her own bed on board and stop being deliberately obtuse, is it so difficult to just put a bed in her room?

Why should I be dictated to and made to change something when it’s not in my dd best interest at the current time and by two so called ‘professionals’ who are querying an asd diagnosis made by other professionals who are actually specialists in ASD (and fully aware we co sleep and they had no issues)

I didn’t post to be told I was right, I posted initially for good info sources to explain to HV why cosleeping is ok but some of the attitudes on here made me realise it’s better to just fake compliance with these kind of people as if I fight they will just weaponise safeguarding against me as I’m not parenting how they think I should.

As I’ve said before dd has little understanding and little communication and we are dealing with other transitions right now. I know what’s best for my child not a gp we’ve seen about 3 times in dds life or a HV we’ve seen twice !

But the safeguarding issue surely around this is for children who literally have NO bed NOT children without a choice of beds ? It’s to protect rose literally sleeping on floors or sofas ?

It's 'literally' not just about that, sorry - you're wrong!

We’ve always let ours sleep with us if they wake in the night, youngest is 5.5 and probably only comes in once a fortnight now. At 3 both of ours came in most nights.