EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

@BrightYellowTrain Thank you (again!). Re my letter to the DCS, how helpful do they tend to be?

Yes... And I have just gone back to the assessment officer (copying in her team leader) asking her to point out 1) How my requests were unreasonable, 2) How the EP can advise on areas that are not within their expertise 3) How the EHCNA can therefore make a complete judgement on provision when all the needs are not assessed.

What would the EP do then when I go through all my list of concerns and they include things that they don't have the expertise to advise on?

Yes, I remember seeing an option for EHCP reports when I contacted them before - I might get back in touch to gauge costs/timescales...

But the best thing might be to wait for the LA to (presumably) reject the EHCP issue, then appeal and reassess the situation?

@Namechangeagain80 how helpful emailing the DCS is varies. Even within some LAs it varies depending on who emails/what it is about/random other reasons. Sometimes it prompts action even if they don’t reply. It isn’t just about forcing action. It is also about building a paper trail as evidence.

The EP would either ignore needs not within their remit, make limited recommendations that are within their remit, verbally tell you they aren’t within the remit, &/or they may include a sentence saying further assessment is required (with varying levels of vagueness).

Unless money is no object, personally, I wouldn’t seek an independent assessment now. You may decide you need to focus on an assessment by another professional.

@BrightYellowTrain Thank you 🙂

Sorry, one last thing (for now 😬) Does anyone have experience of meetings with an LA SEN Local Inclusion Advisor?

The SENCO arranged one a while ago for next week to "see if there was anything else we could do to help". (Specifically in relation to EBSA).

They vary in their helpfulness from helpful to actively unhelpful. The scope of the role can also differ depending on the LA.

Thank you @BrightYellowTrain

When googling the name of the person the assessment officer had copied in to her response, I came across a PowerPoint presentation from a 'County-wide SENCO forum' - delivered by the LA about a year ago.

The bit about EHCPs is literally propaganda to SENCOs on how to reduce the number of applications, emphasising the number of applications, how they need to instil confidence in parents that needs can be met, how an increase in assessment and plans results in more demand on LAs and schools, how an EHCP does not guarantee better outcomes for a child/young person...

Then really laying into parental requests - about how they reduce the ability of the LA to meet timescales, divert schools away from direct work with CYP and families...

this is awful
And sorry to see that you and your child going through the same obstructive depressing ‘process’. Keep going and keep insisting on the law. Best of luck

Thank you very much that’s very helpful BrightYellowTrain

I watched a Panorama documentary about the Life school in the Wirral which has now been shut down.

Made me wonder how much schools can dupe Local Authorities into giving them £££££ but then provide the absolute worst in terms of care.

Small update that this person’s name and contacts (designated medical officer) is not given anywhere but the LA does say on its website that this job role is included on the panel who will decide about granting the EHCP or not.

So the LA refuses to collect the medical evidence according to the law, but apparently it uses medical expertise to decide on a child’s EHCP eligibility. Handy for them, that.

If you want their contact details, you can contact the ICB and ask.

Haven't posted for a while as work has been mental and I've been waiting for the draft ehcp..

Which, after a phone call today, was emailed to me... except it wasn't. It's not attached and the caseworker has gone home for the day.

I'm so frustrated! I have two child free days this Saturday and Sunday and no other time alone in the next two weekends and I have full bloody teaching days for the last two weeks of term with so much actual work to do, I was planning on getting at least the first bit done of reading through it and checking it against the EP reports etc done tomorrow...argh!

When I spoke to the caseworker I told her I had no way of naming a preferred school as there just aren't any, as no one can meet the need of her not being able to leave the house.

She said I could then instead cost up a full package for a personal budget to put in section J and then send that back within the two weeks.

I guess I can start doing that now, from the ep report..until I get the actual draft.

I'll obviously ask them to restart the 15 days from Monday when I actually get it.

So... personal budget costings and providers...I'm thinking the following;

I think UK virtual school was the preferred option for DD, it's only three weeks on, one week off all year round, with august and December as holiday, and the option of just doing video lessons or online live and video, plus it had small groups, no more than 10, and a few club type live lessons too, and interest based lessons. The founder seemed very knowledgeable about interest led education and DD liked the sound of it. They'll offer maths, English, a language and a few other interest based courses with a full subscription.

Then I need to add other things. The EP report said small group support for GCSE subjects, weekly therapy, and social skills/communication work. A few other things but these were school based. It stated either part time or online learning with whatever she could manage, gradual very slow introduction of different things.

She bakes, does guitar lessons, does arts and crafts, enjoys cooking.

So could I put in there a cake decorating course subscription, twice weekly guitar lessons, a craft subscription box?

Then a weekly animal therapy session?

Physio sessions too, for her HSD? That was recommended in the reports. No idea if it's in the plan yet if course.

Thing is I think it's unlikely she could attend therapy or see any new adults, but the online school could be done very gradually, video lessons to begin with, if I got a subscription box of some kind, or cookery box, she'd enjoy the novelty of that, and it's life skills too. I think she may well be able to engage with that, she likes following instructions.

I guess I ask for the provision and if she's not able to attend or engage with all of it then that gets reviewed annually?

Do I put in there costings for taking two igcses, with the associated costs, like exam fees and textbooks etc?

I'm under no illusion that I'll actually get any of this without appealing of course but I need to put in the ideal don't I?

I really need to get the provision started with costings this weekend as I've just got so little time now to myself. I can't research anything with her around as we are in the 'cling to mum like glue' stage and she just watches everything I do, until she's finally asleep. I don't get any privacy, if I go to my room to make a phone call I have to literally lock the door and talk in a whisper or she listens.

I'm so frustrated that I don't actually have the draft, I can't believe the caseworker, what an idiot!

You are assuming not attaching the draft was a mistake. That might not be the case.

Everything you include in your post can be part of a package - but you will need evidence. This is especially important if the current evidence includes school based provision and suggests school, even part time, is appropriate. Remember, you aren’t just making a package for now. It is completely normal for DC to take time to build up provision and for DC to need careful and slow introduction to new professionals. It doesn’t matter if DD won’t be able to engage with everything straight away. That isn’t a reason for provision not to be in an EHCP. You don’t want to realise in 6/9 months' time that DD needs/can engage in XYZ but only have X in the EHCP.

A personal budget is for provision in F, so you will need provision to be in F. It isn’t really possible to sort J without knowing about F. It is F that is most important. And B&F you would have to appeal to SENDIST about rather than J. Just so you are aware, you don’t have to do this if you don’t want to. You can remind the LA you are not EHEing, so the LA remain responsible for the SEP in F. If you are happy to be involved you can go on to say you are happy to be involved/make suggestions/collaborate with the LA but you are not legally responsible for providing costings, etc.

For a cake decorating course, look at Technology Triumphs. There is a huge number of craft subscription boxes depending on what DD likes, you could look at Scrawlr boxes, Little Crafters, KiwiCo, craftosity, and Emily Dawe.

Therapies should be in there - physio (and any other relevant activities/therapies in conjunction with that e.g. rebound therapy, swimming, riding), SALT, OT including SIOT, and at least one sort of MH therapy. If DD is struggling to engage, therapists need to alter their approach rather than DD not have therapeutic input.

Don’t forget things like memberships/resources/equipment/tech (and training to use it), accessing the community and a budget for that, PfA and a budget for that, mentoring, exercise/sport, professional time (for things like coordinating and overseeing the package, planning/feedback, liaising with others, staff training, input from people like EP, report writing, prep for and attending ARs and MDTs, LSA/TA/HLTA to enable the package to be delivered…), payroll company/insurances…

We have a final evidence deadline in a few weeks and a HD in May. Is a position statement required for the hearing and, if so, when should it be submitted? I don't see it mentioned in the Tribunal Order and haven't found anything on IPSEA. Thank you!

@SpaceInvader321 I would send a position statement for the final evidence deadline. It isn’t something SENDIST’s directions will specifically mention.

Thank you @BrightYellowTrain.

The evidence in the EP report does suggest this but it is written for school. I'll look into paying for an independent EP assessment once I get closer to appeal I think, I can start to save for it.

Would evidence also be useful in that she couldn't attend the appointment for admission to the section 19 provision and they've offered outreach, which I also don't think she will engage with? They've offered 6 weeks, it's not going to work. I guess every time she can't engage with them then that's more evidence that a school settlibg isn't tight for her?

Last silly question, if I detail all the provision and costs, but can't find the cost for a PA to take her to these things or support her at home when I'm at work, can I just put on there cost to be confirmed? They honestly can't expect me to have a fully funded, costed proposal in less than two weeks if I don't know what the provisions are?

@Icantpeopleanymore if money is tight, it is worth contacting Parents in Need. You can use all evidence. EP evidence will be important though. OT can be very helpful in proving school is inappropriate, if you have that. Replace PA with TA/HLTA/LSA/mentor. LAs often view PAs as social care provision. You don’t want to muddy the water. It is easier to amend the language used to avoid the LA arguing against it on a technicality. Yes, you can put TBC and costing are secondary. Focus on provision in F because then it must be provided.

Thanks @BrightYellowTrain I've checked the parents in need website but they'll only send out limited application forms on the 1st of the month, you have to request and then try again the next month if you don't get one. I'll try then. Annoyingly her dad could more than afford it but he's hiding his savings and wages as much as he can as we are going through the divorce now, and he's got no interest in being involved in dealing with the EHCP. I'm on universal credit but either reduced hours at work currently as much as I can, but I do have savings I could use if it goes to tribunal, which I think I can get legal aid on DDs behalf for that?

I've started the costings, I've got so far..

Online school for up to 4 GCSEs
Cake decorating course from technology triumphs, which if she can do level 2 is one GCSE, plus costs of ingredients and equipment
Grade exam package and guitar lessons from the only other trusted adult outside of the family, she's been going for two years.
Equine therapy
A laptop and drawing tablet for the online school
Htla or mentor to support either academic and attending therapy or guitar lessons.
Craft subscription box monthly
Physio appointments fortnightly with hypermobility trained physio
Textbooks for GCSE
Cost of private entry for exams X4

I've gone through the EP report and physio reports to pull out all the provision that relates to these. I've put it all in a table and added links and quotes, plus broken down costs and yearly cost.

I'll add to it once I've actually seen the plan, I can't quite get my head around the section F and J yet..plus I'll have to adapt as I see the provision they've put in, or once I've asked for amended provision I guess.

@Icantpeopleanymore appeals to SENDIST are in the parent’s name, not the child’s name, so you will only be eligible for legal aid if you are eligible. It is different to most JR cases which are brought in the child’s name.

• I would increase from 4 GCSE subjects plus technology triumphs course. Even if DD isn’t in a place to access more right now, she may well be 10 months down the line. And they don’t have to be traditional academic subjects or involve working towards qualifications.
• Assistive tech to go with the laptop, printer, accessories like noise cancelling headphones, insurances, desk, ergonomic chair (or 2 if there will be others involved). Training to use the tech/assistive tech. Internet (this is one some get and some don’t, but it is worth a try since DD will have online provision).
• HLTA/mentor for all provision. Not just some.
• Is fortnightly physio enough for DD’s hypermobility or does she need more or something else as well, e.g. riding or rebound therapy, swimming/hydro/aquatherapy.
• Resources, equipment and sundries other than textbooks and cake decorating equipment/ingredients.
• Assessing for EAA and mocks.

Some other things to think about that you haven't mentioned - OT, SALT, exercise/sport, PfA, mentoring separate to that to facilitate other provision, accessing the community, social interaction, memberships, professional time. The last one is a really big one. It is essential for so many things e.g. coordinating and overseeing the package, travel time, planning/feedback, liaising with others, staff training, input from people like EP/specialist teacher/careers advisor, report writing, prep for and attending MDTs and ARs…

@BrightYellowTrain thank you. I'll consider all those. I think once fortnightly is enough for physio as she finds it exhausting and painful so she can't cope with more, I'll check and see what the report says though. Exercise is difficult, she's barely able to manage anything and it's not mentioned in any report, or provision. If it's not there is it just a given that education should include those things? I could add a swimming membership I think, she might do that, but it's very unlikely as she doesn't like the noise of a pool and changing rooms, plus the smell. Loves swimming on holiday though.

The EP report did mention social use of language training, once a day in a small group for 20 mins...I'm not sure how I could cover that at home.

When you say professional time, is that employing someone or payment for my time to do it?

Is it a case of ask for everything and then argue the specifics, or ask for less and it's more likely to get agreed?
I know I can appeal (I'm still not really clear about the appeal process at all, I get mixed up between JR and sendist appeal) but I'm also wary of her being without anything for months or maybe a year. I need her to start getting something soon. She's in a window of being up for trying things a bit and every month that goes by with nothing being provided, whilst allowing her to recover and rest, also means she's feeling more down because she knows she missing out.

I really need to pay someone to go through the draft and reports but I'm just overwhelmed by the different advocates out there and it's such a short timescale now...

Just looking into EAA, could I add there home invigilation for her exams? I can't imagine she'd go into somewhere new to do them. I've no idea if cost, I've tried searching but not really sure how to find out, it's very dependent on area and exams. It's in a year she'd be taking them, so I assume it needs to be on there.
I might add in a tutor for German GCSE, she started it and she's very adept at languages so that's something she might want later.

@Icantpeopleanymore if DD would go swimming but struggle with public pools, would she go to a private pool? Privately hired if necessary.

It is very rare for parents to be paid. Professional time covers time for a wide range of people and tasks. For example, anyone involved in providing the other provision you mention will need time in addition to the direct provision time (for example, the physio will need time to liaise with others, write reports, prepare for and attend MDTs and AR…), things like EP time, someone to oversee/co-ordinate the package if that isn’t going to be an EP, specialist teacher time, time for e.g. SALT to train other staff, time for those working with DD to be trained in the assistive tech so they can support DD to use it.

Home invigilation is possible. Don’t worry about the costs at this stage. It will vary significantly depending on the centre used and subjects/boards. However, if you need home invigilation for the summer 26 series, once you have sorted the draft, it would be a good idea to begin looking. Not all centres offer home invigilation and those who do have limited capacity for it and book up quickly.

You should request everything that is reasonably required to meet DD’s SEN.

You appeal to SENDIST when you want to challenge the content of the EHCP &/or placement. JR is a remedy of last resort for challenging decisions - was a decision made in a lawful, fair and reasonable way. For example, enforcing of provision in EHCPs because s42 of the CFA 2014 places an absolute duty on the LA to ensure the provision is provided. In the vast, vast majority of cases, JR isn't possible to challenge the content or placement in an EHCP - there are a few rare exceptions.

Appealing won’t make a difference to whether DD is left without provision or not. The (what will be when finalised) existing EHCP is still in force until the EHCP is amended following an appeal.

SOSSEN offer a draft checking service if it is something you would be interested in. You can request more time to make representations. It is a minimum of 15 days, which you can argue have not actually started yet.

@BrightYellowTrain thank you.

I'll think about all that, I've filled in the contact form for SOSSEN. Hopefully I'll hear back soon. I might have to ask for an extension to the time for checking the draft, I think I can do that?

Whilst you say it won't affect the provision, she's not going to get anything until it's finalised isn't she? The longer I take appealing etc, nothing happens in the meantime? I've got meetings with the LA about section 19 provision but they're not budging on the medical needs school being the only provision. Who have only offered outreach of 6 weeks and there's a waiting list. Which she won't engage with anyway even we hen we have a place. I've heard it's only 30 mins once a week anyway.

@Icantpeopleanymore you can request longer than 15 days to make representations.

The EHCP is finalised before you appeal. You can’t appeal until you have appeal rights, which come with the finalised EHCP. The provision in F doesn’t have to be provided until the EHCP is finalised - it is one of the reasons you shouldn’t get into a prolonged back and forth about the draft for months (I have seen cases where this has gone on for over a year!) on end. Appealing when you have the right of appeal does not mean DD will be left with nothing between finalising the EHCP and the EHCP being amended following an appeal. Until the conclusion of an appeal, DD would have exactly the same whether you appeal or not because the existing finalised EHCP remains in force.

Have you emailed the Director of Children’s Services threatening JR for failure to provide s19 provision?

Consent order was signed LA agreed to name school, F including direct weekly therapys for DS. Placement is from September 2025, I haven’t heard from the school, I thought they may have contacted by now, or the LA/ tribunal caseworker. Towards the end LA instructed solicitors so contact was mostly from them. It's so silent, should I be chasing or am I being hasty? When should I receive updated EHCP? Also re direct therapys which were not in F prior to appeal should now be provided?