EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

We are finally at the stage where the LA are ready to finalise the EHCP. The case worker has noted "be aware that post-16 places are not allocated by the naming within an EHCP. You will still need to apply for and meet any entry requirements for any courses she is interested in, as set by the sixth form."

I am confused by this! She is currently yr11. Obviously phase transfer deadline has passed so they will name both current and next phase when they finalise I think. I haven't seen anywhere that post 16 places are treated any differently to other school places? I think they are saying that she needs to apply and if she is offered a place they will name it? But they have also stated "We will be naming XX school and XX sixth form". I could go back and ask but I think the case worker is getting very snippy with me for asking too many questions and I don't actually trust they will follow the law, rather they frequently quote their own version to me which I know is wrong. So want to be prepared before I ask....

We are currently 11 days short of the anniversary of us applying for an EHCP 🙄

They are two different issues. The naming of the institution in EHCPs and admittance to specific courses within the institution.

Post 16 settings are named in section I of the EHCP. Just like for school aged DC, non-wholly independent settings can be named even if they object and the same exceptions apply. And just like for selective schools, selective sixth forms may try to object if DC is not deemed academically suitable/not deemed qualified/hasn't met the selective requirements/whatever phrasing that LA/school wants to use on the basis the setting is unsuitable for DC’s age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs. If the LA doesn’t name them on this basis, depending on the individual circumstances, it can sometimes be successfully challenged.

However, that doesn’t always translate to being admitted to specific courses within the institution. Although sometimes the EHCP will be written in a way that they should be on specific courses/learning certain things.

To give a practical example, @handmademitlove a year 11 might be admitted to the 6th form I teach in (because they'd met the general requirements of 5 GCSEs at 9-4) but then they might not be permitted to take Economics A-level without a 5 in Maths and a 6 in English Language, but they could take Business BTEC with 4s in those subjects.

Thank you both. She has an unconditional offer from the sixth form, so I think the next step is to check the specific courses she wants, which I guess we can't do until after results day. Just need to get through the exams first!

Our solicitor sent our latest WD to the independent school we want and they've come back with concerns around some of the provisions. They say they don't have anyone who delivers EF support or precision Maths, but could look at pricing this in; the solicitor is saying that this could be an issue at tribunal, if the cost increases significantly vs the MS unit the LA have proposed. TBH I'm a little surprised the school doesn't already have these things in place given that EF difficulties are a hallmark of ND. (Plus the EF provision was in the original EHCP they were consulted on; the precision Maths was originally grouped into a hybrid provision that also included small group Maths and I suggested separating them out in F as neither was being delivered in MS.)

DH's view is that getting into the school is the only goal right now, and we should be willing to compromise. I can see his point (it seems like provision never really gets delivered anyway), but it also makes me nervous that we'll just end up in another situation where provision is watered down or woolly and DC's needs aren't being met. That said, I think in such a small school, with a high staff:child ratio, they are going to get so much more support than ever before, and the staff should, ideally, be able to respond to needs in a way that's never been possible in MS. Any advice?

To get the wholly independent school you need to show the LA’s proposed placement can’t meet needs &/or it isn’t unreasonable public expenditure. The cost comparison is why you should be demonstrating the LA’s proposed placement can’t meet needs rather than just relying on the latter. It is likely the placement you want is going to be significantly more expensive than the unit anyway even without the 2 provisions you mention.

Provision should be based on what is reasonably required to meet needs in B, not written to fit a placement. If the provision is required, then having the school but without the provision could lead to unmet needs still. A small school doesn’t automatically equal more support, unfortunately. And removing provision that is actually required may make it more likely the unit can meet needs. But equally, look at what is actually required. If the hybrid maths provision was tightened up would precision maths be deliverable as part of that rather than a separate provision.

If the EHCP is watertight, it is enforceable, so it absolutely can and does get delivered even if the LA try to absolve themselves of responsibility for it.

Thanks. So we have 1) an EP report saying DC requires a small school with small classes; 2) a letter from current SENCo saying the MS school can no longer meet needs and DC requires a smaller setting; and 3) expected this week: a psychiatrist report stating that DC requires a small school with small classes and that a unit within a MS is not appropriate; the doctor is also recommending sensory OT and art/drama/movement (ie, non-verbal) therapy.

Is this enough evidence to prove the LA's preference is inappropriate and to pressure them to concede before the hearing?

The current costings from the LA suggest that the independent school costs ~£30k more than the MS unit. But the MS unit has indicated that DC will probably need more support than they usually provide to transition back into school, so the cost difference might be smaller. I don't know how much the OT, therapy and EF provisions would add to either. But if our evidence proves the unit isn't suitable, then I really don't want to compromise on provision. It feels like we should be in a strong position to make sure DC gets everything they need, regardless of cost.

Do you have that in writing from the head of the unit?

I do think you are in a strong position and I wouldn’t be dropping provision you think is required just because of the cost. Although that doesn’t always mean the LA will concede, I’m afraid. With the caveat that I haven’t seen the evidence, your evidence sounds promising as long as the wording around the smaller class sizes etc. is detailed, specified and quantified rather than vague and woolly requires small classes.

A psychiatrist’s recommendation for sensory OT is unlikely to be sufficient for proper ongoing sensory OT involvement because a report covering needs, provision and outcomes with detailed, specified and quantified language related to SIOT will be outside their remit.

@thatsnotmygarden Yes, in their very short consultation response, the Head of the unit said they thought they could "in theory" meet DC's needs "but we have been unable to meet with the young person who is currently out of school... we envisage DC would need additional support to start off with because of their reported reluctance to go to school. This is difficult to judge given that we have not been able to speak to the young person." (I eventually did visit the unit but couldn't convince DC to come along.)

We have an OT report (almost two years old) which also recommends SIOT (safe and sound protocol).

Hello. I've posted for advice on these threads before and the feedback has been super welcome, but I've not kept up with the other posts I'm afraid. Hope it's okay to post again.

I wonder if someone can shed some light on what the LA are trying to do. We have a brand new EHCP which as far as we know is still in draft. The LA have consulted with multiple schools and have had 3 "no's" back from 3 mainstream secondaries. They have had a "yes" from a new independent SEMH provision, which is also our parental preference and our child's preference (she's 14). It's the only place she has visited having refused to come to see anywhere else. It's a bit of a miracle she is open to this at all.

In the meantime, the LA have (very belatedly) arranged some online tuition, 2 hours a day due to start next week which we and our daughter (somewhat cautiously) is open to. It's been a fight to get them to agree online rather than at our home.

Her case went before the funding panel regarding the offer of a place at the independent SEMH provision, and they have suggested putting her placement on hold to explore whether she will engage with an AP first. The AP mentioned is from a local charitable foundation working with young people out of school and seeking to reengage them. I am flummoxed as to what this will achieve as the AP isn't a school or a school placement and I can't see why it makes sense to attempt to introduce her to an unfamiliar environment only to then attempt to redo this process at a school setting, bearing in mind they have only had one yes anyway and it's from our preferred setting. Surely it makes no sense to hold off approving the placement, to try and divert us into AP? Can they even do this? I'm now suspicious that them arranging this private tutor and offering the charity AP is some attempt to get themselves off the hook of having to find her a school placement. She is currently not on roll anywhere so I'm aware the onus is currently on them to place her.

It's worth saying it's almost impossible I will be able to get her to even visit this place without much cajoling from my side, which will be hard when I myself cannot see the logic.

Should we be engaging with this tutor or the AP?

Our caseworker said she will push this straight back to the funding panel in view of my feedback, but can anyone see what they are trying to do here?

Thank you so much in advance.

You need to push the LA to finalise. Then appeal if necessary. What week are you on?

The LA’s motive is financial. Their aim is to avoid funding an independent SS. In the hope they can fob you offer with a few hours AP per week (which even if you were going for EOTAS would not be sufficient).

Just so you are aware, the LA can name non-wholly independent schools even if the school objects.

Thank you. The LA are over time (it's been 15 months total). She's been out of a placement altogether since Feb half term.

The proposed provision is wholly independent but unless they have a yes from anywhere else...

That’s my point, they wouldn’t need a ‘yes’ to be able to name a non-wholly independent school. They could name them even if they object. So, when the LA finalises, it isn’t a done deal that they won’t name somewhere else and force you to appeal.

Is that the case even if the setting has said they can't meet need?

Hello all,

Just found this amazing thread and hope some of you may be able to help with my situation. I'll try to summarise although as I'm sure you all know, these situations are often really complex.

Son is year 9. No issues throughout primary, fell apart at secondary. Missed summer term of year 7 almost entirely. Then went back on very reduced hours in SEN hub for year 8 - increased time in school well but not able to go into the classroom at all. Year 9 started super positively with him managing lots of classroom lessons and in school almost full time. By October half term he was back in burnout and since then has been doing 2.5 hours a day in the hub and very little formal learning of any kind.

EHCP needs assessment was done towards end of year 8 and EHCP issued early in year 9 - at the time when he was at his best. Primary recommendations were to gradually increase time in school/class until he was fully re-integrated and all provision is geared towards that.

School and I are now in agreement that he's not going to be able to re-integrate into the classroom - we've had no progress at all since October half term in time in school either.

Had emergency review in February and LA agreed to fund some temporary alternative provision for the summer term of year 9 - he's doing one day a week at an outdoor centre and is supposed to have 3 hours tutoring at home but this hasn't been arranged yet. I'm still waiting for the updated final EHCP from the review meeting.

There is as yet no plan for year 10 and beyond. He's academically able and wants GCSEs at least in core subjects. He is unlikely to be able to achieve that in current setting. There are no LA maintained specialist locally that could meet need and I'm not sure we'd get him in a classroom there either tbh.

What do I do? He's not getting an education at all really at the moment. I requested an updated EP assessment and they said no because there was no evidence that one was needed. But then said they won't change the named setting in his EHCP without updated EP assessment. But current setting clearly can't meet need as he's barely there and when he is, he's not accessing the curriculum.

I just feel stuck and I don't know what to do next. Any suggestions would be really helpful as I feel that I can't see the wood for the trees :-(

Thank you!

So we finally have an EHCP. With two weeks to go until GCSE exams start!

I am planning to appeal due to the lack of OT identified needs and provision - given they didn't do an OT assessment. School have said they can only meet need for 6th form if OT is provided.

Any pointers on what to put in the SEND35 other than "she obviously has issues that need OT and they didn't do an assessment"....

I also think I need to submit a SAR to the LA. And possibly to school as despite their support, they keep saying they can't share documents with me as the LA don't allow it. I assume these would have to be shared under a SAR?

Hi, I received the draft EHCP that was due to be finalised today and after receiving advice on here, I mentioned the regs state minimum 15 days etc. They replied 'I will not issue the final EHCP until you confirm you have spoken to the school' It is still closed until Monday.

As I was making my suggestions for the draft EHCP, I noticed that the LA Ed Psych has put under sensory, Needs: support to understand and safely manage his sensory processing needs.
Outcome: will be supported to develop understanding and use of suitable/safe sensory strategies, proprioceptive input, tactile etc
Provision: see OT report, Frequency as required Delivered by Occupation Therapy (as determined by this service)
DC has severe motor difficulties, motor planning, that will severely affect his education, hand writing, safety etc

Does any of what the LA said mean anything? I quoted on the amendments from the OT report and the LA Ed Psych.

I have received an email today saying, You should receive the final (amended) EHCP in due course. So I presume they have just finalised, after saying they would not issue it until I confirm I had spoke to the school. (I certainly didn't trust their word)

And under my OT quotes, they have replied that those quotes can be added following receipt of the OT report. Which they received 3 months ago, surely this can't be right.

What do I do now? Or is there somewhere I should be going to for help, advice? I can't just keep asking questions on here :-)
I feel the already wrote help guides, just won't cover this situation.

Thank you for any help !

@Bitstuck1 the LA EP report is too vague and woolly (e.g. what ‘support’, ‘as required’ needs removing, so does ‘as determined by the service’), which is not surprising since OT needs/provision are outside an EP’s remit. The LA should have considered the OT report though.

Saying you will receive the final in due course doesn’t mean they have already finalised. If they had, you should have received a copy.

You are probably going to need to appeal, so push the LA to finalise then appeal.

@suitcaseofdreams the LA is responsible for ensuring DS receives a suitable full-time education. IPSEA has a model letter you can use to formally request this. If you have already done this and the LA has ignored you/delayed/refused, you need a pre-action letter. The LA is also responsible for anything detailed, specified and quantified in F. IPSEA also has a model letter for this and it can be enforced in the same way.

No maintained SS locally but have you looked at other SS within travelling distance (normally considered 1hr15 at secondary)?

If it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school, there is EOTAS/EOTIS. You will need better evidence for this.

I would push the LA to finalise then appeal. The LA has 8 weeks from sending you the amendment notice to finalise. So it should be a maximum of 12 weeks from the review meeting.

If you have to appeal following the AR, you could look at an independent EP report (and other reports if possible). It wouldn’t be the route I would go down, but you could formally request a reassessment of needs. No guarantee the LA would agree, but there would be the right of appeal.

@handmademitlove correspondence with the LA would be covered by a SAR. Best to make SARs to the school and LA then cross check the disclosures.

As a basic starting point, state section B is not complete and accurate. Not all needs are identified. As a result, Section F is not complete or accurate and does not detail, specify and quantify all the SEP reasonably required. Go on to state anything in particular that needs amending (you can use your response to the draft as a starting point). This can include the fact section B is incomplete because the LA did not commission an OT assessment therefore not all SEN are identified resulting in section B being an incomplete and inaccurate reflection of DD’s SEN and thus SEP is missing from section F. Cross reference any evidence, legislation and case law - but don’t worry if you don’t yet have all the evidence and don’t get bogged down in legislation and case law. And remember, you can add to your case further down the line.

@TripleRocks yes, the LA could name a non-wholly independent school and force you to appeal even if the school objects.

@thatsnotmygarden thank you for this :-) I fear I cannot argue the lack of full time education as in order to avoid fines/prosecution I sign a half termly 'flexi schooling' agreement. So from the LA's POV he is getting a full time education between school and home. Except that a) he's not actually getting an education at school as he mostly just hangs out with the therapy dog and does word searches and b) he's not getting any education at home at all because I work full time and he's too anxious to access any learning without 1:1 support
Maybe it would be better if he just stopped attending school, and I didn't sign any more agreements? Then I could push for proper alternative education under section 19?

I personally think he probably needs EOTAS - any type of school environment is just too overwhelming for him and his anxiety around formal learning is too high. But assume I'll need the private EP report for that? And we'll lose another year as appealing now will mean a 12 month wait for tribunal. And given that he's now in year 9 we are at a crucial point for GCSEs...

I fear I cannot argue the lack of full time education as in order to avoid fines/prosecution I sign a half termly 'flexi schooling' agreement.

@suitcaseofdreams you don’t need to do this if you don’t want to. You can inform the school and LA (in writing) you are no longer flexi-schooling, DS is unable to attend full time (the absences should be authorised, therefore no fines/prosecution) and the LA needs to provide provision so DS receives a suitable full-time education. Section 19 provision can still be in place if DS can only attend school part time. The requirement is to ensure he requires a suitable, full-time education.

Yes, you will need evidence. I would start with independent EP and OT if you can. If you can’t afford them and aren’t entitled to legal aid, contact Parents in Need.

Try not to worry about the time pressure GCSEs, especially if you are going to pursue EOTAS/EOTIS. EHCPs can continue until 25, or 26 in some cases. There will still be a wait, but you can request an expedited hearing on the basis DS is not in school full time.

Hello, can I join?

I have two DC with EHCPs. One is doing relatively well. My 10 year old, however, is struggling.

We are at panel on Wednesday re decision for specialist. She is in year 5 and the idea of her going into year 6 at her school makes me feel sick.

She hasn't been in class since before Christmas. Doesn't integrate with her peers. Her day is 95% on her own with a 1-1 in isolation, the other 5% is over in foundation playing with the 4 and 5 year olds.

She doesn't access any learning. On a good day she does 10 minutes of Maths and 10 minutes of English. She does no other subjects.

She has no friends and no desire to be with her year. She saw her teacher for 5 minutes today, the only time she has seen her all week. She's "taught" by TAs exclusively.

My fear for panel is that they are going to say she has near 100% attendance and at last assessment in December was ARE, although she was greater depth in Summer year 4 so that is a drop in itself. But those mean she is doing okay and doesn't need a move.

I actually work for my local IAS so I know the law and know what should and must happen, but as soon as it is my child it is like my brain fails and I know nothing. It is such a weird feeling to go from someone deemed highly competent at work yet completely incompetent doing the same thing for my own!

And also, my job means if I need support I have to ask someone from my team and some things just don't feel comfortable to ask!

Hello @Sendcrisis2025. I have 3 DSs with EHCPs; I understand about it being different when it is your own. I highly doubt you are completely incompetent. We have ‘spoken’ previously under different names and your posts are anything but incompetent. The knowledge is still there, even with the more personal element.

Hi All - we heard this week that the LA will send across an EHCP draft within 4 weeks for my son who is 5 and in reception. I’m just gathering all the info I can to make sure I’m ready and these threads have been useful so far, so thank you.

This is the start of the journey, but i can already see these threads being a lifeline!

Congratulations @Paintingflowers and good luck!