EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

@thatsnotmygarden
Sorry, just twigged. Was trying to fathom IIRC, nope that’s not ours. Not sure which one that is.

@Fififizz IIRC is if I remember correctly. As in if I remember correctly whereabouts you are and I haven’t mixed you up with another poster.

@thatsnotmygarden just wanted to say I’m so sorry for all you’re going through. You’ve been such a help and support to me and so many others on this thread. We appreciate you! 💐

@thatsnotmygarden
🤦‍♀️🤣 I was wracking my already overstimulated and overstretched brain trying to figure out where that was! I took RC as Royal College and couldn’t work out the rest. I think you likely have IIRC! The college says it’s open and just checked on Chat what that means and it says it means independent and not under LEA control however as far as I know there’s a precedent for this type of arrangement happening there. You would think, knowing it’s been done before, that it’d be possible to explain the arrangements and shared responsibilities at the AR in explicit terms and state them clearly in the AR report and put them in EHCP! I dream on. Thanks for all of your help.

@Fififizz on the link I posted “open” is the “establishment status” rather than the type. The options under the establishment status are ‘open’, ‘closed’, ‘proposed to open’ and ‘open, but proposed to close’. All types of establishments will have an establishment status. Listing open doesn’t mean it is independent.

To give you an example from a different college. MidKent college here has ‘Further Education’ under ‘school type’ and ‘General Further Education College’ under ‘ Further education type’ and ‘open’ next to ‘establishment status’. This college is not an independent college. One of the colleges the NMSS near you uses has the same as MidKent college. Coincidently, Mid Kent also sometimes works with an independent SS.

Thanks @Bearlionfalcon.

@thatsnotmygarden

Thanks, yes it’s listed in the same format. So whatever it is it’s not wholly independent. I’m guessing it’s easier to establish those that are because they must declare it and as you said previously they’re aren’t very many! Why all the shenanigans and lack of clarity at the AR I don’t know but the post 16 model currently under contemplation isn’t new and has been done before. Thank you!

It really helps to think of the EHCP as a “contract” between you and the LA. It only protects your child if it’s written precisely. If the language is vague (words like “access to” or “regular support”), there’s nothing enforceable behind it.
What makes the biggest difference is going through the draft line by line and matching each need in section B with a specific provision in section F, including frequency, who delivers it, and how it’s monitored. Once you start highlighting those links, it becomes clear where gaps or woolly wording are hiding.
I totally get how exhausting this process is, but you’re doing exactly the right thing by looking carefully now. In my experience fixing a draft at this stage saves so much stress later on.

Hi all. Had quite a snooty refusal from tribunal to issue LA with direction to consult with clinical psychologist and SALT.

Re: CP, they refer to fact that DD already has a referral to CYPMHS for assessment (which she actually had on Monday and I think likely they will recommend treatment for OCD) and they think we're trying to expedite that process, which could potentially have a detrimental effect on other children on the waiting list! They said we can include paperwork to do with that assessment as late evidence.

It was actually more to do with the fact that I thought evidence had to stand up to EHCP and tribunal standards?

I feel quite personally affronted that they think I was trying to do that to bypass waiting lists!

And they refused SALT because an appeal against refusal to issue is apparently not the right route to seek additional information from professionals. 🤷‍♀️

I know the tribunal is objective, but now I'm worried that I've put a black mark against us...

I should also (finally) have DD's private OT report tomorrow or Saturday. I have yet to send in a SEND7 for that. I think I read somewhere that you can send the SEND7 and evidence in together without waiting for a response from SENDIST? (The five working days for LA consultation has already lapsed - unsurprisingly no response).

Once you have sought the LA’s views you can submit the SEND7 with the La response/non-response and late evidence to SENDIST copying in the LA. You don’t submit the SEND7 alone and then wait for a response before submitting the late evidence itself.

TBH, for a RtI appeal, CP and SALT probably aren’t required. You have enough other evidence.

Don’t panic about having a black mark.

Thank you @thatsnotmygarden, I appreciate your response.

I've already submitted a SEND7 to request admission of late private EP report (but evidence won't be available until May as assessment isn't until April). Should I resend the SEND7 when I send that report?

I'm not too worried about the refusal; just that I annoyed them and they misinterpreted my intentions!

Do CYPMHS produce a report after initial assessments?

I think the OT report will be quite strong - the OT has given some indication. Solidly, the school's questionnaires are reasonably in line with ours (they had few concerns when the assessment was done two years ago).

There should be some kind of clinic letter following the CAMHS appt. It won’t be a full report but you can still use it as evidence.

You will need to do a new SEND7 for the OT report. You don’t need to mention the EP report on this SEND7. Then when you get the EP report, do the same for that.

Hi, im currently going to tribunal for sections B,F and I.
I have sent over all the paper work but the clerk of the tribunal has emailed me to say some of the reports dont open.
I have tried again and still not working.
Any ideas on what I can do?

Can you print them to PDF and resave them then send again?

Do they open if you send an email to yourself (or DH/DP if you have one)?

Check they aren’t password protected.
Check the size and format.

Yep they open, and I've sent them to a family member and they can open also.
I couldnt print them but I could screen shot them and then scan them and then pdf them (thats what I did the second time).
And apparently they still can not open them.

Have you tried calling SENDIST? They are usually helpful. They may be able to see what you need to change. Is the school supportive? If so, this might be where they can help with tech issues. I think it is easier to see what is going on. It is difficult to know what is happening over the internet. It is wise to be careful with SENDIASS, but this might also be something they can physically help with.

Pp meant print to pdf rather than physically print.

If you are really struggling, you could post the documents if you can find somewhere (school, library, friend) to print them.

I have got a printer so thats not a problem, it just wont let me, so I do think there is a problem school end.
They have sent them over to me twice but again still the same.
Im waiting to hear back from the school but im worried about how long its going to take as the email from the clerk said ASAP.

This is evidenced I need, so frustrating.

Although the clerk said ASAP, I wouldn’t panic. Your appeal isn’t imminent so there is plenty of time to resolve this without it being urgent.

I managed to print them on my sons lap top then scan them, then put them in to a PDF.
Then send them back to the laptop and then email them.
Hopefully this works, but if it dont I have the hard copies now so will send them instead.

So the LA approved our request for EOTAS so now I have to work out what to do next. It's all a bit confusing. I'm having a few calls with providers as I'm keen to get as much of it managed as possible, is this the right approach? I spoke to Resources for Autism (anyone have any experience?) who said they can put together a full 25 hour a week package tailored with a main mentor who manages it and builds trust first, can do holistic elements like swimming, exercise, special interests etc. But they couldn't do the SALT or OT requirement so we would have to source this separately.

Does this sound like a good option? Is there any benefit to sourcing all the elements separately? To be honest the idea of doing all the finances and arranging everything myself sounds like a nightmare and I'm already struggling to manage this all with a full time job, so having someone else manage the package does sound good.

My first post here, I was sent over from another thread. I’ve been on a journey of 11 years and four school settings with dd

I am now lost as to why. No real explanations as yet, she gives strong signs of being G and T from babyhood but seems NT (doesn’t appear to fit criteria GP Psyc and assessor informally ran through criteria at other apts) and yet she is unable to cope with school. No problems in school, friends, teachers or lessons. No specific complaints to address (academic or environmental) just can’t tolerate it and never has been able to.

Symptoms of crushing fatigue and depletion and chronic nausea and vomiting. If we push through it gives way to worse. Intrusive thoughts, pain, less eating due to the terrible nausea.

She is hyper mobile and POTS test pending (some erratic heart rates). Otherwise we don’t have a clue. Very ambitious and able. Extrovert, now managing only two lessons a day. Sec 19 pending.

If Home Educated she’s absolutely fine.

I don’t know how to get her through her GCSE’s and hope LA will agree at panel to online provision.

if this rings any bells and anyone can throw me a bone please do.

EHCNA is on a long backlog and she leaves school next year.

I’m sorry I haven’t read any of the thread as yet.

@Lelivre this sounds much more physiological than neurodiverse. My dd has POTS / hypermobility. Has the GP done a complete set of bloods including early morning cortisol, thyroid, vitamin D, b12 etc? If docs suspect POTS then it is worth having a look at the POTS uk website for things to consider. There is also a helpful gu8ide for schools - have a look and check school are doing everything relevant! Has this always been the case or has it come on at a particular time? Have you considered EDS - have a look at the EDS support group site, as this is a connective tissue disorder and can affect much more than "just" joints.

Sadly our experience is that unless you have a sympathetic GP, teenage girls are somewhat dismissed as "anxious", "depressed", "PMT", eating disorder etc.... My advice is to do as much research as you can, then educate school, who may or may not listen 😞

Re the specific school difficulties, is the main issue that of attendance and concentration?

Hello,

Does anyone know if it is legal for the LA to try to name a Mainstream School for Secondary Transfer, without consulting with them?

Thanks in advance

Welcome @Lelivre. From your post, I would want an ASD assessment, not just an informal screening, as well as a comprehensive physical assessment.

EHCNA is on a long backlog and she leaves school next year.

The EHCP timescales aren’t optional. What week are you on? Is the LA in breach of the timescales? EHCPs can continue until 25, or 26 in some circumstances, if necessary, so don’t panic.

@JemJam1 the LA should have consulted with the school.

@LittlePickleHead the devil is in the detail. Agreement to leave I blank is only part of the story. Make sure it is a proper EOTAS/EOTIS package. There is so much to a proper package that is overlooked. Make sure it covers things like professional time (e.g. for training, planning, report writing, MDTs, updated advice and information, ARs, liaison with other staff and you, EOTAS/EOTIS co-ordinator to lead, co-ordinator and oversee the package, input from staff that aren’t part of the direct weekly provision such as EP time.)m equipment, tech and assistive tech, insurances, resources, subscriptions/memberships, payroll company, etc.

It can help to make a table. Needs from B (it can help to break it down into the different areas of needs), provision from F (and any provision that is not in F but is essential for the delivery of the provision in F), provider, cost (one-off/weekly/monthly/termly/yearly), outcome. You can also add a column for how each part of the PB will be paid (DPs, third party arrangements, commissioned directly). Don’t worry if you aren’t sure about all the details yet.

And make a list of any provision that isn’t in F but is necessary in order for the LA to fulfil their duties under s19.

It can also help to make a mock timetable. It doesn’t have to be 10.% accurate. If provision needs to be child-led/self-directed, that can still be accommodated in a timetable. If provision needs to be built up, you can still make a timetable. This enables you to show it is a considered, organised, reasonable and, importantly, viable plan. You can add references to the EHCP and evidence to support each provision on the timetable.

This helps so everyone can see the needs, what the provision will look like, how the provision will meet those needs, that there is some kind of future plan going forward beyond the past (too many people get bogged down in focusing on the past). Similar to how a school has an aims and ethos (and sometimes vision) statement, prospectus and SEN information report.

Some people prefer the LA commissioning provision directly. Others don’t. Some have a mix. The benefit of having DPs is more control. The downside is more work even if you have a payroll company and EOTAS/EOTIS co-ordinator.

DS3 goes to an outward bounds AP 2 days a week. That is the only element of DS1&3’s packages that is commissioned directly. I prefer it that way.

Unless the provider is registered, I don’t believe RFA is, they cannot provide 25 hours because of the rules about illegal unregistered schools.

RFA often focus on transitioning back to a setting at some point. For some, that is a deal breaker. For my DSs, I would never use a provider who had that aim.

I would not want a mentor managing the package. The EOTAS/EOTIS co-ordinator has far more to it than what a mentor would do.

I would also want a tutor. It doesn’t have to be academic tuition, but I would want a tutor to be part of the package.