EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

Thank you @Ponche. I think it’s pretty rude that they give you an opportunity to make comments just for them to ignore the comments anyway!

@BrightYellowTrain I’ve read your post 4 times and I’m still confused. Please dumb it down for me🫣

For example, the LA have issued the first draft for DS’ plan. It’s a mess and missing a crucial bit of context because Neurology didn’t get to contribute towards the EHCNA. The nursery that I’ve requested have gone back to the LA and have said that they’re unable to make a decision (so basically a no) until the relevant information is added.

I’ve emailed DS’ Epilepsy Nurse who will be sending me a seizure plan by the end of the week. This is what she would have submitted for the EHCNA as well as DS’ latest clinical report. Now, my question is, what happens if the LA write a second draft before I receive the seizure plan? Will they take the information given and possibly write a third or just say, ‘tough, this is what you’re getting.’

Second question, can they refuse to include the seizure plan into the EHCP? How can I make sure that this evidence is included because, funding aside, it’s really important for the nursery to know what to do in an event of a seizure. Help😅

Will they take the information given and possibly write a third or just say, ‘tough, this is what you’re getting.’

@MinnieTruck it could be either.

You have the draft. You comment on it. The LA then doesn’t have to issue a draft again unless they propose to amend based on something other than your representations (and naming the placement).

Sometimes LAs will stick to this. Sometimes they will issue draft after draft because it delays finalising and thus delays their responsibilities.

After you have made comments on the draft, if LA refuses to make the necessary amendments, don’t let them drag it out for months. Push them to finalise and appeal. Although you can still request the necessary amendments and remain in discussion with the LA.

The LA doesn’t have to amend again. They could refuse. How to deal with a seizure would typically be in an Individual Healthcare Plan (IHP or IHCP) even if some of it is also mentioned in the EHCP.

@BrightYellowTrain the only thing with the IHP is that the nursery won’t take DS as they don’t feel the EHCP fully represents his needs (which it doesn’t). So the concept of the IHP makes sense but how can I get that in place if I can’t get the bloody nursery named? Honestly I feel as if I’m gonna go mad

@MinnieTruck the information about DS’s epilepsy in relation to both his educational and health needs should be in the EHCP. However, the nursery shouldn’t be using the vague nature of the EHCP to refuse a place. The provision in F should be enough to be able to support DS appropriately alongside the IHCP because even disregarding his epilepsy DS is going to need 1:1 in F.

Remind me, is the nursery maintained or a non-maintained early years setting?

Remind me, is the nursery maintained or a non-maintained early years setting?

The provision in F should be enough to be able to support DS appropriately alongside the IHCP because even disregarding his epilepsy DS is going to need 1:1 in F.

@BrightYellowTrain exactly. So why is this nursery determined to carry on making my life hell, I don’t understand. Well actually, I do. It’s all about money.

The SENCO has basically said that the level of funding that’s been offered isn’t in line with what they expect. They’re hoping that once DS’ Epilepsy is mentioned in more detail then they can ask the LA for a higher level of funding. I might pushback on the nursery via email about this actually. If anything, I may also ask the LA to name the SS that DD will be going to next year as DS would eventually go there anyway. I’m not sure what to do!

This nursery is a LA funded nursery school which I think is maintained?

@MinnieTruck this isn’t about DS’s epilepsy. This is, as you say, about money. Amending to include DS’s epilepsy alone won’t increase funding if the rest of the EHCP is already correctly written. The LA is responsible for ensuring the provision in F is received and includes ensuring there is appropriate funding. If this is a maintained nursery school, they can be named even if they object. If the SS admits DS’s age group, I think that would be an excellent idea, IMO.

@BrightYellowTrain the reason why the nursery declined DS is ‘….because of the age, ability, aptitude or SEN of this child.’ How do you even get the LA to still name the setting despite that? I also feel that the nursery won’t provide DS with a 1:1 if they don’t get the funding amount they’d like!

I’m seriously considering the SS as they accept from age 2 for kids to join their nursery. The only thing is, I have serious guilt about DS being 2.5 and still not being in nursery. I’m going to get in touch and see if they accept admissions in January (surely they would?) or would we need to wait until September 2025 for him to join. Sorry I’m waffling at this point. I’m starting to feel very stressed again!

@MinnieTruck you shouldn’t feel guilty. The SS can have a January start. It isn’t wholly independent, so you are not reliant on them offering a place.

If 1:1 is detailed, specified and quantified in F, it must be provided and can be enforced. The nursery would leave themselves and the LA open to legal proceedings if they didn’t. However, if it isn’t detailed, specified and quantified in F, it doesn’t have to be provided and is unlikely to be funded. This is when you would need to appeal.

If you want the mainstream nursery, you need to ask for precise reasons why they object. If you want mainstream, there is a right to a mainstream education except in a minority of circumstances that don’t apply to you (although this is not an absolute right to a specific mainstream placement), and it can then become more complicated. But, if you are thinking of SS, I wouldn’t worry about this now. DS is going to need SS at some point. If you want that to be now, pursue that.

@BrightYellowTrain I’ve got you🫡 thank you as always! I’m going to ask the LA to name the SS and start the consultation process so I’ll see what happens🤞🏾

The LA has agreed to issue EHCP yay! Another step on the journey complete 🙂

Hurray @handmademitlove!

@handmademitlove Hurrah.

@handmademitlove that’s great news!🙌🏾

The LA had made the necessary amendments to DS’ first draft which is something. They issued the second draft yesterday, I added my comments yet they still finalised today.

Question, does this mean that things such as the funding amount and placement can no longer be changed? Or the LA will open the plan to amend these things (without an appeal) if needed? There’s currently no nursery named so I’m not exactly sure how it’s been finalised?

@MinnieTruck you must submit an appeal. Don’t let your right of appeal lapse.

Not all EHCPs name a placement. Is section I completely blank or is there a type of placement?

Email the Director of Children’s Services asking them how they intend to deliver the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F.

The EHCP can be amended (subject to the LA following the correct process), but the LA may not, which is why you must not let your right of appeal lapse.

@BrightYellowTrain wait, I’m so confused! Why do I need to appeal? Is it because they’ve finalised without naming a place or something else?!

I’ve just had a look and initially I thought Section I was left completely blank (I was actually looking at the draft) but it says, ‘Type of Setting: Mainstream.’ ‘Name of setting: To be confirmed.’

When I read the second draft, the only comment that I left wad the name of the placement that I wanted them to consult with which is the SS. I just saw I received an email from the co ordinator saying that they’ll get in touch with the SS from tomorrow. Yet the EHCP says mainstream….

@MinnieTruck Because there isn’t a placement named, and you want a placement.

The setting named in section I is the logical conclusion of B&F, so you should appeal B&F as well as I.

While it is permissible for the LA only name a type of placement, where they name mainstream, they should normally name a particular placement.

@BrightYellowTrain how long do you have to appeal before you miss the window?

@MinnieTruck I’m glad they made the necessary amendments, that must be a relief for you.

My LA did the same thing, they issued the final without naming a setting. Only one had been consulted and they were still waiting for the response. After a lot of pushing, they issued an amended final two weeks later.

By this point, I had already submitted an appeal against sections B, F and I. When I received the amended final, I withdrew the appeal against section I, as the setting had now been named.

@MinnieTruck I think the window to appeal is within two months of receiving the final EHCP and decision letter or within 30 days of the date of the mediation certificate, whichever is later.

I declined mediation and just rang up the company (details will be on the letter) to request a certificate.

@Ponche how has everything been going with your appeal? If I have to go through the appeal process again I’ll honestly die. I’m really not trying to sound dramatic but that’s how I feel!!

I’ve read the whole plan once again for the 5000th time and I do believe that B & F is written well. The provision is clear and unambiguous as it’s really just copied and pasted from all of DS’ reports.

What if I just wait a week or two to see if there’s any progress with naming a nursery and if not, then I can possibly start thinking of an appeal? Surely they’d have to name a place soon?! I don’t understand how it’s just been left blank because they haven’t reached a decision yet. Genuinely do not have the brain capacity for this right now

@MinnieTruck if you appeal, look at legal aid. Personally, I wouldn’t wait to appeal. If the LA amend to your satisfaction, brilliant. If not, you haven’t lost time. I’ve replied to your PM, I’m not ignoring the rest of your post.

@MinnieTruck My appeal is getting really messy and it’s just so stressful so I don’t blame you for not wanting to go through one again!

I waited a week before registering the appeal, in the hope they’d issue an amended final sooner. But it took them two weeks and that was after a lot of phone calls and emails.

At the time, DD was in a day nursery and the LA said they don’t name those type of settings (not sure if this is legal or not). But they would name a maintained setting and a school nursery was the only one being consulted so that was eventually named and DD was going to move there anyway, even if there was no EHCP.

If you do need to appeal, do it as soon as you can as I did it within a week of getting the final and it took a month for the appeal to be registered and the hearing was still 10 months away.

Also, thanks for letting me know about how you got DD’s special school, it’s really interesting how some LAs do things so differently. I may PM you after the phase transfer meeting next week.

I suspect we will have the opposite problem. DD intends to stay at her current school for sixth form, but they will need external support to know how to support her as they are already struggling, hence the EHCP. But not sure they will get much support from the LA. I think what they need is some of their staff upskilling, which will in turn benefit other students. Could be interesting to see how it goes if they ever get round to completing the assessments!

@Ponche I’m sure it won’t come as a surprise to you, but the LA didn’t tell you the truth.

@handmademitlove if it is reasonably required, the external support should be in the EHCP. Staff training can be too.

@MinnieTruck I seem to recall that appeals that are only about section I are treated slightly differently to those with b&f - can't remember where the detail is though!

I would wait a couple of weeks (and give them a deadline!) and then lodge an appeal if they haven't named the school you want.