'Challenging' 3 month olds - come and join me!

[AngelDog]

There seem to be rather a lot of us with 3 month old (ish) babies repeatedly crossing paths on the Sleep threads at the moment. Any of you care to join me to moan / swap suggestions?

I know we have sleep fighters, non-nappers, catnappers, struggling to settle at night and bedtime battles out there, so I'd love to hear how things are going and what's working for you. I shan't name names in case you don't want to join in, but I think at least some of you know who you are!

I'll start: DS is nearly 13 weeks, gets overtired very easily, and needs an incredible amount of sleep day and night, or else he gets chronically overtired. During the day he'll pretty much only go to sleep in the sling, although at night he'll usually feed to sleep. I can rarely put him down in his cot before he's asleep, though, as he will then kick off. Leaving him to it is pointless as he'll lie there happily awake for 3 hours, before eventually conking out (and then only with help from me), and will wake up just 10 mins later. Normally he is only awake for 30-45 minutes before he is yawning and tired. He doesn't sleep in the car, baby swing, bouncy chair or pram (although I'm going to give this another try soon), and will not sleep if he's able to see anything at all.

I'd be especially interested to hear from those of you whose babies fight sleep - how do you manage to get them off?

Pdog, you have my sympathies. Just in case it's true that misery loves company, the last 4 nights we've been up at 11pm, 1am, 3am and 5am. Feeding every time - tried just soothing back to sleep but no dice... YAWN!
Just wish he'd drop the 1am - didn't even do that as newborn!

Off on hols for long weekend, but then going to rope DH in for a 'tough on night waking, tough on the causes of night waking' week. Planning to target the 1am wake up - get DH to go in with no food and allow 30mins for him to try and settle before I feed (can't face any longer!). Anyone have any success with that kind of tactic?

Well I am pleased to say that (almost) normal service seems to have resumed over the last few nights. We are at 2 awakenings now, rather than 4.

And today DD has managed a 2 hour nap from 11 til 1pm!!! . We were out and about though so it was in the car/pram but still longer than she has done in a LONG time.

IC glad your trip went well and you were able to enjoy the wedding. Hope you recover from your cold soon.

FofF haven't tried anything like this. Luckily, DD's frequent awakenings have only lasted for a 5/6 nights at a time so, although they seem bad at the time, are not too unmanageable really. Hope things get better for you soon.

AngelDog glad to hear things are becoming more predictable for you. I certainly feel like we have more of a routine now, even if it is different every day . Although we are planning to start weaning in a few weeks so it could be all change again.

Hoorah, PDog! And thanks - I am feeling quite a bit better already (amazingly, given the lack of sleep)

Good luck with the new tactic, FoF. I've resolved not to try and drop feeds until DD's six months - or, at least feeding better in the day. She's only just got to 11lbs, so she needs as much nourishment as she can get at this stage. Tough, though - 4-5 awakenings per night...

Last night was awful - well, early this morning. It started not too bad - she was sleepy after her imms - but then we had a cascade of disasters from me waking her too much during a feed by having a coughing fit, then realising she had a raging temperature, administering paracetamol, only for her to have a copious vomiting session resulting in me and her having a tepid bath together. Her temperature went down a bit and she slept for a while (I didn't), only for it to shoot back up accompanied by another vomit (not so copious, though). Pretty sure it was from the imms, but sent DH to the pediatrician with her just to make sure. He said he wouldn't worry if her temperature was below 40 directly after the imms, but the vomiting wasn't so good. He suggested more paracetamol and come back tomorrow if things don't settle down. I was a bit wary administering the medicine, but this time she kept it down and her temperature started to descend again, thankfully.

Interestingly, DD remained calm and even cheerful throughout the drama - only getting upset this evening when she got very hungry (soon dealt with, though).

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a better night tonight. Grooo....

Please count me in! I have a DS who takes short naps during the day, fighting them as much as he can, and feeds every two hours all night. He then wants to be out of his cot at 6 (more like 5 but we ignore him till 6). He won't take a bottle so DH can't feed while I get some sleep. He's also found his thumb. I'm exhausted.

Immaculada, where do you live? Just curious as I'm overseas as well. Taking a trip to the UK at the end of June without DH. Glad to hear your trip went so well. All tips for travel are welcome - please!

Argh, just typed a message then lost the lost.

Hi Bena1! We're in Madrid - where are you? More details on how we got on during the flight here - luckily it's only a short one.

A better night on Thursday (lots of awakenings, but all quick resettlings, most without the dummy) then an awful one last night. DD woke up a lot and needed a lot of effort to resettle twice and when she WAS asleep, I was struggling with a tickly throat. Think I got 2 hours sleep in total. Can't really blame any of this on growth/developmental spurts - think it's a combination of the unsettled aftermath of our trip abroad last weekend and the imms plus DD's current little-and-often feeding habit. Am praying fervently she will pass through this phase quickly, but it's already been several weeks so I'm not too hopeful...

Oh dear,we seem to have got worse with the night times lately. DD wakes hourly in the night with a 2/3 stretch at about midnight then an hour wakeful-yawn...She is 17 weeks now and her night time sleep has been getting worse and worse over the last month.I'm really hoping if it's the 4 month sleep regression it might not last much longer!
Her daytime naps have been good lately though-she was exhausted yesterday and wanted several naps and kept falling asleep before finishing her BF.
Feel in a bit of a sleepy fog..

A few better nights here - well, DD the same as usual, but I've been a little better at getting myself back to sleep. Makes all the difference.

floppops.... may it pass and SOON

We are back to waking every 2 hours and not wanting to nap in the cot - arrgh!

Didn't manage to get a shower until 3pm today, when she finally went to sleep in her cot. Just chucked some trackies on this morning to go for a drive as she was so overtired - even then she only slept for 20 mins .

At night she will sleep for about 3 to 4 hours and then is up every 2 hours after that. I have been feeding her as she is 6 months this week so assuming a growth spurt but last night DH settled her and she did go back to sleep without a feed at 4am. We are using her travel cot now as she has outgrown the crib but don't want to move her to her own room until she reliably sleeps through. Makes settling her difficult though as the sides are very deep.

Now we have almost reached the 6 month stage, I am hoping things will start improving

Am I the only one left from the first wave, still having nap time nightmares?!

Hi,

I've only just seen this thread and haven't read it all (!), but just wondered if I could join in?

I have a 16-week-old baby girl who is gorgeous in every way but night sleeping. She is great at daytime sleeps - goes down for an hour at 9 and two hours at 12ish and then maybe 30 mins in the afternoon. She then sleeps from about 7ish (give or take an hour of trying to settle her) to any time from 10-12,though most often 10.

That is her longest stretch. She will then wake a maximum of every two hours til morning. Very often, she will wake every hour. Sometimes, she will wake every hour and then stay awake for two hours.

I am exclsuively breastfeeding and don't leave her to cry at all.

I am open to all suggestions, even if they involve formula and tears.

Hi sappholit i feel your pain on the 2 hour wake thing. Just wanted to say i tried formula as one of the night feeds last night - made no difference. didn't settle any easier and didn't last any longer. a dummy is helping us at the mo but it may be short term gain for long term pain!

Hello all

PDog was going to post to say I'm still here, but not with nap nightmares... but now I'm changing my tune. DS naps fairly okay but his needs have obviously changed and he doesn't want to sleep at 9ish any more - goes off around 10, but only after shrieking for absolutely ages before that, as he's been up for 3+ hours. The rest of the day he can't stay awake happily for much more than 2 hours at a time.

We weaned him off the swaddle but have had to go back to it as he was waking up to 9 times a night in the sleeping bag and taking forever to feed back to sleep. The first night back in the swaddle he only work ONCE between 7.30pm - 7am. Sadly I think it was a one-off relief at being back in the swaddle, not a long-term pattern, and we're back to the 5am starts.

IC, glad you've had some improvement in your sleep at least (although maybe it's changed again, I've not been on the sleep board much lately).

I still haven't got round to writing down anything I've read about teaching babies to sleep .

Sappholit, welcome. There is a 4 month sleep regression which can be particularly horrible (see here, here and here, although it sounds as if your DD has been a bad sleeper for a while. Have you tried co-sleeping so you can at least get a bit more sleep?

Hi Ladies

I've been posting a lot on the Slumber Party thread lately, so neglected this one a bit, sorry!

My DD is EXACTLY the same as Sappholit's, pretty much. Managed to get her back in her baby nest all night last night, but the previous few I've ended up with her beside me using me as a human dummy as she is frequently rejecting actual dummies now.

Still, I'm not feeling too bad, despite the snatch-and-grab sleep pattern, so we're managing. I'm now trying to avoid feeding DD all the way to sleep, but it's tricky as she nods off really quickly during her feeds and it's quite an art to get the timing right.

Interesting to hear the swaddle-weaning saga, AD - I sometimes try DD without it and occasionally she seems to sleep okay and at other times much worse. At the moment I'm leaving her swaddled, but letting her have her hands out once she's got them free - unless the fidgeting is too much for her and me to get back to sleep.

Ah, IC, hands are definitely the issue here. DS doesn't care if his legs aren't wrapped, but as soon as he wakes he rubs/scratches his head which wakes him properly up. He also does it when falling asleep, even when I'm feeding him to sleep (I feed lying down next to him). Normally he feeds for about 15 mins and then is back off again. Without the swaddle it was taking 40-60 mins to feed him back off.

Is what you're trying to do the Pantley Pull Off? She recommends unlatching as soon as they slow down their rate of sucking. I've had some success with it, although my problem is that I tend to doze off and so not get the timing right!

Yes, trying to do the Pantley Pull Off, AD, but think I usually leave it too long. Having said that, DD quite often wakes when put down anyway, so that sort of works. I then give her the dummy to settle her and remove it once she's nodded off.

Did anyone catch the sleep webchat? Go read the discussion, it's very interesting...

Helenwombat, you will be pleased to hear that my DS is ever so much better than he used to be (now 5.5 months, but started to see real improvements at about 3.5 months).

Now he doesn't (generally) need his head to be covered in order to go to sleep in the sling. He will now sleep in the pram and the car. At first he needed a dummy to achieve this (annoying as someone had to hold it in for him) but now he manages without.

I too had to resort to lots of Harvey Karp's 5 S's to get him to sleep. However, one bedtime he suddenly wanted to have a long feed (he's bf), fed for about 45 minutes (in a very different way from his usual feed) and fed to sleep. I was stunned. Over time he did that more and more, although only at bedtime at first, and then only if he'd woken up from a nap in the sling immediately beforehand. Gradually he started feeding to sleep during the night too. He was difficult to put down, so I co-slept for a bit. Now he feeds to sleep happily at bedtime and in the night.

After a while I was able to feed him to sleep for naps too (which was wonderful after hours traipsing the streets with the sling). Now I manage to rock him with a dummy instead of feeding for naps.

IIRC from other threads, your DS isn't 3 months yet? Lots of us here found that things gradually started improving from 3-4 months, although it was often a gradual thing. Hopefully your DS will settle down as he gets a bit older.

IC, thanks for the prompt about the webchat - I'd meant to read it, but had completely forgotten. Fascinating stuff. Makes me wish I could rush out and start doing research myself!

Pleased to hear things have improved for you, AD! I've now decided to relax about DD waking every couple of hours overnight seeing as mostly, she will feed back to sleep easily and quickly. Although my sleep is 4-5 hours max and very fragmented, I actually feel fine, especially if I can get to bed reasonably early myself. And DD is generally happy and currently (don't want to jinx anything) napping well, so stays mainly cheerful through the day.

All in all, I figure if we're both okay I should stop stressing because she doesn't conform to the norms of what we expect in our culture when it comes to infant sleep...

Mind you, after a really shitty night, I doubt I'll be quite so breezy about the issue!!

IC, when I read things like that webchat, I wonder what all the fuss is about...waking up in the night is so normal, I can handle it etc etc... until I get up in the morning and feel rubbish! Actually, DS is pretty good now he's swaddled again - he goes back to sleep pretty quickly and because I'm feeding lying down rather than sitting in a chair, I can get back off quickly too.

helenwombat, I'd forgotten the burping thing. DS was the same - at first, the fact that he'd feed himself into sleepiness was no good as he had to be burped afterwards, which would wake him up (or the wind would wake him up). I know by 12 weeks, he would feed right to sleep at bedtime (without needing burping afterwards) but during the night he always needed to be burped, and would be up for an hour or two each time. By 14 weeks or so he stopped needing winding after feeds so I could generally feed him right to sleep during the night.

The one thing I've learnt is not to worry about getting into 'bad' habits. They're only 'bad' if you think they're bad. And if they allow you to cope for now, go with them. Babies are pretty adapatable, especially when they're a bit bigger IMO.

You are right about it improving quickly. It seemed like FOREVER at the time but now it seems like it was hardly any time at all. Although I still marvel each evening at him being peacefully asleep in his cot, rather than shrieking in the sling as we pound the streets!

I think my DS may be learning to self-settle!!!! [SHOCK] [GRIN]

Sorry for the multiple exclamation marks (not quite 5 so I'm just short of madness ), but I cannot believe it.

I've been rocking him to sleep with a dummy for naps. I rock until his eyes are firmly closed (but he's not in a deep sleep), then take out the dummy and put him down. He fusses around, maybe grizzles, and I pat his chest and sing if necessary, and he eventually drops off.

But today and yesterday I put him down after rocking way before his eyes were closed. He was very awake - both times he was laughing at me from his cot. I left him to it and yesterday, he just went to sleep. Today he chatted, blew bubbles and then complained. I came back, patted his chest, sang the 'sleepy music' and left him to it again (apparently wide awake). He went to sleep. AND I hadn't even used a dummy when rocking him.

Clever baby! Ooh, I do hope this is the start of a habit...

Whoop whoop, AD!! - is your Challenging 3 month-old becoming a Fabulous Sleeping 6 month-old?!!

I suppose I should get out of the habit of feeding DD to sleep all the time (mind you, a couple of times in the last 24 hours it didn't work because she wasn't hungry/interested so cuddling/rocking/ssh-ing did it... I guess there is hope...) - but she's not a great eater generally, so I tend to take advantage of her tiredness/sleepiness as she feeds better than when wide awake and distracted by everything going on around her (even when it's not much - she pops off all the time and grins and coos at me, which is very endearing but not very helpful in terms of filling her belly!)

Long resettle last night, 2 hours plus. Ugh.

Well I have officially reached end of tether with night sleep, even though ds is not as bad as some. Tonight i start stretching time between feeds and weaning off feeding to sleep (following a plan from the millpond book if you have that one AD) . Will let you know how it goes and how soon i crack and just opt for feeding again!

HW... how does he do it? Oof...

Well, DD had a couple of long resettles last night, but in both cases I managed to tummy-pat and dummy-tap her back to sleep without feeding. Took ages, but at least I could do it while lying in bed beside her.

Feel bloody cream crackered now, though...

Good luck NSTW