Co-sleepers - help me with my constantly waking 6 month old please! (LONG POST!)

[ChairmumMiaow]

DS is 6 months old today, and we've been co-sleeping in various ways since he was about 3 months and grew out of his moses basket.

Before he came out of the basket, he was (briefly) sleeping pretty well (IMO) waking 1-2 times a night, and I was feeling good. When we took him out because it was too small, he started waking more often. I presumed this was a combination of the change of sleeping environment and the hot spell we were having at the same time. I thought it would get better!

Since then, its just got worse - he's waking more and more, so I have him in bed with me more and more, and now I'm losing my confidence in what I'm doing. It feels like he won't sleep for long without my nipple in his mouth (although I know its not actually as bad as that). He wakes every 1-2 hours, but seems to only sleep for more than an hour in our bed - he used to do about 3 hours in his cot to start with then wake frequently after that, but now we're lucky if we get an hour at the start of the evening (he normally goes to sleep between 8 and 9pm and just feeds then plays if we do bath earlier)

Some days I feel ok - if he just wakes to get latched on I barely wake up, but after weeks of doing this, I'm getting aches and pains in my back and arms. I normally lay him in the crook of my arm to feed, so when I go to sleep I get a dead arm after a while which wakes me up. Sometimes I can then roll him over onto his back, and he sleeps for a while longer, but other times he wakes up, which wakes me up more, and we have to get comfortable again...

If I try to feed him without being in my arm, I have to roll a bit further onto my side (but not completely over as that seems not to work) which gives me backache as my bac is twisted slightly. I've thought of supporting my back with a long cushion, but thought that it would just wake me up more to get it in place.

If I try to put him back in his bedside cot after every feed, I just wake up shattered. If I try to get him back to sleep by patting etc, he just works himself up into full crying, which I can't stand! Same thing happens when DH tries - as he does when he hears me and DS getting worked up!

I've had people suggesting that I'm waking him up myself, and that he might sleep better in his own room, and as each night I just get that little bit more tired, I'm starting to doubt the route I've chosen and wonder if I make DS sleep as he does! (but I really don't want him in another room just yet)

He doesn't feed as much as he used to in the day, and is not yet eating much solids (he started BLW very slowly about 3 weeks ago) so I know that he needs to catch up at night to a certain extent, but it feels like he's snacking a lot...

So I'm wondering if I can -

a) improve my sleep-feeding technique - any hints?
b) use some other non-crying technique to get him back to sleep
c) try a dummy (I don't particularly like them, but don't hate them...)
d) do something else...

If I can get more comfortable feeding him in bed, I'll be happy, as when I'm not knackered, I don't worry about getting him into bad habits, and DH and I have agreed we're happy to have him in our bed for some time. When I'm tired though, I feel like I'm doing everything wrong!

Try a dummy, they're great for babies who just want to suck! You will have to keep getting up and popping it in for him in his cot when he wakes up though.

hiya

Your DS sounds like our DD! She is 4 and a half months old and has been co-sleeping since about 2 weeks old. She now goes in the cot ( though it often takes 2,3,4 etc times to get her down (always asleep) but usually ends up in our bed at some point in the night and often, like last night spends the whole night there. In answer to your questions a) I would definitely try the pillow at your back. I was getting a really sore back (one of the reasons we started with the cot) and I thought, the same as you that it would be more hassle than it's worth but it really works. I tend to lie on my side (propped up with the pillow at my back) and then have my arm above her head which seems to work. Sears and Sears suggest also putting a pillow between your legs but I haven't tried this yet. I find if I try to move away from her she wakes up so I normally just fall asleep and my nipple falls out her mouth once she is asleep but we are still snuggled up and she seems to sleep for longer periods like that. b)I keep saying I am going to rock her back to sleep but in the middle of the night you do what you have to do eh? I am sure as they get older it will be much easier to use patting/shhing etc but I think they need to need to be ready for it c)I would give the dummy a go. DD just spits it out so it doesn't work for us. Does he ever suck his thumb. You could try to help him put it in when he is just going off. That way he might get used to using it instead of you d) You could put him in another room as he is 6 motnhs old but it might be a bit of a shock going from co-sleeping to another room. Might be worth a go though. Lots of people say they wake up much less. Good luck. Let me know how you get on!

O god. You are me. Except DD has just started to refuse her morning nap which she really needs. Watching this with bated breath. Good luck to you. My DD won't take a dummy. What about your DS?

Also, going back a bit now but my lo just wanted to be in bed with us, so I often used to move our pillows up either side of the bed, creating him a little area to sleep in by himself, as my shoulders and back used to get very sore holding him, and he was a really hot sweaty boy (still is)

We went through this [much sympathy].

I used some of the No Cry Sleep Solution - mostly to try and persuade DS to start dropping off without the nipple in his mouth. It did work but It's taken months. However, we did see enough of an improvement to make a big impact on my quality of life pretty quickly, so have faith!

I slowly worked on unlatching DS as he reached the end of a feed so that he could be moved away from me. Like JATGB we put our pillows either side of the bed so there was a big enough gap between them for him to lie, and once he'd finished his feed I'm scoot him up there and settle him on his side or front usually. It sometimes took a few goes when we were starting the NCSS stuff but he slowly got better at managing the last bit before deep sleep by himself. Patting helped. As he got better at sleeping away from me ie not with a boob in his mouth, it got easier and easier to feed him and then plonk him between the pillows, which meant I could get good spells of sleep in a position of my choice. It was tedious and slow progress initially, but absolutely worth it to get better quality sleep, especially if you're not getting much to start with.

Sorry to hijack, but do you mean you made a little bed within your bed for him marked out with pillows?

My 7 mo DD is very similar. We have had her in a cot alongside our bed, I lift her out to feed in our bed during the night then try to get her back in asleep. Used to generally work ok with 1-2 30 min feeds/night. It's been getting worse though, despite our moving out into the spare room incase we were waking her.

A friend whose DS is the same age was having a similar hard time so committed to the Baby Whisperer's "pick-up/put-down" technique last weekend. Her DS went from being fed to sleep & waking every 2 hr to sleeping from 7pm-5am (with a dream feed at 11pm) in 5 days. She said it was hard work for the first couple of nights, but her DP helped out lots. Her DS eats and naps better during the day too.

We are going to start this next weekend, when DD will hopefully be over her cold. We moved her cot into her own room today, I will sleep in there with her until next weekend. Fingers are tightly crossed.

7-5 - oh wow!

is that basically lifting them, settling them, putting down again but NOT feeding? like a million times until it works?

Thanks for all the advice so far. We're going to try the pillow to support me first - as I have no trouble with him feeding all night if I don't properly wake up too often!

If that doesn't help, perhaps the dummy will be next.

Lets hope I have a good nights sleep tonight as I'm 'organising' the birmingham breastfeeding picnic tomorrow!

Yes, my friend was pretty stoked.

My understanding of PUPD is when your baby cries you pick them up, then as soon as they stop you put them back in the cot, whilst saying your chosen sleepy cue phrase (eg - its ok, your going to sleep now/sleepy time etc). If they cry again you pick them up & repeat. If they cry on the way down into the cot you touch the matress with them & then lift back up. You stay with them until they fall asleep.

Apparantly can take hours/hundreds of lifts the first night but most babies start to learn to fall asleep by themselves in the cot. Baby Whisperer recommends starting at the weekend for this reason. Ideally share the task with a partner, they do it for 2 nights then you do it for 2 nights. Not sure how my back & wrists will cope but if it stops the 3am depression it'll be worth it.

oh yes, the 3am depression...know it well!

actually at 2/3am i can be quite chipper, it's the 4-6 period that gets me, when you know all chances of sleep are over.

please do post after next weekend and let us know how it goes?

ChairmumMiaow how was the picnic?

Hi, please could you tell me what the baby whisperer technique is, sounds like a good idea......

Well I've bought the NCSS and we've picked a few of her tactics to try out - I think some will be easier than others, but I really want to see some improvement before I get too exhausted to be able to do anything!

We'll see how it goes. I'm off to write my plan now!

I saw a really big improvement at first with NCSS but then less. We're away now, so everything up the swannee. Best thing I think was LONG naps.

I got dd to go to sleep without feeding using the NCSS which was great, but now I'm finding it a pain as instead of her going down asleep she takes ages to drop off...

I use PUPD when dd wakes in the night if she has fed within the last 2-3 hrs and it does work, I only need to do it once or twice really

it is just the waking I can't figure out, she settles v quickly but why why why does she keep waking up?!!!!!!!!!!

Hi,

I don't normally post any messages but after reading your message I had to offer some advice as I was in the exact same position with my 5 1/2 month old daughter just over a week ago.

I have co-slept and breastfed exclusively since she was born which I loved because of the closeness and convenience. However from about 3 months she began increasing her night feeds (around every 1 1/2 hours) and only falling asleep on the breast even for naps. It was fine for a while but as you know it starts to wear you down especially when you are the only one who can settle her. So I bought a few books looking for some help and advice.

I bought 'no cry sleep solution', 'the baby whisperer' and 'healthy sleep habits, happy child'.

I read them all and decided the baby whisperer was not for me for various reasons. I tried the ncss for a while and got some results but it was quite inconsistent. Finally I read 'Healthy sleep habits, happy child' by Dr Weissbluth (Amazon around £6.50) and started following his plans as they made so much sense to me. Immediately I got positive results which just amazed me as I was so sceptical. I thought she would never sleep without me!

Basically the book explains the way babies are programmed to sleep and the importance of timing and naps and not letting them become overtired. I discovered that my DD was chronically fatigued and as a result found it difficult to put herself to sleep and stay asleep. She also used to thrash about in her sleep ( and keep me awake) which was another sympton or her fatigue.

I cannot guarantee that you will have the same results but if you are anything like I was you will try anything. My DD is now napping 3 times a day (in her cot with no breastfeeding to sleep) her bedtime is around 7.30 and she falls asleep by herself and only wakes for feeding at around 11pm and 4am. She wakes around 6.30. I feel like a different person with all the sleep. Oh and I never let her 'cry it out' as I couldn't stand that. I took one side of the cot off which is right beside my bed so it's still easy to BF when she actually needs it.

I hope this helps a bit as I know how you are feeling. If you have any questions about what I did feel free to ask.

Good luck,
Kristin

Hi Kristin

that is really encouraging thank you!!

it makes a lot of sense - i have seen a teeny tiny improvement even in the 2 nights that I have brought dds bed time earlier by just 30-45mins. She also napped v well the past couple of days. She definitely wakes herself up thrashing around too. Another book purchase coming up i think!

Can I ask when your naptimes are during the day? ta!

Another vote for healthy sleep habits, happy child. Though like PP, I didnt do the cry it out method he uses but just sticking the timings he suggested TRANSFORMED my life lol

My DD is 6.5 months and now sleeps about 13 hours a night and brill naps too.

Here is our basic day.

Wakes up 6.30 / 7am

1st nap around 9 for around 1 1/2 hours

2nd nap around 12 noon for around 2 hours

3rd nap around 4 pm for around 1 hour.

Bedtime around 7

The general rule is that babies (between 5 and 9 months) cannot be awake for more than 2 hours without becoming overtired. So by remembering what time they last woke up at you can start to wind them down after about 1 1/2 hours in a quiet, darkened room. By catching them at the right moment they will usually fall asleep with little fuss - it's when they become overtired that they refuse to sleep. I've discovered timing is everything! During there awake time you should try and keep them really stimulated and get some fresh air. Also try not to let them sleep on car journeys or walks during their 'awake time' as this can disrupt the nap pattern.

Hope this helps,
Kristin x

Kristin that is really interesting because those timings are exactly the ones my (very poor sleeper) ds has found for himself and if I miss them he is a real bugger to get off!

He doesn't sleep for that long though-any tips on how to get him to. Also what does the basic method involve?

Kristin - thanks for that. It sounds much like the bits I've decided to go with from NCSS

After doing one day of sleep /nap logs and discovering that the cherub woke up 6 times and only fed really well 2 of them (a little for 2 more, and once not at all, just sucking) we decided on 4 of her strategies to start with:

1- removing the boob/sleep association (as part of this I am trying to put him down awake)
2- increasing daytime feeds (this has been a real problem recently
3- increasing daytime naps (he always seems really cheery in the day with his 3 20 minute power naps so it didn't occur to me that this was a problem)
4- earlier bedtime (he was going to sleep around 8 but had naturally been getting earlier from a previous 9.30)

Last night we tried for the first time. He had a late nap in the day but woke grumpy, not interested in his dinner so we went straight to the bath at around 6.30. He was overtired and it took me a while to settle him down. He fed a fair bit but was then awake a bit but not fussy. We read some books and had a cuddle and he seemed relaxed so I put him down in his cot with a couple of his favourite toys and he just settled to sleep with me just holding his hand. - This was around 8.20

Instead of 6 wakings, we miraculously had 3, all with reasonable feeds (particularly the first). (However I'm still tired as DH woke me up when he came to bed at 10:30 and I laid awake for a couple of hours before and after the first feed expecting to be woken any minute!

I was pretty impressed, but its just got better today. We have had the longest naps ever. We struggled to get him down early for a nap (so we could get him to baby massage all refreshed) but he was asleep in the sling on the way back from massage and stayed that way for an hour!

He woke up and had some lunch and a bit of a feed and then we played quietly on my bed. I fed him off to sleep (NCSS says use whatever method necessary to get those naps) and he had 1hr45 mins, then dozed for another 15 mins while having a decent feed. We're going to give him a light dinner at 5 then try for bath at 6 to see if we can repeat our success.

I'm not silly enough to think we've cracked it already - everything's too miraculous - but it gives me hope. It means we're going to have to have more routine in the day than I ideally wanted, but I really need that sleep, so its compromise time!

The basic premiss is that at around 3/4 months babies biological sleep patterns start to mature. The bedtime gradually gets earlier, baby sleeps for longer during the night and regular daytime naps develop. The book advocates the importance of routine napping and not allowing the baby to become overtired. It does require you to be quite regimented with the sleep schedule in the first few weeks but once it is established you don't have to be quite so strick as the baby will fall back into it quite easily. The main thing is the 2 hour awake rule then nap.

My DD never napped for very long before I started this programme. However I was letting her nap in the car, pram, swing, my arms or any other place she happened to fall asleep. When I changed to putting her down to nap in her cot in a darkened quiet room her nap times started to extend every day. She sometimes wakes up during a nap but I don't go to her straight away. She often falls back asleep for another hour or so. She might moan for 5 mins but she settles down after. If her moans escalate to a prolonged cry then I will go and soothe her or get her up if she is wide awake. Her sleep cycle is around 45mins so she tends to stir or wake up then but often goes back over - I believe this is because she is still in a sleep inducing enviroment as opposed to being downstairs in the light, noise etc. It is important to try and extend nap times as a nap under 45 mins is apparently non restoritive as baby has not completed a full sleep cycle.

I can't recommend this book enough. I've kind of summed up the basics but it's definitely worth a read.

Good going Chairmum! I hope it lasts.

Can I just ask, is your DS used to putting himself to sleep? I got the impression you fed him to sleep previously?

Thanks for that. And what methods do they suggest using to actually get them to sleep in the first place? I'm still cuddling ds to sleep-the first 2 weeks he went down like a dream then he became a screamer and needed VERY vigourous bouncing/rocking to get him to sleep, have gradually reduced the motion so that I can now sit still holding him but he is still a long way off just being able to pop him in his cot and leave him to it!

Shush pat enraged him, PUPD doesn't work as he doesn't stop crying when picked up just keeps going til he falls asleep in my arms and controlled crying scares me!

Sorry - x post.

The theory you describe would mean going back to the three naps DD used to have. I've just got her on two in line with NCSS. It's all so confusing....

Seconds on getting to sleep methods too.