EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

Hi, thanks for the new thread 🙂

Not been on in a while, but (un)surprisingly 🙄, there's been little movement on the EHCP front.

So, the LA conceded the appeal for refusal to assess in March. They have a deadline of 21 May to make a decision on whether to issue, but is unlikely to meet this, considering "XX's case has not yet been assigned to an EP. Due to the high number of cases, cases must be allocated based upon when the request for an assessment comes in, and so it taking longer than usual for cases to be allocated in order to account for this."

Meanwhile, they are still refusing to consult with an OT, SALT and psychologist, due to the fact that DD is not known to their services. In response to my last email about it and letter to the DCS, they escalated it to a stage 1 complaint. Response to that was doubling down on the fact that DD was not known to their services and that the EP was able to assess for a wide range of needs - and that if they considered additional assessment to be necessary, they would then request that. Quoted the SEND COP to me.

I then said I wanted to escalate to stage 2 complaint and quoted the SEND COP back at them, including bits about the need to consult with a range of professionals to conduct a full needs assessment. And also the bit about how they need to conduct it efficiently - so my argument was that an EP assessment hasn't even been done yet (and is likely to breach timescales), other assessments IMO are likely to be needed, so surely it's more efficient and timely to do them all at the same time. Anyway, we shall see. Not expecting much.

I think I recall someone else having the same issue and also going through the complaints process about it - did that make any difference?

Is there anything else I should be doing? In advance of the EP assessment, I was thinking of getting down on paper all of DD's needs identified and suspected so far (will basically be a version of my appeal letter), including quotes from eg OT, SENCO, student social worker DD had sessions with, to send to the EP. I think I can get across DD's needs much more comprehensively that way. Would this also help the case to the EP for recommending other assessments if it includes detailed information from eg the OT report?

Does the EP receive information (ie application and appeal documentation) from the LA?

So in some ways we are in a better position than when I made the EHCNA application in that DD has made it in to school every day now for about two months, including some days recently on time (first time since December). However, every day there is still a huge amount of coaxing required and we still often have days with meltdowns where she doesn't go in until mid-morning or lunch. Her attendance for the academic year is still hovering around 72%.

Obviously there are other areas of need, but do you think this improvement in attendance will be held against us? I guess it could be argued that some of what has helped are things not ordinarily provided by the school (for example, we are paying privately for play therapy, also she had 1:1 sessions with a student social worker at the school who she bonded well with - these have now ended as the student finished her placement).

Historically, DD has generally been a bit more settled towards the end of the academic year, so I also feel that just because there has been some improvement, there's no way that it's necessarily going to be sustainable.

Also, I've not yet sent in any evidence/views myself to the LA. Considering an EP hasn't even yet been appointed, do you think I have a bit more time or should I still do this sooner, rather than later?

Does the LA look at evidence already submitted (ie for the appeal for refusal to assess, like previous OT assessment) or does it literally just look at assessments etc done for the EHCNA?

@Namechangeagain80 in our case, our complaints went nowhere as the LA said such decisions were up to the professional judgement of the team and as such they couldn't direct them to do anything 🙄 holding that response for a complaint to the LGO when all this is over! They did eventually do a SALT assessment, but are holding fast on OT. In fact, the OT clincal lead objected to the EP saying she needed specialist advice as they argued the EP was not qualified to decide if she needed assessment or not, and had the EP removed that from the EP report 😯.
We have finalised the EHCP and are now preparing to appeal.

I would keep pushing but accept you may have to appeal to get things done properly (your LA sounds like mine!).

You can start preparing your contribution, but to be honest they simply take what is written in the EP report and cut and paste. So what you write is only useful for giving a steer to the assessors on what you think the issues are, in our experience.

Let the LA know you know the timescales are statutory and you will take further action should they breach them because they would be frustrating your right of appeal. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, and unfortunately this means when LAs see they can get away with breaching the timescales, they will continue to do so. Those parents who advocate for their DC do get seen quicker.

For the refusal to seek advice and information under Reg 6(1)(h), you could try contacting the Designated Medical Officer/Designated Clinical Officer (different areas have different terms/roles). You could try contacting the Monitoring Officer. In theory, you could threaten JR. However, most don’t go down this route for failure to seek advice and information under Reg 6(1)(h), not least because it doesn’t guarantee a watertight report.

I would send all evidence you have sooner rather than later even if you relied on it for appeal

Don’t rely on the LA or school giving the EP any information. It can help to make a list of anything you would like to say and a timeline of events. Think about things like: strengths and needs, what is working well, what isn’t working, what has been tried but hasn’t worked, what is needed but unable to be delivered, DD’s likes/dislikes/what makes DD happy, what is important to DD/you and what is important for DD, how DD communicates/how others communicate with them, what DD wants to do in the future/aspirations, a bit about family/any other important people in DD’s life, important history/developmental history.

It can also help to write a list of questions to ask the EP such as what assessments will be undertaken, what observations will be done (e.g. structured and unstructured times, with peers, with adults), will they meet with DD 1:1, how long they will spend with DD. Ask if the EP will make recommendations for the need for further assessments where they believe they are necessary - sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t.

And things of note to tell them such as asking them to ensure the report is detailed, specified and quantified and requesting the report is sent to you at the same time as it is sent to the LA - you may receive push back on this, but if you request it, it should be done.

I wouldn’t worry about the attendance. DD still isn’t attending full time. Even then, attendance is just part of the picture. On its own, it isn't a lawful reason to refuse to issue.

@handmademitlove

In fact, the OT clincal lead objected to the EP saying she needed specialist advice as they argued the EP was not qualified to decide if she needed assessment or not, and had the EP removed that from the EP report.

😯 Talk about farcical!

At any point in their responses to your complaints, did they ask you what you wanted as a resolution? I expect that that is just a tick box exercise and they will come back with the usual platitudes.

Thank you.... I think I will concentrate on putting together a comprehensive document for the EP. I think I have a good understanding of a lot of what my DD's needs are likely to be.

And my LA is the same as @Icantpeopleanymore so I'm not expecting things to be in any way straightforward. @Icantpeopleanymore, really sorry things are so tough at the moment.

@thatsnotmygarden Thank you, that's so useful.

Could I just ask what you mean about how them not meeting the deadline affects our right of appeal?

I did elude to the legal deadline in my stage 2 complaint, but will go back to the case worker on it.

Tbh it seems pretty unlikely that they will be able to meet it now as the date for a decision is less than two weeks away.

You only get the right of appeal when the LA refuses to issue or finalises. The LA delaying doing either means they are delaying your right of appeal.

Contact the Director of Children’s Services as well as your caseworker. You need to be direct rather than just elude.

Even if they won’t meet the original deadline, you need to push them not to drag it out further.

@thatsnotmygarden Thank you, I see what you mean.

Do you think it's sufficient to copy in the DCS to my response to the case-worker?

@Namechangeagain80 I clearly stated that I wanted an OT assessment to be carried out and for the LA to adhere to the statutory timescales. They dismissed my complaint...

@Namechangeagain80 by all means copy the DCS in to your email to the caseworker, but I would also email them directly. You may not get a reply, but sometimes a direct email moves things along. Although sometimes it is ignored - but if that happens, it still helps to build evidence.

Hi all, hope you're all enjoying the warmer days if you have them.

Thank god it's the weekend, just the respite of not having to report DD as absent each morning is something.

Feeling very fed up, but potentially some not terrible news...not good, but not terrible..

The panel considered the request for a personal budget and of course said no, the EHCP is still final with no placement, but the caseworker has been instructed to name her current school. Which is ridiculous of course. She hasn't set foot there or Interacted with them for 6 Months. They haven't even consulted any schools, and haven't managed to talk to the senco at all this week.

However, they have agreed to fund a bespoke online package plus pastoral input, through the school and extra funding.

Bad news is they say it's with a view to getting her to go back in September. Which is unlikely.

But, if it gets her something in the meantime whilst I appeal (or wait for appeal) then it's something at least.

No idea what it will look like, or how much funding is available, but I guess if it's school trying to put it together I might have a chance of some input.

The worry is that they might start putting pressure on for her to go back in September...but hopefully they know by now there's no point doing that. I'm just glad it's something, I sent an email Monday telling them I would be sending them a PAP if they didn't fulfil their responsibility for providing education, so it seems to have done the trick. Or it might have happened anyway. Thank you @thatsnotmygarden for your advice, I used the sections of the children's act you quoted in my email.

This could be yet another nightmare but it's been what she's been asking for all along, even if she can engage a little bit it's something. As for getting her back in, I'll deal with that hurdle later. I'm not sending her back if she doesn't want to go so they can fuck right off with that decision, made by someone who has never met her, but it's a start.

I'll start the appeal anyway, and now start chasing the school to find a provider, I've already sent some options.

Problem is, I've no idea if she will sit any exams she's ready for as a private candidate or at school, so the provider is an issue if they don't do the right exam board or specification..if she's going to get EOTAS eventually then it'll need to be IGCSE, or home invigilation, or sat at school. I think. I'd have to make that decision really soon and I just don't know.

For now I guess I could ask that it's a provider that can start again at year 10 so that pressure is off maybe, I can't imagine her joining year 11 lessons online or otherwise.

I guess they might find one to one tutors but I can't imagine it'll stretch to that. She also might find that too hard.

I have no idea yet what it's going to look like...I hate it when these phone calls come on a Friday at 5pm, it means I stew on it all weekend and can't do anything.

@Icantpeopleanymore I like to get my own back with late Friday emails of my own. Petty, I know.

That sounds like some progress.

Starting in the first year of GCSEs/IGCSEs would be a good idea. Give DD time to settle/see what works and what doesn’t before exams.

Not all subjects would have to be IGCSE. My DSs are doing a mixture of GCSEs and IGCSEs, which is quite common among EHE and EOTAS/EOTIS DC. There are some subjects (e.g. English Language and Sciences) where it is harder but not impossible to sit GCSE as a private candidate. Geography is one example where it is very rare to sit GCSE.

When you appeal, use EOTIS. It is the favoured term by some judges at the moment. Not that there aren’t more pressing matters to focus on than the vowel, but best not to irritate the judge if you get one of those judges.

I wouldn’t worry about the finer practicalities of sitting exams at this point. If DD is on the school roll, DD can sit them via there (either on-site, an alternative off-site venue, or home invigilation). If DD has EOTAS/EOTIS, the LA is responsible. Those with EOTAS/EOTIS sit them via a centre. But this could be at a school, tuition centre, other private exam centre, home invigilation or, depending on the subject/board, remote invigilation. Both mine with EOTAS/EOTIS are sitting them at home.

I like your thinking...I should have fired one off to the school to ask why they haven't responded to the LA all week, or to me..

It is progress, I was very down earlier as I'm just concerned that if school are having to use their funds plus the extra from the LA, that the pressure will be on in September even if she's not ready. They've not done that yet at all though so hopefully it won't come to that. Also concerned that it seems to be limited to a term, but I suppose I can see it as a trial, if it works, or doesn't, or if she still isn't able to go back, then I suppose that's all evidence for tribunal.
I'll hopefully get it all worked out next week or at least before the start of next term. If I don't have to deal with the LA for a bit that's at least something, school have been fairly rubbish but they are at least generally listening to me and on her side, so it's probably a good thing. I'll try not to stew on it too much until I have something arranged.
Thanks for the heads up about EOTIS, and exams, useful to know. I think in reality we will be looking at only maths and English, to begin with at least. She enjoyed English, not so much maths. I might just fund the cake decorating course myself anyway if she wants to try it, it's £60 a month which is doable.

Even if the LA is saying it is only for a term, their duty under section 19 remains after this time if DD can’t attend, so if they try to remove provision you can challenge them.

For consultations themselves, schools don’t always reply. For non-wholly independent schools, not replying to the consultation is taken as no objections. For wholly independent schools, it is taken as not offering a place.

I have been collating all the paperwork for appeal and am shocked by the state of it all! I requested a copy of all the nil returns as they were listed in the EHCP and the tribunal paperwork requires you to attach all the appendices.

This is the point that I realised how poor my both my local LA and NHS are. The process locally is that the EHCNA information request goes to a centralised NHS email and is then disseminated by the NHS team to relevant departments. There are factual inaccuracies in the requests for information which mean that the requests were sent to the wrong departments - eg south instead of north. Or departments missed off altogether eg SALT. The email from NHS co-ordination to the different departments direct that if they are not a current patient or been seen within a year, they must submit a "not known to service" response. This is clearly not in the spirit of the Code of Practice but does explain why the LA simply says there is nothing they can do about it - it is NHS policy that is at fault, although clearly the LA are not challenging it in any way.

This is outrageous - but there is absolutely nothing I can do about the process being so wrong... It is so frustrating and disheartening.

Rant over.... back to completing SEND35. I am trying to work out if I just put the main points - or go through everything I have an issue with? Ultimately they should have done an OT assessment but didn't, which is the heart of the issue. But there are other little things that are not quite right and I wonder if I need to address everything or it will be interpreted as acceptance?

@handmademitlove it is also the LA’s fault. If necessary, they should be commissioning independent assessments rather than shrug their shoulders saying nothing they can do.

If you don’t have all the appendices, don’t worry. Send what you have. This is especially the case if the appendices are not relevant to the content of the appeal. Ones not relevant to the issues in the appeal shouldn’t be in the bundle, anyway.

Not mentioning something now doesn’t mean you can’t raise it at a later date. Just like it doesn’t matter if you don’t have all your evidence now. You don’t have to cover every little bit of wording disputed. Cover the key highlights briefly and concisely. You will get the chance to expand on your case and you will get a working document or work on. As a basic starting point, state section B is not complete and accurate. Not all needs are identified. As a result, Section F is not complete or accurate and does not detail, specify and quantify all the SEP reasonably required. You can go on to summarise key elements in particular - to help you with this, you can use your response to the draft. You can cross reference any evidence, legislation and case law - but don’t worry too much about this, lots don’t do this and it’s fine. Don’t worry and don’t get bogged down in legislation and case law.

Ds ehcp finalised last month following lengthy appeal, la conceded before appeal but placed in SS we wanted during process. They recently held a review given 12 months passed since first ehcp and suggested removal of large chunk specific to ds stated he's in a SS and they do....
Am I right to be annoyed and argue strongly against this?

So in response to my email to the case worker, copying in the DCS, reminding them that the deadline (Wed 21 May) for a decision on whether to issue is statutory and that if necessary they should engage an independent EP:

"I have taken this higher and notified the Tribunals, Assessments, and Placements team manager who has informed the Principle Educational Psychologist. Unfortunately, XX's case has not yet been allocated to an EP, however I have made the relevant team aware, and they can chase this within their service.

If you wish to contact the EP service, their general email is XX..."

Presumably these are just more empty, meaningless words that will make no difference whatsoever!

@923a56712 the LA must not remove provision recently Ordered by SENDIST (including via Consent Order) just because they disagree with it. They must have new evidence the amendments are actually required. It is unlawful. They know it. They are just trying their luck. My LA has mooted doing that for 2 of my DC over the years. Each time I have reminded them they must not and if they proceed, we will be forced down the pre-action route. Once it did require a pre-action letter.

@Namechangeagain80 sometimes it chivvies them along. Sometimes it doesn’t but it is about building evidence in case you need to take it further.

@thatsnotmygarden - Am all about building evidence!

Just out of interest, and I realise the answer is probably how long is a piece of string, but are delays with EP assessments meaning the deadline is missed more common than not and what's the average/longest wait?

@Namechangeagain80 you can see the statistics here. You can refine the search by LA, year (latest data is to 2023), etc. Some LAs are more likely to finalise within 20 weeks than others. A lot of the delays are due to EP advice and information, but not all.

@thatsnotmygarden That's really useful, thank you.

I'm just putting together documents to send to the case worker. I've written a 10-page document for the yet to be assigned EP detailing what I believe DD's needs are, plus excerpts from various reports and lists of what strategies I think has/haven't worked. I appreciate that the LA will likely pay no attention to it, but is it worth including?

I am about to submit SEND35. I remember reading about a change in practice direction relating to the number of pages for submitted evidence. I note that this applies from 15 July 2025, so does this mean that I don't have to worry about this at this point, or that I need to stick to this as the tribunal date will be after this date? Attachments total 149 pages and I thought I hadn't added much - eg EP report is 23 pages and I have had to include both draft and final as they removed some key stuff between the two at the request of OT!

@thatsnotmygarden those statistics are scary - I know my LA is useless, but with a national average of 50%, my LA is at 3.6% 😮

I find the statistics really interesting. You can see statistics for other things if you play about with the filters. Really interesting.

@Namechangeagain80 I suspect the EP will not read all 10 pages. Personally, I would try to cut it down - bullet points are fine.

@handmademitlove you can read the new Practice Directions here. They apply to any case whose hearing date is listed for after the 15th July 2025, so they will apply to you. Not all your attachments submitted with the SEND35 will fall into your page limit (e.g. the EHCP is in a different part of the bundle and has its own page limit). There will apparently be some leeway for reports already written/they don’t expect existing reports to be rewritten - who knows how this will play out in practice. Further guidance will probably be released. If there is a reason you need to go over the page limits, you/the LA can make the request.