'Challenging' 3 month olds - come and join me!

[AngelDog]

There seem to be rather a lot of us with 3 month old (ish) babies repeatedly crossing paths on the Sleep threads at the moment. Any of you care to join me to moan / swap suggestions?

I know we have sleep fighters, non-nappers, catnappers, struggling to settle at night and bedtime battles out there, so I'd love to hear how things are going and what's working for you. I shan't name names in case you don't want to join in, but I think at least some of you know who you are!

I'll start: DS is nearly 13 weeks, gets overtired very easily, and needs an incredible amount of sleep day and night, or else he gets chronically overtired. During the day he'll pretty much only go to sleep in the sling, although at night he'll usually feed to sleep. I can rarely put him down in his cot before he's asleep, though, as he will then kick off. Leaving him to it is pointless as he'll lie there happily awake for 3 hours, before eventually conking out (and then only with help from me), and will wake up just 10 mins later. Normally he is only awake for 30-45 minutes before he is yawning and tired. He doesn't sleep in the car, baby swing, bouncy chair or pram (although I'm going to give this another try soon), and will not sleep if he's able to see anything at all.

I'd be especially interested to hear from those of you whose babies fight sleep - how do you manage to get them off?

Welcome to annabeau & fhutts!

fhutts, I can't remember if I've already put this on your bedtime thread, but my DS has to have a nap immediately before bedtime or he finds it really hard to feed & get to sleep. He's always harder to settle at that time of day, so we just go straight for bouncing him in the sling under the kitchen extractor fan, which generally works (eventually). He'll often only sleep for about 10 mins, but it makes all the difference to bedtime as it seems to take the edge off the overtiredness.

Try not to worry about when she goes to nursery. 6 months is a long time off, and you don't know how she might change between now and then. I've heard other people on MN asking about this, and those 'in the know' have said that nursery staff are experienced at getting babies to sleep. Certainly if you're paying for the nursery there is no way they should let her cry if you don't want them to. And as this thread demonstrates, there are plenty of babies like her, so I'm sure the staff will have had experience of others who struggle to get to sleep.

yellowbutterfly, how are you feeling today? It really does get you down at points, doesn't it? Have you tried scratch mitts on DD to prevent the rawness? Can you do anything to get DD to have even a very short nap a bit before bedtime to reduce the overtiredness - sling/cuddle?

PDog - hooray!

Littlestlass - woohoo! I had to smile at you going off & cleaning the bathroom - sounds very familiar. Motherhood is an exciting business, eh?

annabeau - it could well be the 12 week/3 month growth spurt. We've not had it yet (DS is 13.5 weeks) but I know it's common. FWIW, DS spends half his waking time sucking on his fingers, irrespective of whether he's hungry / tired or not.

HTH

And an update from me too:

We have had a sudden and dramatic improvement in DS's night time sleep. He had got to the point of routinely waking up 4 times in the night. He doesn't cry (hasn't since about 3 weeks) but he wakes up, I wake up, pick him up, feed him and then spend up to 2 hours trying to get him back off again. On Saturday I just didn't get up when he first woke up (I was too shattered) and he settled himself back to sleep in 20-30 minutes with no help from me. !!!

Since then I've just been ignoring him when he wakes unless he's pooed, or starts getting cross. As a result he has been sleeping for longer than I ever thought possible and settling himself back off by himself when he does wake in the night.

I've even managed to put him in his cot at bedtime before he was fully asleep for the last 2 nights and he has managed to finish falling asleep on his own. In the past, he would have lain there grizzling or just awake & laughing at the light showing round the edges of the blackout blind until I gave up & picked him up again. I'd like to take the credit for having taught him so well , but it's just something he's suddenly decided he can do, after 3 months of being completely incapable of it. So take heart, ladies - things can change.

I've managed to get DS off once again today without the sling - again, only 45 mins sleep on my lap, but that's a lot better than nothing.

My lovely parents are visiting: my dad does sling duty for all DS's naps, while my mum does our housework and gardening. They are great! After they've gone I'm going to get serious about trying to get DS to nap more reliably without the sling.

With the short nap thing, I've heard from other people that their DC's daytime naps have got longer when they've become more mobile (eg rolling at 4 months, crawling etc) or simply when they get older, for no apparent reason. And I guess short naps are better than no naps at all, annoying as they might be.

I've also been reading that the issue of overtiredness gets less as they get older, and the 'tired window' between awake and overtired gets longer as they get older, so it's easier to put them down for naps even if you don't quite spot the first sleep cues.

Hi

I have DS who is 12 weeks today (DC3). He's pretty good at night - goes down ok on his own at 7 after a bath and wakes twice at about 1am and 5am. He's done this on his own but i did have to persevere early on as this routine gives us time then to do stories for dd1 and dd2 without having to keep running out.

Despite this he also doesn't like naPPING IN HIS COT DURING THE(oops - typing one handed while feeding) day. We've gone with naps in the pram - he naps in it anyway on x2 school runs and you can jiggle it to help him get to sleep if needed.

For what it's worth, here are what i think may be useful tips - hope they help:

1. muslins are great for helping them to self soothe. drap one over the shoulder and alongside the head.

1. grobags are very good at night.

1. my dc have been in their own room early on - i'm sure this does help a bit.

1. try to be too busy to get to them instantly if they wake mid nap. i find that its often the case that when i'm just on the loo, or trying to finish off something,they will drop back off on thier own (not always, but worth a try)

1. prams are great for naps.

1. i think you just have to persevere wuth changes in nap location unfortunately but there may be ways in which you can help - ie get them used to napping at roughly the same time first before changing location.

1. if it's your first baby don't worry about doing things wrong - there is no wrong and you and baby will change when you feel you need to. 3rd time round, i'm not any magically better at any of this and have still had terrible weeks!

fhutts - nurseries will generally either rock the baby in a pram or pat them if in a cot.

thanks Angeldog and DrDoobs for the nursery reassurance, it is playing on my mind for sure.
I am going to try feeding her before getting her prepped for bed tonight, at least that way she has some food in her little tummy before she starts to kick off - or maybe this would give her more energy to go on for longer . Who knows!
Although this has nothing to do with sleep & is probably nothing huge but for us it is a happy day as DD went swimming with Daddy for the first time today and didn't cry the whole time (well apart from when she got out & dressed natrually). Funnily enough she has been asleep in her pram for over 30 mins without rocking!! Swimming every day for me then!

AngelDog I also found that if I ignored DD, she would often go back to sleep on her own. Everything seems so much better when you get a longer stretch of sleep doesn't it?

My plan to work on naps today didn't work out as DD had other ideas! She woke at 7am this morning but went straight back to sleep afterwards for about 2.5 hours. I think she then decided she had had all her daytime sleep in one go as other than about 20 mins in the pram, she didn't sleep at all for the rest of the day .

Needless to say, bedtime was accompanied by much screaming because she was so tired bless her.

I've resigned myself to the fact that DD is unlikely to nap for longer than 45 mins until she is older but I would love to get to the point at which I can put her down in her cot and she will sleep on her own so I will try again tomorrow.

angeldog that is a most encouraging last update- and well done!
i am getting better at letting my dd get herself back off to sleep when she wakes but i sometimes find myself getting up half asleep and shoving a dummy into whatever feels like her mouth in the dark (i'm yet to put it in her ear but it's only a matter of time)
i have to agree with u drdoobs about gro-bags, if u only use them for night sleep it really helps with the night time routine and they can't kick them off and then complain about cold.
fresh air makes a big difference too, we had 2 trips out in the pram today so here's hoping for tonight
good luck all!

Hello Dr Doobs, and welcome. It's nice to hear that the sleep issues aren't just us first-timers being 'incompetent' and inexperienced!

At bedtime I managed to soothe not-quite-asleep-but-lying-there-and-complaining DS by patting his chest: that was a first!

However, this morning he refused to go back to sleep after feeding. He just wanted to lie there and laugh at the light around the window blinds.

He broke out of the swaddle twice last night (we have a Miracle blanket, but he's nearly too long for it). Once he even managed to get one leg out, which I would have thought was impossible. Must try to find a swaddle for bigger babies as I'm rubbish at doing it myself with a blanket. Any suggestions, anyone?

Littlestlass & PDog, when you had success putting your DDs down for naps, were they already drowsy when you put them down?

On the 45 minute / long nap front, it can be worth trying to get them down for a second nap about 30 mins after the first at lunch time - DD2 used to do this. she'd still be tired after 45 mins and would have a second nap - eventually they joined together. today my 6 yr old walked the baby round the garden when he woke - he was already in the pram and i was trying to sweep floor/cook dinner/clear lunch. He went back off within a minute or so (our garden's not that big) and slept for another hour.

So i think they are getting to the age where it is easier to get them to nap consistently (although DD1 didn't until she was walking at a year).

My problem is morning waking (at 5 or 6) when he has only fed one or 2 hours before but I can't let him do any crying or he will wake the others. It's usually straight into bed with me for a feed or back rub.

AngelDog DD doesn't get drowsy as such, she tends to go from full on awake to yawn to scream because I'm overtired. I read something that said colicy babies (which she was) are difficult to read and tend not to show many tired signs. So what we do is this:

First yawn - into grobag, close the curtains telling I'm doing it because it's nap time ("we're closing the curtains because it's time for a nap"), "sleepy time, time to go to sleep" repeated for a few minutes, putting her into the cot telling her I'm doing it because it's nap time, rub tummy for a few seconds, tell her it's sleepy time and leave.

If no yawns (which frequently happens), when she starts to get glazed eyes do as above.

If neither of the above has happened (which is often the case) get to 1 hour 30 mins (morning) or nearer 2 hours (afternoon) and do nap routine.

Basically I try and catch her before the screaming - she still cries when I put her in the grobag, but seems to settle better in the cot later. The best nap she ever had happened when she'd shown no signs of being sleepy at all, I just put her down because it was 1 1/2 hours since she woke up. I used to operate a 3 yawns and you're out method, but I think she was too tired by then!

Anyway, it does seem like a lot of us are having a few breakthroughs at the moment. DD woke me up after an hour last night (and that was me in flood of tears because I was shattered) but then we fed her and she slept 5 hours, woke up for food and slept another 2 1/2. Unfortunately I ended up wide awake at 4 in the morning unable to sleep, while she was spark out!! As I type she's in the cot having a nap (about 20 minutes of grumbling beforehand but not a lot of actual crying) and she's been asleep for about 45 minutes.

Oh, and to who said everything seems better after some sleep - you're so right!

Oh, and DrDoobs I'm desperate for DD to have her own room but we need to finish the wallpapering and plastering first . So not a good idea to buy your first house and move in when you're 8 months pregnant!!

AngelDog DD was awake when I put her down and not particluarly drowsy but had started to rub her eyes. Think this was just a fluke though as the last 2 days re naps have been horrendous.

Yesterday she had 2 naps, each lasting no longer than 30 mins so I am feeling very sorry for myself at the moment. I tried putting her down when she seemed tired but she just gets louder and louder and shows no signs whatsoever of going to sleep. She eventually dropped off in the sling about 1pm (she'd been awake since 8). She woke up crying and was obviously still tired but was also hungry. We then went for a good long walk for over an hour but she only slept for about 30 minutes of it between about 3.30 and 4pm and then was awake until bed at 8pm.

I've just got the No Cry Nap Solution and just reading the introduction about why naps are so important had me in tears - really worried about DD's development and feel like a totally crap mum who can't read my baby

PDog, don't be too hard on yourself. This parenting game is a lot harder than we all expected, I think - certainly I was prepared for hard work, broken nights etc, but not at all for being unable to know what DS needs at any given point. We are all still at the early stages of learning, even more so if this is our first. One of my friends whose daughter (now age 2) was an only-sleep-in-the-sling baby for her first four months (and she was DC2!) says that she still doesn't feel she properly understands her DD's sleep needs/patterns. But she is a very happy and healthy toddler.

I hope today is better for you. A HV told one of my friends whose non-napping DD was about 6 weeks old that 2 short naps was enough for a baby that age to manage on, even if more would be better.

Littlestlass, I've had repeated middle-of-the-night insomnia, especially since DS has been sleeping for longer stretches. It has improved, though. (The No-Cry-Sleep-Solution even has a chapter on how to deal with mothers' insomnia once the DCs are sleeping for longer! )

DS has taken longer to settle at bedtime the last couple of nights. He has also woken up at 7am the last couple of days (our 'nighttime' finishes at 8/8.30am) and been literally impossible to settle again after feeding. I got him up in the end today as I was definitely losing the battle. I think his 'happily awake' time and sleep cues have all changed since he's been sleeping longer at night, and I just can't read him.

Despite having had several reasonable nights, I felt shattered and very low at the thought of not having my parents around to help any more. He cried and I cried too. I'm beginning to wonder how I'm ever going to get him to the point of routinely sleeping in the day without the sling when I just can't cope with the crying involved in any other method of trying to get him to sleep.

He has his second lot of immunisations today, and DH is out late tonight (bad planning there) so I suspect this afternoon & evening may not be much fun.

Hi guys, very brief update as DD will wake up soon and I have a few bits to do.

Only read your threads very quickly, some good stuff though and some of you still struggling a bit .

we are having major success
I am praying it will continue.

DD has been asleep for past 1.5 hours

Basically she still wakes up after 30mins or 45 mins but she now goes back to sleep after a quick replacement of dummy or head stroke.

She also settles herself to sleep at all naps and bedtime .

Been quite tough. Basic rules are

• spot usual tired signs
• quick cuddle

-down when drowsy

• leave in cot unless distressed (i.e moaning and getting worked up or manic kicking as overtired)
• straight back into cot once calm again
• only shushing or whispering at nap times/bedtime
• leave alone as much as possible.

Will sit down later and read your threads and reply properly.

Just to say, when you are tired it makes it really hard. When you are both tired, its even harder. Just hang in and keep with it.

DD and i now having fun together
hope this lasts.

Off for walk in sunshine this afternoon.

Wonderful, yellowbutterfly! Long may it continue!

Hi ladies,

Whilst I don't techincally qualify to join - DD is 8 months - your descriptions of you DCs fitted my DD exactly at that age.

Fighting daytime sleep and wailing because she was tired. She got to 9 weeks and then stopped dropping off after feeds or on the boob.

She wouldn't nap in the stroller and wailed in the car seat.

I spent several weeks with a waily overtired baby and slowly going mad.

I may get lynched for this but this really really really worked for me and DD and she is a little dream now with naps and sleep.

I implimented scheduled daytime nap. I know I'm writing to the very tired (hence slightly crazy) ladies and its not what you want to hear. But it works. It took 2 weeks (yes it was close to hell) of settling her for the naps and her trying to wail to get picked up etc etc. Me running up and down the stairs and saying: "naptime, settle yourself" until I was blue in the face.

I found out that babies that age need roughly 3.5 to 4 hours sleep a day but it can vary even more (not helpful I know). Babies have a sleep cycle of 45mins (hence you do finally get them to sleep and they wake again).

Decide on what type of napping schedule suits you. Perhaps 1.5hrs in the morning (9:30ish) and another 1.5hrs during midafternoon? Or a 45min nap in the morning and 2hrs over lunch and 45mins at 4/5pm.

I went with the latter as it suited DD best. She's droppped the late afternoon nap and only naps 45mins in the morning and 2hrs over lunch. She'll now also nap in carseats and strollers but prefers her bed.

DD really responded well to "knowing" exactly what time naptime is and now she'll start complaining a bit if it gone past midday and we've still not put her in her cot.

The first two weeks are sooooooo hard. But once they realise that this is part of everyday, you'll have no issue. Incidentally DD also slept thru night after she started getting proper naps. It may be a coincidence but...

I know its not what you wanted to hear - sorry but you'll be doing yourselves a massive massive favour by doing it now.

I have friends/NCT girls whose babies a 8months + who didn't go for scheduled naps and they're still having the same problems (wailing refusing and fighting sleep - bad sleep at night etc).

If you put the work in now, you'll be benefitting for a long time to come.

Best of luck with it.

pdog don't worry about naps & development. DD1 was a terrible napper as i was lousy at signals (but she was very well fed ). At 3 months she didn't nap AT ALL for a week, she would only nap for 30mins at 6 months and didn't have decent long naps until about 15 months. but she slept through night from 8 weeks (despite me feeding to sleep until 12 weeks when it stopped working) and is now a happy and healthy 6 yr old.

Thanks for the reassurance AngelDog and DrDroobs. Motherhood is much harder than I expected - I thought knowing my baby would come naturally but am quickly finding it is another thing that takes a lot of time and effort to learn. We will get there though.

AngelDog - my DD's pattern changed quite a lot when she started sleeping through, sometimes she would sleep til 7am, sometimes 9am, once even 10am! She now seems to have settled back into her usual 8/8.30am wake up time and will usually go back off if she wakes before then.

I know how hard it is without support - my family live 160 miles away and DH travels a fair bit. I am going to make a plan to tackle naps and stick to it. I know it will be tough but will be worth it in the end. Will be stocking up on wine and chocolate to see me through .

yellowbutterfly well done! Will look forward to reading your tips if you get chance to post in more detail.

skandi1 yes, I think that is what I am going to try. Will no doubt be hard but I will just have to be tough - can't feel any worse that I do already. DH away for 2 weeks from Sunday and it might actually be easier - he is softer than I am

Thanks, skandi1 and DrDoobs for sharing your experiences. It's good to hear what worked / didn't work for different people as it gives us more alternatives to try. How did you settle your DD for naps? I'm thinking about whether I could use a similar approach for DS - the only way I can be sure of getting him to sleep eventually is by putting him in a sling, but that's not much good for getting him in his cot.

DrDoobs, I was relieved that you and DD still survived with a whole week without naps!

Poor DS is not happy: he's been more tired than usual since his injections and when I tried to do bedtime earlier than usual, he just yelled and yelled and yelled. In the end I had to go for the sling as he was in such a state that he wouldn't feed (quite common for him) and wouldn't even suck on a finger (not at all usual). I'm hoping I can do bedtime without the sling at some point tonight!

Hi Angeldog,

I use dummies, comforters and Rapid Return.

I gave DD a dummy for sleep time from 1 month old. Initially she wasn't too interested by did suck a bit before sleeping.

I also got her 2 comforters (we have Kraig the Comforter, a small white thing from John Lewis and Karoline the comforter, a fleecy thing from Mamas & Papas...).

Initially she'd just suck the dummy to settle herself. As she's gotten older she is loving her comforters. Every time I put her down for nap or for bed time she rolls around cuddling them and talks to them - very funny and there are always big smiles for them :-))

Before taking her upstairs for naps, I'd always say: "naptime" so she could learn to anticipate the change coming.

for a while I'd have to stay in the in the room for 10 and hold her hand or just stand by her cot so she could see me. Then I would say: "naptime, settle yourself, naptime" and then leave the room and go downstairs. And then if she started to cry I'd go upstairs and shhs her without picking her up.

And for a couple of weeks I was up and down the stairs constantly and it would have been easy to give up. She was also testing me a lot and would do a sort of a fake pretend cry to get me to come and she'd stop to listen for my footsteps - cheeky girl.

But after a couple of weeks she understood that at naptime she stays in her room but muumy will come whenever you need her.

I thought it was important for her to feel secure that I'd be there even though she initally tested it but it helps with sleeping at night too because she knows she can just call and I'll come. I think as she feels secure she doesn't call for me.

Also felt that comforters were helpful as were dummies (DD loved the boob and now dummies). I know some mothers feel dummies are inappropriate and if you do you can always use comforters.

As I said its worth having scheduled naptime. Your DCs know when its sleepy time and will settle easily. ANd you avoid having a tired waily baby which makes you feel like a better mother (and a lot more sane!).

I am very keen that DD should NEVER EVER be left to cry at all and I could never do controlled crying (I end up doing the crying listening to my precious girl breaking her heart) and my implementing scheduled naptime and bed time as a routine, I've avoiding any form of crying. Rapid Return may sound like a pain but the upside is no wailing (or broken hearts) and you get fit running up and down the stairs .

I know there are lots of theories and lots of people tell you so many things it makes your head spin. So I hope something works for you all.

Spoke to a friend of mine who is currently using a nap routine (for a 6 month old) of 3 naps of 45mins (around 9, 1 and 4). And apparently that works really well too.

skandhi1 can I ask a few questions?

(forgive any rambles i'm really tired by this time of night)

What about practical stuff like going out to the shop and nap time? do you fit around it?

your approach and mine with DD sound very similar, and it is working (i think, although slowly).
My DD does this fake pretend cry and then gives herself away by smiling (she is v clever).

DH and I have been thinking of a nap schedule during the day so we all know where we are. the morning is generally ok so was thinking a nap soon after lunch???
would be interested to know your nap schedule and again what did you do when you needed to go out?

hope its ok to ask

BTW way Pdog I like your style, chocolate and wine .

My DH works 14 hour days and my family are 4 hours drive away, so i'm totally with you. Hard to make a decision, let alone stick to it when you are on your own and tired. XXXXX

skandi1 I would also be interested in the questions posed by yellowbutterfly if you don't mind sharing.

AngelDog Have you tried a baby hammock? Have heard that they have been successful for babies that like the cosiness of a sling for sleep. They are quite expensive though so maybe you could borrow one if someone you know has one? Or maybe somewhere hires them? Then you could see if it works before deciding whether it is worth investing.

Another thing you could try - when DS was in PICU (resp infection),the nurses made a kind of nest for him to sleep in. They roll a towel and put it in a pillow case in a u shape - the baby then sleeps in the middle and it's a bit cosier around the edges. Not sure if they would be too big for it now though, but you could lways try a rolled up towel or top next to him. I used to roll my tshirt into a head hugger for them when the were very little.

Can't remember what I did for DD1's naps. I know we went through a stage when I would go and sit hext to her cot until she fell asleep, usually reading a book but think that was around 9 months - vaguely remember her moving around lots but not walking yet. I think after 6 months we did also just have to leave her to yell - we were more confident then when she was tired and that a nap was needed.

With DD2 I was much better at knowing when tired and used to yet her yell from an early age as she was very good at going to sleep. She'd cry for about 5 mins but then be asleep. I used to stroke her forehead but anything else really looked as if it was stopping her from sleeping and not helping.
Again she would nap for 30mins and then grew out of it on her own.

I think the lengthening nap time is something they will do on their own and you shouldn't stress about it too much. DS is out in the pram and has now been asleep for an hour despite having gone to sleep a bit over tired.

If you are wanting to wean off slings you might like to consider a pram as an intermediate step - the upside being that you can rock them until they are almost asleep but still leave them to do the last bit on their own. (sorry, I know I keep pushing prams (no pun intended ).

Hiya,

I nap DD at 09:30 for 30 mins and 12:00 till 14:00.

When she was smaller, it was 09:30 for 45mins, 12:00 till 14:00 and 16:00 for 45mins.

She gets up at 7am and goes to bed at 7pm.

It actually leaves lots of time for going out and about.

As she got better with her naps, she was able to nap in her stroller for the late afternoon nap. That means you can be out all afternoon if you like.

I also have hour and a half in the morning between our breakfasts and her first nap and another hour and a half between first nap and lunch and 2nd nap.

Once your little gets into the nap schedule, you'll probably find that they'll nap in a car or stroller if you need them to occassionally.

It may seem that the short morning nap is close to the lunch nap but it works surprisingly well.

Reason for doing it this way are numerous. Apparently its more beneficial for children/babies to have a long nap about half way between getting up and going to bed. Helps brain development if they get this extra long rest.

Once they get older (1 year plus) they'll start to have just one nap in the day and it will invariably be at lunchtime. So you may as well start to nap them at noon now and that way they'll drop the morning and afternoon naps when they no longer need them. DD dropped late afternoon nap at 7 months - she just stopped sleeping when I put her down for it and would roll around until I picked her up again.

And finally, mummy gets a 2hr break half way thru the day. Soooo useful for a few chores, lunch and even a nap if required. And you get a smily baby up at 2pm which is nice.

You can always adjust times to suit your own schedule or how you prefer your day to run.

I found DD at 12 weeks would get really crancky and waily if she was awake for more than 2 hours at a time. Now she's older she can go much longer.

I just found there was such a difference in DD (and our lives/time together) when we did the scheduled naps. And she loves her naps now.

Now only has it been beneficial to her but I felt some much more in control and a better mum as she wasn't wailing all the time.

Hope you find a way which suit you all and the lovely babies.
X

Thanks skandi1 that's helpful. Did your DD not cry then, if you were there? My DD will lie in her cot for awhile talking to her mobile but after a couple of minutes she starts crying. I try patting and shushing, holding her hand etc but my presence seems to make no difference and things just escalate and then I end up picking her up. She will then carrying on crying and take a good 10 minutes to calm down. She seems to resist any attempt to get her to sleep in the house during the day. Not having much luck with the sling either now.

On the upside, we had success with the pram yesterday DrDroobs. DH took DD out for a walk in the lovely sunshine and she slept for the full 45 mins and then for another hour when they got back. I had to do a few circuits of the garden a couple of times but she did go back to sleep. She hasn't napped for this long, or in a stationary pram since she was about 8wo so DH and I were dancing round the garden in joy .

It also seems that we have night times sussed as well - DD has gone in her crib awake and settled herself without me having to return .

Am going to try getting into a nap routine over the next week or 2 but am starting a few classes so not sure how this will work out. How do the rest of you manage? I haven't been to the usual group I go to for awhile for one reason or another but the last time I was there DD screamed the place down because she was overtired and the HV ended up settling her . She is VERY noisy when she gets going to the point that you can't hear anything else and I felt like all the other mums were wishing I would just go away.