EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

Unfortunately the tribunal outcome was not ideal, weekly sensory integration therapy and speech therapy was not agreed.

Oral evidence from the NHS witnesses was favoured over the written evidence in the independent reports and a lot of my proposed amendments were dismissed.

The tribunal has agreed OT and SLT time (42 hours in total) to support school in implementing, reviewing and updating strategies, some training, reviewing outcomes, needs and provisions and providing a report for and attending the annual review.

The hours agreed are different to that in the independent reports but better than nothing I guess and I’m assuming this input will be from the NHS therapists.

The tribunal agreed that DD needs full-time 1:1 TA support but did not agree to quantify this in hours.

Just wanted to update the thread in case anyone finds it useful as I found it really helpful to read others’ positive and not so positive experiences when I was in the early stages of the process.

@thatsnotmygarden will it be okay if I PM you as just had a couple of specific questions re. the outcome? Thanks.

@Ponche sorry the outcome wasn’t what you hoped for. Of course you can PM.

It is worth looking for someone with capacity to look over the case to see if you have grounds for challenging the decision. Although even if you have grounds, some decide not to and just make use of their FtT appeal rights the next time they have the right of appeal.

@thatsnotmygarden would you check over a tribunal bundle before it's sent, for a fee? If so, could you PM me please?

@Needlenardlenoo I’m sorry I’m not taking on casework at the moment. Last term was busy with things for my DC and this term is set to be equally busy. On top of the normal day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month stuff, DS1 had major surgery in September (recovery so far is going well but recovery from scoliosis surgery takes a long time and we found out he needs an operation on one of his hips), PIP and credits only NS ESA claims, phase transfer reviews, Deputyship and Deprivation of Liberty Order applications to CoP for DS1. We have an ongoing challenge with the ICB over one aspect of DS1’s continuing care funding that they may force all the way to JR. We should have had the hearing for DS2’s EHCP content appeal, but it was vacated and relisted for this year because of a lack of court time. And it is looking likely we will have to appeal DS1&3’s EHCP following their reviews. I don’t have the capacity to take on more.

BTW, do you mean tribunal bundle? That is what you are sent rather than what you send.

OK, thank you. You have a lot going on!

Would you recommend anyone? I used Talking SENse once but didn't think they knew much I didn't.

@Needlenardlenoo apologies for dumping all that on the thread! It has been a long day. It is never-ending at the moment.

Have you thought about a Direct Access Barrister? I can recommend Alice De Coverley. I haven’t used her personally, but I know people, including some MN’ers, who have. If I needed a barrister (including if I only needed advice or paperwork support rather than full representation), she would be my first choice. She is at the top of her game. Well regarded by parents, the courts and government alike.

Direct Access Barristers don’t hold your hand in the same way as solicitors do. For example, they will tell you when you can do something yourself, which is no bad thing. You are capable and educated, so a DAB will be fine. The benefit is they are cheaper than a solicitor.

If that isn’t something you want to consider, you could see if SOSSEN has capacity for 1:1 work. (Or using their grounds of appeal drafting service as I think that may be what you mean by Tribunal bundle.)

The above is with the caveat that if it is a choice between paying for support and paying for independent assessments, you should choose the latter. The best representation in England can only work with the evidence available.

Thanks @thatsnotmygarden - don't apologise - it sounds like you're dealing with more at once than many people do in entire lifetimes. It sounds very stressful.

It's actually for a friend, not me personally, and I will mention the barrister idea, however, I did a similar tribunal successfully myself, so I will also offer to read over the paperwork.

Just a moan. DC at specialist independent, can’t elaborate on them as take too long. Let’s just say the reality is different from the image projected.

LA are typical, ignore process, cut corners etc. Had phase transition yr11 review. I complained about the process and it was postponed. No more reports added in despite me pointing out what was needed. I requested soc care assessment and they give a general worker from FAST team who misled me so I complained. LA been faffing around and ignoring dealing with that so no soc care input for AR.

Appealing yr10 plan as child dyslexic and assistive tech not written into plan. Had draft from yr11 AR back from SENCO, YP wants to trial mainstream college supported on an outreach basis by school. SENCO had put one small sentence in about this. Left lots of provision in that won’t suit college. I’ve majorly re-drafted putting lots of emphasis on school’s roll in outreach. SENCO will no doubt strip all that our before returning to LA.

Difficulty I have is trying to work with a school who seems to have an agenda which I don’t understand at all. Sorry, rant over! Thanks

I'm sorry to hear that @Fififizz.

I don't entirely understand my school's agenda either, and DC is at the one where I teach! Education is in a right old mess at the moment.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, couldn’t agree more! In a complete mess and a broken system! Fought so hard for placement with independent reports/Tribunal and it’s been traumatic and difficult ever since. It’s comforting to know that you can relate too!

@Fififizz Some independent SS shouldn’t be schools. Even more rely on the reputation when the reality is very different.

Easier said than done, but I would ignore the school’s games. If the report that has been circulated following the AR isn’t accurate, email the LA. If only for the paper trail. You will get the chance to directly comment on proposed amendments, anyway, whatever the school writes. You can propose any amendments necessary then. And the appeal WD will also give you the opportunity.

We are currently awaiting the EP report, will they mention whether needs can be met at current school?

Can our mainstream also say they can’t meet needs when the EHCP is drafted?

The EP report should describe the provision required. It won’t name a specific placement.

The LA will consult placements, most of the time that includes consulting the current placement. School consulted can respond to the consultation with objections (which should be based on the law), but the LA may still name them if they are not wholly independent.

I couldn’t agree more. The shenanigans that go on are astonishing!

I will try and ignore the shenanigans. I have to try preserve a cordial relationship, despite the deliberate blocking, being difficult at every turn etc. Everything is made impossibly difficult.

Our plan has been a behemoth of a thing with too many reports from too many people. I definitely don’t want a reassessment but some of the reports are old now and I’m pretty sure are outside the timeframes given for Tribunal. I have grounds to request an LA EP as new diagnoses and needs changed plus phase transition but am sure it will be poor as per previous experiences. Do you know anyone who’s good at writing specific reports please? There are so many already I’m wondering if more of an addendum EP report would suffice. My other option is just to try and find other bits of evidence to support various amendments to the plan.

YP wants to try outreach support from school to access mainstream college so unfortunately the plan will have to be realistic about what college will accept and the support school will provide under this arrangement more than his actual needs. The battles over getting tech have been ongoing despite lots of existing professional recommendations for this! I know it shouldn’t be this way around but I do know a plan which has too much in it is unlikely to be accepted by college.

Thanks

@Fififizz not all EPs will write an addendum and it doesn’t sound like that would be suitable, anyway. It sounds like DS needs a full assessment given the change of needs, time since last assessment and phase transfer.

You could look at Patsy Kershaw, Vivienne Clifford, Nick Palmer, Craig Tribe, Ruth Birnbaum, Stephanie Warman or Stephanie Satariano. Jemma Levy is excellent but I understand she isn’t working at the moment so it depend on when you are looking for an assessment to happen.

When I said report, I didn’t mean professional reports, although updated advice and information should have been sought prior to the AR meeting (this isn’t a reassessment of needs or as comprehensive as e.g. Tribunal standard reports), I meant the report circulated by the school within 2 weeks of the AR meeting. If you disagree with that, email the LA.

You don’t need the college to accept it. They aren’t wholly independent, therefore ultimately you don’t need their agreement.

@thatsnotmygarden

Thanks for that info. Yes, I know which report you meant. I’ll mull it over. I think I’d rather deal with the Tribunal than try pin LA or school down. What I meant by college was that I’ve been told both school who we’d remain on roll with and they’d get the funding and the independent college have to offer a place. It feels messy as even though school are responsible for the EHCP provision they aren’t providing most of the teaching so likely college won’t be happy if the EHCP in class teaching provision is too much! The school will be providing scaffolding around the experience via outreach staff who offer daily support outside the classroom. It’s hard to explain how it works and school have been vague in the AR! Thanks for all of your help.

@Fififizz so the college is wholly independent? You would need them to agree then, but not if they aren’t wholly independent.

Is the current school a wholly independent school or a s41 independent? I think the former? If so, you are right that they would also need to offer a place.

It isn’t a rare scenario post 16. Either as a formal dual placement or as outreach/partnership between a SS and a mainstream college or school. So it shouldn’t be new to the LA.

@thatsnotmygarden

Thanks, I’m glad you recognise the model. In the world of SEND madness you speak with clarity.

So, yes SS is wholly independent. I’ve been told college is too. No idea how I check that but also a different LA runs it.

As my common sense would tell me. If SS holds the EHCP budget then the system should be sharing out the provision in the plan as to who delivers what. But, obviously in the mad world of SEND this all has to be decided by 31.3 when the college might not have even offered a place so obviously the division of labour couldn’t/didn’t happen at the AR as college not invited as nothing’s definite and school have to be re-consulted with. So we’ve had the AR, I’ve suggested amendments to the plan but it’s all completely bonkers as it hasn’t been possible to transition plan anything with any certainty. Plus LA provision panel might not agree to ongoing expense of SS placement so might refuse. It’s nonsensical to me. 🤷‍♀️

@thatsnotmygarden Sorry to hear that you have a lot on your plate at the moment. Your advice has been so helpful to me and many others.

I have just sent off our position statement and a few small pieces of evidence we currently have (final evidence deadline is tomorrow).

I am concerned though that we don't yet have the bigger pieces (private OT report should be end of this week; private EP assessment not being done until April). Potentially may also use CAMHS and ADHD reports.

I have sent off a SEND7 for the EP report inclusion, and currently waiting out the five working days LA consultation before I send one off for the OT report.

But in the scary official bumph, the deadline for the evidence bundle is 10 Feb? And something about if the evidence is late, it won't be seen by the tribunal in advance?

(The final hearing date isn't until December!)

@Fififizz you can search for the college here. There aren’t many independent colleges. If it is run by any LA, it isn’t wholly independent.

Focus on provision rather than funding. The LA can give the college some funding directly. The LA will tell you they can’t, but they can.

@thatsnotmygarden

Thank you that’s very helpful indeed. College is under an LA albeit a different one. In my view the SS fees should cover everything. It’s not an insubstantial amount.

@Fififizz be sure of what you mean when you say under an LA. All establishments, even independent ones, are in an LA but that doesn’t make them maintained by the LA. You need to look at the type of placement rather than just the LA.

If the college isn’t wholly independent, the college can be included in arrangements, even if they don’t agree.

Having said that, admittance to the college is different to admittance to specific courses within the college. Although, sometimes if the EHCP is worded correctly, only certain courses will fulfil it.

It is an NMSS rather than an independent school, but if you want to look at an example that I don’t think is that far from you (IIRC and I’m not mixing you up with someone else), look at the NMSS near you. They have previously run outreach partnerships with (not wholly independent) colleges.

@thatsnotmygarden

Thanks, it says it’s open under establishment status and it’s a general FE college under type.

Yes sorry SS is a NMSS. I keep calling it independent but that’s officially what it is listed as. Just checked it now.

The NMSS does briefly reference the post 16 outreach model on its website. It doesn’t specify much detail though and it seems a very back to front process having to hammer out the details before places have been offered or LA has agreed to fund. I think you’re right to focus on the provision and hope the rest falls into place with or without another Tribunal.

@Fififizz in that case, I think the school DS attends is the school I mentioned as an example. They know what the outreach model looks like and have done it previously; don’t let them fool you. It has worked well for some of their previous pupils. Some of whom have gone on to university.

The colleges they have used previously aren't independent colleges. And the school isn’t an independent school.

@thatsnotmygarden

Thanks, yes it’s been done it before. Can’t fathom why their approach seems to be so offhand though. We’ll see if an offer happens. Our experience has been an eye opener.