EHCP support thread no. 6

[Needlenardlenoo]

This thread is to support everyone engaged in the EHCP process. The purpose is two fold: so that you don't feel alone if you're involved with it, and so you can easily find posters who are experienced with the various difficulties to help point you in the right direction, whether that be by giving general advice, telling you specifically what action should, or could, be taken in a particular situation, or countering common myths you will hear, such as:

"Your child is not X enough to get an EHCP"
"The school has to do/pay Y first"
"EHCPs are only for Z situation"
"The local authority do X/say Y/won't do Z" (the SEN Code 2014 applies to the whole of England: it doesn't vary by local authority). [Wales and Scotland have different regimes].

It is particularly important at the moment to understand clearly what your child's rights actually are in law (not what the school or LA or Sendias say they are), when the government are actively trying to remove EHCPs and are leaking stories regularly to the media, with the intention, I suspect, of deflecting attention from their own shortcomings onto parents who are already in a difficult situation. If in doubt, the charity IPSEA has neutral and factual information:
https://www.ipsea.org.uk/

Here are links to previous threads:

Original EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4
EHCP support thread no. 5 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5309128-ehcp-support-thread-no-5?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share [please post on here till it's full]

@KeepItSpinning Thanks. Yes, I'm requesting an expedited hearing.

Would a hearing on the papers ever be advisable if the professional reports are strong and detailed, specified, quantified? That would help move the date up but my concern would be around the WD and how that would be finalised.

At our last tribunal, the LA didn't respond to the WD until half an hour before the hearing began and a large part of the hearing focused on agreeing changes. Seemed a ridiculous use of a judge's / panelists' time.

I wouldn’t recommend the case being heard on the papers for an EOTIS hearing.

Although the WD process can, and should, still be part of the appeal for a paper hearing.

Does anyone know what sort of turn around time sos sen would have for a pre action letter? They say they can't give timescale, which is fair enough, just wondering if anyone has used them recently.

@ThaneOfGlamis it depends on how complex the case is, but it will be at least a few weeks, possibly longer.

So you are aware some LAs are ignoring pre-action letters unless they are written by someone with a legal aid contract. They know if they ignore, you still have to find someone with a legal aid contract with capacity to take on the case, which can take perseverance at the moment, and when you find someone, they will sometimes want to send another pre-action letter via them. So some LAs are sometimes taking the chance of kicking the can down the road.

Thank you. We have spoken to sos sen and a solicitor, but obviously the solicitor would be 10-20 times the cost, so it's a balancing act. The local authority are ignoring everything from us and kid has been out of education for over two years. Not really sure we have much in the way of possibilities other than pre action letter. They have agreed eotis, they just aren't actually providing it.

If the provision in F isn’t being provided and the LA is ignoring you, a pre-action letter is the right way to go. I just wanted to let you know what some LAs are doing.

Sorry wrong thread.

Thank you. On the plus side, we have nothing now, so nothing to lose.

After some advice, as part of AR we submitted a private EP report, LA kept saying their own EP service would need to consider it and give advice as to whether they agreed with the provision but after many months it seems the EP service have declined to do so, LA are now saying they need to send out their EP service to do a whole new assessment as they don’t have an accurate and up-to-date picture of his needs. Our report was completed within School within the past year it is completely accurate and up-to-date they just don’t like what it suggests. The other option they have given is the sign off the final plan to give me my tribunal rights. I know they were planning to force me to tribunal anyway and agree the one to one at the working document stage because I did a subject access request which uncovered this written in supervision notes from a couple of months ago. They are trying to sell the new EP involvement as a possible early intervention service to avoid tribunal but given what I’ve seen, I’m obviously highly suspicious of this. Wonder if others have had experience of this tactic and whether it is worth pursuing in the hope they might actually agree to something or whether I should just go straight to Tribunal? At the moment they have no evidence the recommended provision is not needed but I guess there is no way to force them to pay in the interim?

@RareAzureBee LAs do not need to ratify independent reports, conduct quality assurance/quality control on independent reports or have them signed off in any way. The LA doesn’t need to reassess either.

If it has been ‘many months’, the LA is in breach of the AR timescales. The AR process should have been as follows:

1. Updated advice and information should have been circulated at least 2 weeks prior to the AR meeting.
2. The AR meeting.
3. Within 2 weeks of the AR meeting, a report should have been circulated.
4. Within 4 weeks of the AR meeting, the LA should have informed you if they proposed to amend or not. If they do, they should have sent the amendment notice/draft/notice of amendment/proposed amendments (whatever you/the LA wants to call it) at the same time and you should have been given at least 15 days to comment on the amendments and state your preferred placement. Your representations can include proposed amendments from independent reports.
5. Then if the LA is going to amend, they should have finalised within 8 weeks of sending the proposed amendments, so max of 12 weeks from the AR meeting.

I would be pushing the LA to finalise, then appeal. The LA is trying delaying tactics when you already know they are going to force you to appeal. The LA can always concede if they are inclined to agree to the amendments required. The LA may well seek up to date evidence during the appeal, anyway. Once in appeal, I would see if the EP who did the assessment for you would be willing to do an addendum.

You can’t force the LA to provide the provision at the moment.

Thanks for replying it’s a total joke isn’t it, school backs the EP that the provision is needed, all the evidence does, they have used the report to write an amended draft plan so they accept the needs are there they just don’t want to pay for it.

Hi, I need some advice please
as I feel clueless in this area.
my child is in year 7 and has an SEN plan from primary school. I enquired about applying for an EHCP while she was still in primary but the school put me off, they said it will be declined as there are children in the school more severe needs than mine and did not get one. I also contacted the private assessor we had and she also said my child won’t get one and not to waste my time.

after reading that most EHCPs are given after appeals I am feeling that I made a mistake not trying.
And certainly annoyed with myself.

will it be harder now my child’s in secondary school?

DC has dyslexia, low processing speed and anxiety.

Definitely do it. My dd did not struggle much in primary school but has done massively since starting secondary last year and I wish I’d done it much sooner. She is autistic and was on the SEN register, but the fact she had no EHCP made it much more difficult for us to unlock support for her. You can apply for a needs assessment yourself - you don’t have to wait for the school to do it. I applied in January and DD’s EHCP was finalised in July.

Forgot to say my dd struggles with anxiety too and it became much worse in Y7, to the point she now hasn’t been in school for almost a year. Not saying this will happen for your dd too (i genuinely hope she’s doing well in secondary!) but I think it’s good to be prepared, considering her needs.

@Leafywool
Thank you, I will do it.

She has been complaining that her school is too strict which has stressed her out a bit and wants to move to a school where some of her friends are. Ideally I want her to stay but not
sure how much her current school will help yet.

You should avoid a school move during the application for EHCP. Does the alternative school have in year places?

@BreakfastClub It’s not too late for an EHCP. You can get an EHCP in secondary (and even older). On this website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use to request an EHCNA. Unfortunately, some schools and professionals incorrectly tell parents their child won’t get &/or doesn’t need an EHCP. Other DC in the school having SEN aren’t relevant to you.

Like Phiney, I would avoid moving until you either have an EHCP or you have has a refusal and you appeal.

Have you met with the SENCO at the current school? What support are they providing? Did DD do transition visits before Y7? If so, how did they go?

@Phineyj
I will wait after application, but obviously no guarantee we will get the EHCP

I’m annoyed her school put us off and they never mentioned the chance of appealing.

@KeepItSpinning
thank you so much for this.

i have not met the SENCO yet. They have not contacted me, all I know is they requested I info from DCs primary school.
i sent an email to them today requesting a meeting to discuss support offered and what we can expect from them etc.

DC had the transition day and it went well.
i
I think the big change form school to large school and the seriousness has hit DC.

she was given extra support at primary school once we had the SEN plan. My worry is she won’t receive as much help in secondary.

@BreakfastClub don’t rely on the school being proactive. As well as requesting a meeting with the SENCO, if you have (or can work out) their email address, email DD’s form tutor and subject teachers. Don’t rely on the school passing information on.

Totally agree with this. Things started to go south with my dd around this time last year too (Y7), and I had to really push to get school to take me seriously at first. I had to meet with the Y7 transition coordinator first, then Head of Year and then finally got a response from the SENDCO after a couple of months when I submitted our EHCNA. I will say that the school did support us well once they understood what was going on, but it took a lot of advocating from my side to get there. I do think when you don’t have an EHCP they like to fob you off to the non-specialist staff first so keep pushing to speak to them as much as possible.

Hey all, wondering if I could possibly ask for a bit more advice. My DD had refusal to issue in August. We tried for mediation but LA couldn't/ wouldn't give us a date in time, so now going to appeal. Have until October 3. I have everything ready but suddenly having a wobble and wondering to get some legal advice. Been quoted about £2000 for them to look over our 100 pages of evidence, my 'reasons for appeal', and then give us a one hour call and written advice. It feels like a lot of money especially after all the money we've already paid for assessments and her support etc but then, maybe it's worth investing in to get it over the line? Another question: do we need to decide about legal representation now, before we submit the appeal (as that's the most beneficial time to ensure our appeal is as strong as possible on submission), or would we potentially be able to amend our appeal/ documentation at a later date if we decided to get a lawyer involved later down the line? Grateful for any advice.

@Runningshoes99 you don’t need to pay someone, and if you do want to, you don’t need to pay £2k. No, you don’t need to decide about representation now.

100 pages of evidence - I think this is a refusal to issue? Look at your evidence carefully. Are all 100 pages truly relevant? The page limit shouldn’t be seen as a target. You may also want to add new/updated evidence at a later date. While it is possible to go over the page limit in some cases, SENDIST is stricter than they used to be over the page limit and you may find not all 100 pages are actually relevant/needed/helpful.

Thanks so much for your advice. Yes it's an appeal following refusal to issue. I know what you mean about the 100 page limit but I'm struggling to see how I can avoid it - the combination of the Local authority's documents relating to the needs assessment (their EP report, OT report, SALT report and their draft EHCP) totals 54 pages, and obviously I feel I can't omit any of that evidence as it would be seen as cherry picking the bits that suit our case, but obviously what supports our case more is our private ep report, SALT and OT (15 pages each), our supportive statement from the school and from her specialist teacher. Combined with our 'reasons for appeal' document setting out our case it easily reaches 100 pages.

Is there not a risk that if we get legal representation at a later stage then it's sort of pointless as our case has already been made? Or does it not work like that?

I would definitely apply, can do it yourself.

My daughter has just been awarded EHCP and dhe just started year 9. She was okay in primary but secondary she just can't cope with.

School wouldn't apply for it as like you they said there are children with higher needs who haven't got one amd they don't think she would be successful. My daughter does mask alot though, but as time went on EBSA started, severe anxiety and loads more.

I applied for needs assessment LA said no, I went to mediation they agreed to assess then. That was March if this year, got draft EHCP 3rd July, and final EHCP 3rd september.

Bow it isn't over for us I am going to mediate again sections B,F and nosy definitely I....... BUT considering everyone kept telling me no she doesn't need one, and now it has been determined she actually does. Now it's been a brutal battle that isn't over don't get me wrong. But I would tell anyone if your child is struggling apply