EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

@handmademitlove Wow. Mine is 18%; marginally better I suppose...

I looked at the rate of EHCPs not issued after assessment - 5% nationally and 7.7% for my LA... Though I suppose a good proportion of those issued are after tribunal!

@Namechangeagain80 I found the statistics really interesting reading last time I looked - I think after they refused to assess, I was looking for some background info. My LA has a much higher rate of refusal to assess, but a lower rate of refusal to issue. I guess they gatekeep much earlier in the process! so if you make it through the assessment, you are much more likely to actually need an EHCP. How sad though... I know very few people who have EHCPs who have not had to appeal at some point in the process. I really want to know which LAs are much better - as mathematically, there must be some who are much better than average to cancel out the 3.6%! Might have to go poking around again.... when I am not writing appeals docs or complaint letters! SEND35 submitted today for B&F. Will let you all know once I hear how long the dates are!

@handmademitlove Mine has higher refusal rates than nationally at both refusal to assess and refusal to issue (though much higher refusal to assess in the first place).

Did you have to appeal the decision to issue as well? I am fully prepared that I will need to... Luckily the LA conceded before it reached tribunal on refusal to assess.

You're right, there must be LAs with higher than average acceptances.. Possibly those with lower numbers overall? I think I did see some stats previously on Special Needs Jungle.

A relief to get it sent off, hope you hear soon and the dates aren't ridiculously far away. It is crazy how time-consuming it all is. I must be spending nearly as much time and effort on the whole process as I am in my paid employment.

@Namechangeagain80 no, they agreed to issue which was a surprise, given I had to fight every other step of the way. To be fair, the EP was quite clear within minutes of meeting her that she was "complex"! I think the refusal to issue was based on our LA gatekeeping that if attendance is fine and academic levels are age expected, they don't need any help..... then the EHCPs they do issue are not actually very good so they high a high level of tribunals relating to B&F.
In other good news, following OT's refusal to assess as not known to service, I requested the GP put in a new referral. It was initially rejected but I had a robust discussion with the OT team and they agreed to reconsider. Thankfully they have now agreed to see her, so by the time the tribunal comes round it should be much clearer that she needs the support!

@handmademitlove Ah, that's something at least... Though as you say, if they can get away with issuing something that's not worth the paper it's written on anyway...

That's great news, well done. Is that the general process in your trust? I did look into how NHS sensory OT referrals worked here when DD originally had her private assessment and it was so long-winded. Basically you first have to watch a video with techniques, implement them for three months and make a record of it, submit it to the school who then make a referral.... Then if you're accepted, you get a zoom call with an OT who gives further advice. Then you're discharged and if there are still issues, you have to go back to the school to be re-referred and only then do you get to actually see someone.

And this is the process that the LA says we need to do! It's actually insane. I mean, I could easily submit a record now of everything we've tried, but what a colossal waste of time and energy.

At the moment I am perhaps foolishly pinning my hopes on either something coming out of the complaints process or the EP recommending another OT assessment be done (or the private one somehow be taken into account, though it's not EHCP standardised and 18 months old).

I do also need to try emailing the other contacts @thatsnotmygarden suggested.

@Namechangeagain80 yes that sounds similar to ours. She was seen by OT at primary so when they declined the referral on the basis that her needs could be served by watching the videos, I called and ask how exactly, given the videos (definitely aimed at preschool / primary) would help my ks4 child given there were no videos for the issues she was referred for. Then we had a discussion about how I had spent 8 years implementing the strategies from the sensory workshop I attended (with them!) and now needed additional support as she was unable to move towards adulthood and independence without it.
The GP did say when I asked them to re-refer that they had never had a referral accepted! How ridiculous is that?

My advice is to jump through the hoops as it were - watch the (often very basic!) videos, document all you are doing, then go back and try again! If school are on board it helps. They often know exactly what to say to meet criteria.

I was reading some of the news articles about the proposal to limit ehcps to special schools and remove the health / social care aspects. Where we are, health and social care rarely feature as the NHS / social services locally refuse to consider anyone who isn't already in their system. I wonder what difference that would actually make?

We won our appeal! DC2 will be going to a small independent secondary for ND kids. Totally attuned staff well versed in ASD, ADHD, PDA, EBSA and burnout, low arousal setting, small class of 5-8 kids max. What a relief!

The outcome of DC1's tribunal is still pending due to the LA being absolutely rubbish. But I think our case is possibly even stronger than for DC2, so fingers crossed the panel agree.

I understand that the LA has five weeks to amend the EHCP, which puts us near the end of June.

The tribunal's guidelines also say that a change of school named in the EHCP should happen within two weeks. Is there any chance that DC2 could actually start at the school that soon, or is that only if B&F are not being amended? I'm guessing the amendments to the EHCP need to be finalised first?

Meanwhile, still no word from the LA about the s.19 AP I requested in February or the SARs I made months ago. Still, delighted right now to have some good news to share! Hang in there, everyone.

And thank you so much to the group (especially @thatsnotmygarden ) for all the hand-holding throughout.

That's great news @SpaceInvader321 - you must be so pleased.

@handmademitlove while I think it's good that someone in authority has publicly acknowledged that the NHS has more less washed its hands of the EHCP system, I don't think restricting EHCPs (or something newly named) to special schools would help at all. It just demonstrates that these politicians have no grasp of the level of needs being met in mainstream.

The issue with lack of access to paediatricians in the UK goes much wider than EHCP issues, anyway.

Easier said than done, but I would try to ignore the rumours of limiting EHCPs to SS. It is one (ridiculous) suggestion that may be part of a subsequent white paper. It is unlikely to be made law. It is a stupid idea that could never work. Not least because EHCPs only for those in SS misses the fact the options aren’t MS vs SS, and that DC have a right to a mainstream education except in very limited circumstances - remove EHCPs from MS and more will pursue SS. Even if it does somehow miraculously get passed, there will be a significant timescale between it being in a white paper and actually being passed. Even then it would most likely be phased in just like the transition to EHCP from Statements was.

@SpaceInvader321 hurrah. Get in contact with the school to start planning transition, but DC is highly unlikely to start within 2 weeks. It probably doesn’t come as a surprise to you but the 5 weeks assumes the LA doesn’t play games.

OMBUDSMAN OR PRE ACTION LETTER

Not receiving provision in section F. Complained to la they apogised and said was dependent on external company but offered not date. That was stage 1 of complaints, do I go back to stage 2 even though they've responded and not given date, OMBUDSMAN or pre action letter?

Thanks all

@923a56712 assuming the provision is detailed, specified and quantified in F rather than vague and woolly, pre-action letter. Although first you should try warning them of JR if you haven’t already. The timescales involved mean exhausting the LA’s complaints process then complaining to the LGO is not a suitable remedy.

If the wording is vague and woolly (e.g. access to, would benefit from, regular, opportunities to/for, as required, or equivalent), it can’t be enforced and you should work to improve the wording via the review process. You can request an early review.

@thatsnotmygarden thanks. Section F is detailed and specified and quantified. The la agreed to it last year before conclusion of tribunal and said they had funding in place for it but it's never been delivered

Hi all! I’m currently awaiting my sons EHCP draft, which should be here either today or tomorrow. Part of the reason for the EHCP is that my son hasn’t coped at secondary - he’s currently in year 9 but hasn’t attended at all this academic year.

School have called a meeting tomorrow to discuss putting ‘alternative provision’ in for him - their suggestion is a course at a 14-16 college but the expectation would still be that he’d attend his current school 4 days a week.

School have been pressuring/asking me for weeks what we want to do so they can start looking at things their end, but..

1. is it premature to be making decisions when I haven’t even had the bloody draft yet, or is this standard practice?

1. I don’t think that their suggestion is going to be helpful for him - wanting him to attend 4 days a week when he can’t even attend for 30 minutes a day

1. Part of me says they are making unsuitable suggestions so that I look to move him elsewhere?

Any advice appreciated 🙏

@10pfreddos I think it depends if they are likely to say they can meet need or whether you are looking at a change of provision? If AP helps with reintegration then it can be beneficial, but if it is simply trying to shift the "problem", I would argue they need to wait. DDs school started putting things in place as soon as they got the EP report as they knew this would be included in the EHCP and that she was staying. Perhaps look at what the ep report says as a starting point - if what they are suggesting does not fit with that you can point it out to them 🙂

@handmademitlove Thanks for your response!
School have confused me, because a few weeks ago the SENCO was saying that although she'd love him back, she doesn't think he'd be able to and even if he did, we'll be in this same situation again in 6 months time. But then last week, they were pushing this college course heavily and saying they need to make the referral asap.

I personally think that a change of provision is needed... there is a great independent school nearby for neurodivergent children who are academically capable. Very nurturing and bespoke to the young person and would immediately resolve a lot of the current issues we have.
However, my son is currently adamant he doesn't want to go to a new school, but I suspect it's the anxiety talking and the fact he will be seen as 'different' by his 'friends'.

Starting to think about placements isn’t premature. It is something you should be doing because you don’t get long to make representations and state your preferred placement. You don’t have to make final decisions about the placement will will say is your preferred placement for the EHCP now.

The school may be pushing to discuss the 14-16 college course because of the dates applications need to be made by. Some have closing dates for starting next academic year that are fast approaching.

Some DC would be able to attend school if they had increased support via the EHCP - would DS fall into that category? Presumably you think not?

Has alternative provision not been put in place already?

@thatsnotmygarden
That's a fair point, I realise I have a short amount of time to consider options.

I think the school have confused me by saying they don't think he'll be able to go back/don't think it's going to be right for him and then pushing the 14-16 college.

But no, I don't think they'll be able to meet his needs there if I'm honest. I'll see what the school say tomorrow and share my thoughts.

And no, they wouldn't source alternative provision as they don't offer it until year 10. Year 7-9 only have access to support 'in house'.

@10pfreddos Have you had any education while he has not been able to attend school this year? They should have put something in place already - AP is not just other educational sites, but could include tutoring at home, online access etc. They also can't say he isn't entitled to anything until yr10!

DfE information is here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/657995f0254aaa000d050bff/Arranging_education_for_children_who_cannot_attend_school_because_of_health_needs.pdf

and ipsea guidance here https://www.ipsea.org.uk/faqs/what-support-should-the-la-give-me-if-my-child-is-out-of-school-for-any-other-reason

It is the LA rather than the school with the responsibility for ensuring DC unable to attend school still receive a suitable full-time education under section 19 of the Education Act 1996.

Absolutely - but for most parents, the school is the first port of call and if having a meeting, it is an opportunity to bring it up. However, @10pfreddos , if the school do not respond positively, the LA are the ones who are ultimately responsible!

The school does not have to offer alternative provision, though. They don’t have to put it in place. They are free to say they don’t use APs until Y10.

And the LA’s duty under s19 is non-delegable. Despite what many LAs think.

Me again. Thinking if doing my own pre action letter, with help from AI! Anyway im currently in stage 2 of complaints procedure with LA for failure to supply section f provision can I still issue pap with complaint live?

Hi all we have our tribunal for appeal in a week and a half against refusal to issue for DS (11). The tribunals service have just sent an email:

“the above hearing is due to take place as an ORAL Hearing.
I am emailing you today to seek confirmation that both parties would consider the matter to be suitable for a Paper Hearing (this means that no attendance is required from either party - Parents or the Local Authority and that the appeal will be decided on the written evidence provided).”

My initial thoughts would be a big no. It seems it would just be a cost and time saving exercise for them if they got their way. Any ideas? Thanks!