Co-sleepers - help me with my constantly waking 6 month old please! (LONG POST!)

[ChairmumMiaow]

DS is 6 months old today, and we've been co-sleeping in various ways since he was about 3 months and grew out of his moses basket.

Before he came out of the basket, he was (briefly) sleeping pretty well (IMO) waking 1-2 times a night, and I was feeling good. When we took him out because it was too small, he started waking more often. I presumed this was a combination of the change of sleeping environment and the hot spell we were having at the same time. I thought it would get better!

Since then, its just got worse - he's waking more and more, so I have him in bed with me more and more, and now I'm losing my confidence in what I'm doing. It feels like he won't sleep for long without my nipple in his mouth (although I know its not actually as bad as that). He wakes every 1-2 hours, but seems to only sleep for more than an hour in our bed - he used to do about 3 hours in his cot to start with then wake frequently after that, but now we're lucky if we get an hour at the start of the evening (he normally goes to sleep between 8 and 9pm and just feeds then plays if we do bath earlier)

Some days I feel ok - if he just wakes to get latched on I barely wake up, but after weeks of doing this, I'm getting aches and pains in my back and arms. I normally lay him in the crook of my arm to feed, so when I go to sleep I get a dead arm after a while which wakes me up. Sometimes I can then roll him over onto his back, and he sleeps for a while longer, but other times he wakes up, which wakes me up more, and we have to get comfortable again...

If I try to feed him without being in my arm, I have to roll a bit further onto my side (but not completely over as that seems not to work) which gives me backache as my bac is twisted slightly. I've thought of supporting my back with a long cushion, but thought that it would just wake me up more to get it in place.

If I try to put him back in his bedside cot after every feed, I just wake up shattered. If I try to get him back to sleep by patting etc, he just works himself up into full crying, which I can't stand! Same thing happens when DH tries - as he does when he hears me and DS getting worked up!

I've had people suggesting that I'm waking him up myself, and that he might sleep better in his own room, and as each night I just get that little bit more tired, I'm starting to doubt the route I've chosen and wonder if I make DS sleep as he does! (but I really don't want him in another room just yet)

He doesn't feed as much as he used to in the day, and is not yet eating much solids (he started BLW very slowly about 3 weeks ago) so I know that he needs to catch up at night to a certain extent, but it feels like he's snacking a lot...

So I'm wondering if I can -

a) improve my sleep-feeding technique - any hints?
b) use some other non-crying technique to get him back to sleep
c) try a dummy (I don't particularly like them, but don't hate them...)
d) do something else...

If I can get more comfortable feeding him in bed, I'll be happy, as when I'm not knackered, I don't worry about getting him into bad habits, and DH and I have agreed we're happy to have him in our bed for some time. When I'm tired though, I feel like I'm doing everything wrong!

ooh, great site by the way Chairmum!!!

Well done Chairmum

Sleep seems to be back to normal here. She wakes at 5, feeds, up at 6, nap (2.5 hours for the last two days! - wish I could tack this on to the 5am waking) at 10ish.

Taking it - how goes it?

Yay! Peach! Yay!

p.s. am LaTrucha - Christmas name.

Hello everyone,

Sorry I haven't been around for a while - things have been a bit hectic. And a bit upset on the sleep front too. Last night I spotted an incisor which had just broken the gum so I'm hoping that is the reason I am sitting here with matching propping open my eyes and that things can go back to normal now.....!

Takingit - good luck with your move! I really hope everything goes as smoothly as possible for you. And that your infection gets better soon, that sounds awful.

Well done on (hopefully!) turning the sleep corner Peach! (I've also seen some of your other threads about your flexible working request, did they ever come back to you with a better/revised offer? Sorry, I must sound like a real stalker !)

Chairmum - I do like your new site. I have bookmarked it and intend to get hold of you when my LO is born. I had a bushbaby carrier (like a baby bjorn) for DD and at 8 weeks this was already giving me such back ache. And this with a baby who allegedly had slow weight gain problems! So it will be great to get a sling to try out with advice from an expert.

Anyway, we are off to South Africa tomorrow so will be off for a while (again). Happy sleeping everyone!

Hi hadeda - ha ha, don't worry about the "stalking", I was reading your double-buggy thread so am also stalking you! Is nice to see familiar names on other threads!

Here's hoping the tooth coming through means you'll get some sleep tonight.

We've had a third night of her sleeping through and tonight after feeding her I put her in her cot (not sleeping), turned on the lullaby light thing and left the room. I haven't heard anything....If she is asleep I will be and . Am going to have a beer!

Haven't heard from work yet. On Tuesday it will be 2 weeks since they received my appeal letter and all they have done is acknowledge it. I suspect they are either speaking to the lawyers in case I kick up a fuss, or speaking to recruitment agencies to see how easy it will be to replace me . Will give them till monday and then am phoning to see what's going on.

Chairmum - I will be coming to you if we have another baby, as I had a moby wrap which I loved but which was borrowed from a friend so will be in the market for something similar!

LaTurkey you are always SO good at getting in there with the festove names. Am now off to rack my brains for one for me!!!

Thanks everyone. I'll do you lot a discount or maybe some free babylegs when you get to needing a sling

DS is back to normal service sleeping wise at the moment - 1 wakeup at around 1 or 2, then up for the day at 5 or 6ish, which is ok, although I'm sorted at work now (4-5 mornings a week)and feeling very tired still

Had crappy feedback about some of my management (or lack of it over the last few weeks when I didn't want to work full days and couldn't keep on top of everything) which was not undeserved so I'm feeling very sorry for myself tonight.

Tomorrow I shall hope that DS repeats the nearly 2hr naps he's been doing for his auntie this week. You never know!

Aww Chairmum - you'd think they'd cut you some slack!!!

Am indeed and . DD DID put herself to sleep!

peach - well it was a customer, so they have a right to expect good service I guess. Good thing I'm the boss though

I have gone on a "get myself sorted" drive so I can be organised enough to do everything (baby, some housework, job, new business!) and so far its working.

The good news here is that we've discovered we can go on holiday without having a nightmare.

We stayed in a 2bed cottage. First night DS didn't go down till 8 so I went to bed early (knackered) and we put him in with me. However he woke every half hour or so and wouldn't be settled so I gave up and put him in the travel cot in the other room and shut the door. Less than 10 minutes of crying and he was asleep. 10.30 till 5am
Second night was even better. Down at 6.30, one feed at 2 then up at 5.50! It means we can go away if we want without being jibbering wrecks by the time we get home!

Hurray for holidays Chairmum

PlEASE tell me the secret of your "get myself sorted" drive. I am still living in relative chaos!!

Still don't know if I am going back to work or not, which is a royal pain. Have got my appeal meeting on Thursday so we'll see what happens. Have told them that I need to know ASAP after this as need to let the nursery know if I need the place or not and don't have time for weeks of "negotiations". No doubt they think I am being a stroppy cow, but I think they thought that anyway.

Other than 1 or maybe 2 nights, we have had a week of sleeping from about 7.30 - 7.30. t'is bliss! Have had more trouble getting her down initially and this is particularly tricky for naps, but I WILL NOT complain.

peach - we've had more trouble settling recently - he often doesn't fall asleep BF which has been my failsafe so DH often settles him before bed.

We're down to one wakeup, which is seeming to be always at 2am so I'm wondering if its habit. Roll on Xmas when we can attempt the night weaning without suffering too much!

Re getting stuff done, I'm trying to be very patient to make sure DS has his naps in his cot, so I can run around and do stuff (or mumsnet ) and I'm also taking DS around with me to do housework more.

Also, instead of (just) mumsnetting at night I'm doing my sling shop stuff. Being back at work helps too as a few baby free hours (when I know he's coming back soon) are very relaxing!

I'm a big fan of books - as you can probably tell by all the sleep books I've read (I get carried away sometimes) so I'm also properly reading a book I bough ages ago called "Getting things done" by David Allen which is a simple system for basically being better organised. I'm trying to apply it at home and to work. We'll see how it goes.

I was feeling very energised / motivated before the nasty customer, but I decided (after an evening of moping) that I'm going to get back to my former organised self (although of course its harder now) hence the drive to do stuff.

Anyway, I've answered all my important emails and drunk my tea so its time to do some more housework while DS is still asleep (1hr in his cot so far!)

yes BF was always my failsafe too and now takes forever. When I have been out it takes DP very little timr to settle her, but when I am in and he tries it it doesn't work. She must know I am there!

I usually take DD round to do housework. She sits on the floor of the kitchen while I wash up and make the tea. God knows what we are going to do when she starts crawling!!!

I think I am finding it difficult to get organised as I don't know what is happening about going back to work. I feel a bit in limbo. If I am not going back, then am going to get seriously organised in the New Year. If I am going back then am trying to spend January fretting and worrying and feeling sad, while trying to enjoy my last month off with DD. . oh dear, don't get me started!

Hello again! It is good to catch up with everyone's progress (or lack of ). We're in NZ and almost on local time now. The flight was ok, but DS promptly got an ear infection which has him on antibiotics and exacerbated the broken sleep of a jet-lagged baby this week. However, the last two nights have been quite good - only waking twice each time. He's waking up with the birds at dawn, though, which at this time of year is about 5.30am .

We've decided we'll try CC once he's off the a/bs as it is not really safe to co-sleep where we are staying at the moment, and I am fed up with all this stress about sleep. I am also ready to burn my sling - it's even worse in the summer heat. (I won't really burn it, as it is fantastic in some ways... I'll need it for number two evntually if I'm lucky). I feel sad about taking that decision, but DH is starting his new job shortly and we are staying with relatives who also work hard and don't really want to live with the broken nights either (although they're not mean about it). So late next week it'll begin and I can only cross my fingers that it works reasonably quickly. I'm struggling hard not to feel like a mean failure for considering it.

Hi takingit - Glad you had a safe trip. Sorry about the ear infection

Please don't think yourself a failure, you have been working hard to help your DS to sleep better, this is just the next stage, and hopefully it will work very quickly, and the whole house will have unbroken sleep!

takingit - I think if you're both committed to it, but also aware that it might not work, you'll be fine.

You know what you're happy with, and if you get to the point where you think its not worth it, even for a good night's sleep, don't be afraid to stop! You can always try again another time.

Good luck!

We're having a growth spurt here with DS stuffing his face with milk and solids at every opportunity, so I'm not complaining about him doing 2 feeds last night as I'm assuming its a phase. (Repeat after me).

We're off to MIL for the weekend tomorrow morning. Wish me luck!

Just as DD starts to sleep through the night, something else gets very tricky! We are having a nightmare getting her down to sleep.

I was out on Saturday night and it took DP almost 2 hours. Last night was similar.

I think a lot of it is to do with the fact that she is overtired from not having a proper afternoon nap. This is usually because it has taken me so long to get her down for the morning one that the afternoon one gets pushed further back and then I can't get her down for that one either.

Was thinking of doing PU/PD again but a) have got a sore back so doesn't seem like the right time and b) we are off up to Scotland on Saturday for 2 weeks for xmas so might as well wait till we get back. Maybe it will be miraculously better by then...

peach - struggling here too. I said ages ago that I think he needs a 7pm bedtime, but then he got ill and was back to 6pm. Now he seems to be back to 7 again, but he still wants his dinner at 5!

We're either having a massive growth spurt, or DS has finally got the hang of food. He's eating all 3 meals, and twice - 3 times as much as he ever did for breakfast and dinner, and a bit more lunch! And snacks!

Last night he slept 8-5 though. Unfortunately I woke up at 1 and 3 briefly, then at 4 for the loo (and to check DS was still ok ) and couldn't get back to sleep properly until 5 when he woke. So I'm going to bed now!

T'is always the way chairmum! I got into bed with DD and fell asleep for an hour tonight. Not ideal, but I couldn't bear another fight over sleep.

Good news on your DS'd eating! DD is still picking away and not eating much, unless it's fruit but am being patient. She's still having loads of milk so is doing fine.

Just heard my appeal for the my flexible working application has been turned down, so will not be returning to work at the start of next year.

Am a biot more dissapointed than I thought I'd be, but hey, I guess it is a new exciting chapter in my life and I might end up doing something that i actually enjoy!

oh that's a shame peach

However, I've found that being a mum has opened whole new avenues of interest for me. If I didn't already have a moderately successful business (it pays the bills but not as many as we'd like!) that needed me I'd be looking at new and interesting things, like training to be a proper breastfeeding counsellor, or taking my sling business full time (its just a sideline at the moment and not likely to be more) Perhaps it will for you? (Or perhaps you'll just enjoy continuing to have fun with DD)

Oh, and bedtime is definitely 7pm now here. DS had dinner at around 5.20 (normally 5), a bit of a play to get up some wind (he suffers sometimes) and has just gone in the bath and he's still going strong - and that's with only an hour nap in the sling between around 1 and 2) We'll see how he sleeps now (last night was bed at 7, feed at 1.30am, wake at 5.50 so not too bad - I remember the days when I was longing for that!)

Thanks Chairmum. I think you are right, hopefully it will bring new opportunities, and in the meantime, I will get to continue to enjoy being a full time mum, which I have LOVED so far!

Sounds like your DS is moving into a new routine. Am wondering also about moving to one nap a day, as DD seems to be able to go longer at a time without a nap.

Sorry to hear that Peach. AS Chairmum said, hopefully it will turn out to be an opportunity to do something new and interesting.

Just as you two are looking to one nap a day, I am feeling great since DS has moved to just two a day. It frees up my afternoon significantly! I'm also feeling chirpier about sleep because DS has done several nights in a row now where he has slept from 7pm through to almost 6am with (wait for it) only one wake for feeding ! It is fantastic. So... as always, just when I think we're going to have to do something drastic (like CC) DS goes and has a big improvement all on his own. He's on his last day of a/biotics now, so tomorrow was going to be D-day. Now postponed. I suspect he's going to work out the sleeping through the night thing on his own eventually.

Naps... a totally different story. I've been trying to get him in the cot religiously this week, but have only succeeded once. It is even worse with family around to observe. Why did we move back to within cooee of my MIL??? She clearly thinks I'm doing it all wrong, but then gets the hump when I let her have a go and DS still just screams all the louder. I think I am getting perilously close to slapping the next person to tell me that 'all babies fall asleep in the car - just go for a drive'. Not DS. He's had several bouts of full-on crying in the car at nap-time recently. The shortest of which lasted 25 minutes. Not fun. I've been trying to get him to nap by lying down and feeding him, but no joy. He did fall asleep once, but his eyes flicked open as soon as he touched the cot mattress, despite me waiting til he was deep asleep. Any other ideas people have found useful recently? I'm all out of fresh approaches.

Takingit - then you'd be stuck driving them abou tin the car! I know people who have been caught that way. I'm going to be living with in-laws for 6-8 months next year so I will have my own lessons in biting my tongue to learn!

Peach - sorry about that but I hope it does open new avenues.

Chairmum - Did you have any business training before you starte dyour own> Just curious.

Naps here are all over the place. I think she will go for one soon. Unfortunately she's always knackered by 9am as she is currently up and ready to start the day (after an HOUR feed) at 5am. Any ideas on how to join the 9am sleep onto the night sleep - oh! that's her just woken. Must go.

I guess if it's an hour feed then that's when she is most hungry. What time does she go to bed? Wondering if a dream feed would make a difference?

She's not really feeding hungrily - she just cries if I latch her off. I just want to lay there until I can bear the thought of getting up. She doesn't really eat too much for the first hour or so after she's up, so I don't think she's ravenous.

She goes to bed around 7pm. I'm very loath to wake her . How do you do a dream feed properly?

LaTurkey - with a dream feed we try to wait for a time when he wouldn't naturally be stirring. 10pm seemed to work well if he'd been to bed at 6pm. We've had a few lucky times where he's really not woken up. DH has the hall light on and carries DS from his cot into me in bed (its comfiest there ) with just the lamp on. DS feeds, barely opens his eyes and generally doesn't need resettling. Of course sometimes it fails dreadfully. Anyway, now bedtime is at 7pm we've really stopped doing

We're generally not on one nap - still two, but if he has the chance its one long, one short ideally. However he's easily distractable and routine is hard with working random hours (to fit in with SIL who works nights, and with his baby groups where possible), so some days we get the ideal 1hr30, then 45 mins later - other days we get one nap, or two ridiculously short ones.

Business wise, I mainly read a lot. I used to work for someone doing practically the same thing we do now, so I learned a lot of the business there (by doing it, nobody really taught me, but it wasn't really getting done otherwise) - stuff about invoicing, estimating, dealing with customers and stuff. The general stuff I learnt from reading, and from going to inland revenue workshops. If you want to be self employed, the workshops are free and (IME) extremely useful to make sure you're meeting your legal obligations. I couldn't stand business studies type stuff at school so its funny where you end up While its a bit scary knowing you're legally responsible (though we're a limited company now), its not really that hard, especially if you have an accountant on hand to check things up with (ours does our end of year stuff, and we now have an admin person who is doing a book-keeping course to do the day to day stuff)

Thanks Chairmum - I always thought learning on the job would be the way to do it. I've always fancied setting up a little cafe and I think the best way would be to get a job taking care fo stock etc in a cafe I like.

I am hopeless with numebers though. I think I might have a kind of dyslexia with them. It gets to the point where they just start jumping about.

I've decided to start by trying wakening her from her naps after an hour. Maybe she's sleeping to much during the day. I'll try a dream feed if that doesn't work. My LO is so wide awakey that she'd probably wake and be a nightmare to get down again.