Please help Newborn baby - I can't go on with no sleep.

[Jennifer48]

I am posting because my mental health is taking a battering due to sleep deprivation since I gave birth to my beautiful baby on 26 January. I have slept just a few scattered hours since then. The nights are excruciating: the baby doesn't sleep at nights, he certainly doesn't settle in the cot and just howls if he isn't at my breast/stomach or on a pillow in front of me, and obviously I can't sleep in that position.
I am, after a shaky start, breastfeeding him, which I am glad about, but if me getting sleep entails moving on to formula, I will do it but I want to make sure it will definitely result in my getting sleep because that's what's breaking me. I manage to express some milk but giving it to him at night does has no impact on the situation at all. His nappies and weight gain are all good and he is back at his birth weight so he is getting sufficient nutrition from the breast, but won't sleep anywhere other than against my chest, stomach or on a pillow in front of me for longer than five minutes- and obviously I can't fall asleep in that position. I hear parents talk about getting three or four hours or sleep with envy; I literally have got none the past two nights and was almost delirious, I nearly fell with him in my arms last night (thankfully I didn't).
I've heard that's not unusual for a baby not to stay in the cot but I've also heard this phase could go on for weeks or months.. but I am at breaking point now- imagining things, feeling extremely low. There is no joy in this.

Thank you @Bellaunion You understand- baby in screaming pain and arched back. Cryi g inconsolably. I don't know exactly what it is but just as the lactation consultant I hired online (different to the lactation consultant from the local Trust who I mentioned above) said that reflux is massively over-diagnosed and while I don't take it as gospel, there are various feeding and sleep consultants who share this view. Interesting article here: www.carolsmyth.co.uk/perinatal-infant/breastfeeding-resources/posts/2015/may/reflux-and-breastfeeding/?fbclid=IwdGRjcAQX1ghjbGNrBBfWA2V4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkDDM1MDY4NTUzMTcyOAABHr7hasBTD2-T1rxAdHrZZZTYtOTYskHwUIITy8rM5wi3Vw3dP4cw3nRCqu_E_aem_k6LP8tEoNdJ0KmMxMjzrlw
Both lactation consultants, the private online one and the local one from the Trust I have met in person, are ICBLC consultants.

I would have agreed until recently with you that perhaps a doctor
Is best placed to help with the issue, but now I'm not so sure. It was a doctor who, last week, prescribed Gaviscon Infant because a health visitor suspected he had reflux, and another doctor frpm the same health practice who told me on Wednesday this week that my baby shouldn't have been prescribed it in the first place because it has no effect on silent reflux.
The second doctor has a reputation locally for being indifferent and cold, and he certainly came across that way on the phone. When I expressed concern about my baby not pooing since Saturday, he said he would add a laxative to my prescription for thrush cream (yes, to top it all off, it seems I have thrush on my breasts). When I picked up the prescription, he'd neglected to add the laxative. No big deal - I don't want to give my little baby a laxative on top of everything else right now, but it confirms what I thought, that the doctor probably give that much of a damn.

Regarding cow's milk allergy: the first doctor, who prescribed Gaviscon Infant, told me that genuine CMPR is extremely rare- yet I hear it spoken of quite often.

Once again, I am so grateful to everyone for constructive thoughts and opinions, you are helping to keep me afloat in this very difficult time

See also: https://rebeccascottpillai.co.uk/newborn-babies/is-this-something-to-worry-about/

Yes @CocoPlum, almost 20 years now.

Amazing! I'm around 13 years in but passed the exam last year.

How are you doing @Jennifer48?

As I type, I spent past three hours breastfeeding him and after he drifted off on my lap, I passed him to my mum so I could go take a shower. I didn't make it to the bathroom- he woke up bawling so I breastfed him again, he was still making feeding cues ao my mum gave him a 70 ml bottle of formula, after which he started to bawl again. My mother says every baby is like this. I feel there's something wrong. But I also simply don't know.

I don’t know about other peoples babies but neither of mine were like this but they weren’t really given the opportunity to be so as I had horses so they were out of the house from 5/6 days old and to a degree had to fit in to what I was doing . Added to which I worked part time nights my entire working life so have always been able to function on very little / disrupted sleep . For your own mental health something needs to change , have you spoken to the health visitor about your actual routine to see whether they could give you some advice .

If it’s constant I would say it’s not normal. My first baby had phases of a few days at a time where she was constantly feeding and upping my supply then she would settle for a few weeks and go at least 1-2 hours between feeds.
Your baby sounds uncomfortable to me, one of mine fed constantly as a baby, I’m sure it was because she had silent reflux and it was a vicious cycle of feeding to soothe the burn and making the reflux worse because she would overfeed. She jumped centile lines because she fed so much.
I would keep on at the health visitor and GP for answers- the squeaky wheel gets the oil after all.

Does he settle if you take him for a walk? As you know he's not starving it might be worthwhile popping him in his pram and going outside. Dd1 was very like yours. I had 3 more dc after her and they did have to fit in with our routine. I'm sure ds would have loved to feed 24/7 but we had to take his sisters to school. Hope he's pooping now.

I would keep digging to find potential causes (allergies, tongue tie, anything else, ...). You feel something is wrong, trust your guts. It's normal for babies to cry for sure, but they should feel satisfied and settled after most feeds. Waking often in the night is also part of it, but crying for hours on end every night isn't really normal (or sustainable for either of you). Keep asking doctors, get allergy tests for him, keep going to the breastfeeding support group, etc.

Did you try a dummy ? Once you have fed him. Winded etc

There's a 50% overlap between dairy and soy allergy. Obviously anything you do would need to be under medical supervision but if you decide to go down the dairy elimination route, consider soy elimination at the same time.

My daughter's non IgE cmpa symptoms were screaming, being unable to lie flat, waking every 20 minutes or so in the night. No bowel or skin changes for her when she was a baby.

My son's non IgE cmpa symptoms were mucous stools and faltering growth. He also had a non IgE soy/IgE egg/IgE banana allergy through breast milk. Cmpa can present very differently depending on the baby.

If you're considering allergy route, there's a very good book called breastfeeding works even with allergies by Robyn Noble.

Hi @Jennifer48 , I have been following your thread and wanted to send you a huge hug. My baby is 8 weeks older than yours and the first few weeks were tough. She didn’t want to be put down and cried a lot. HV suggested dairy allergy.

Things that have helped:

• reduce expectations for everything apart from feeding/ changing/ holding baby
• co-sleeping
• walks in a sling straight after feeding
• feeding in the sling so I could leave the house in the knowledge that we could feed if needed.
• realising that its ok for baby to cry for a couple of mins in a bouncy chair whilst you shower. Assuming they are safe, fed etc.
• baby gaviscon

I know all of this has been mentioned already so nothing new, but it does get better I promise.

I would also say not normal. I think he is very uncomfortable and feeding soothes him, it's not hunger if he's gaining well and has just fed, he's using it for comfort. As PP suggests keep looking for solutions to potential underlying issues be that allergy, tongue tie etc.

You can try to distract him rather than comfort feed but that involves going out in the fresh air at this age really (or a bath but I do not recommend this for an already distressed baby!), different background noises, things to look at, brighter light. If it really has no effect then I think that's an indication he is very uncomfortable.

I appreciate when he's crying putting him in a sling is stressful for everyone and you just want to do the quick comfort thing. Perhaps try to push through that 10/15 mins and see if once you're out the door he settles a bit. He might, he might not. But it's worth trying if you can, even if it's so at least you can say with confidence to GP etc that nothing soothes or distracts him other than being at the breast.

Keep talking to your healthcare team. As someone said above, you know him best and your gut feelings really count too. Squeaky wheel is sadly the right phrase, as is trial and error with these symptoms. I'm sorry you're not there yet, but it will get better. X

OP, would your mum be prepared to take baby out for a walk in the pram? That way you would get a break, baby would get fresh air and it might improve things. I know he cries, but it might be worth trying.

Hi OP, I really hope it gets better soon! I’ve followed your thread. I know lots of people are talking about reflux here. It’s my opinion that if a baby is being fed and having enough food, they will generally go to sleep and when in a deep sleep can be moved. 2 of my babies had GERD , which was silent reflux. They have also had constipation since birth. They both sound like your little one is beginning to sound, had to be held up and on me or my husband facing into us. We’re almost afraid of being set down, although we’re slightly better on the front (we were eventually told to do this by our paediatrician). I think at first your post couldve been anyone in the newborn phase, but it has been a few weeks now since you first posted and it doesn’t sound like anything has changed? So I think it might be logical and sensible now to take a bit more time to consider and learn about silent reflux, and do not neglect to think about the impact constipation can have. the reflux and constipation we’re bouncing off one another in our case. We were given gaviscon but told it probably wouldn’t work as the spit up wasn’t happening. It was more the discomfort/arching/screaming after feeds. It actually turned into food refusal at one point and subsequently weight loss, which was very scary (this is with twins, they both had it). We were given omeprozole which did help after a couple of weeks. To be honest it was only really when that started helping that I felt sure it was reflux. However, alongside that they were only pooing every 4-5 days. This was where the real distress was but it took me about 6 months to fully realise because the pattern of distress was not consistent. They were not straining or actively trying to poo, and they did poo but it wasn’t every day or every other day. However, they were often screaming in pain (we ended up in A&E for this 5 times) and this would generally be when they had been laid down and they had trapped gas (we used to have to burp very firmly to have at least 2 good burps after each feed before lying down/ spend about 45 mins a day cycling legs to get gas out) and that still didn’t fully settle because their gut motility was slow . My son never had this problem, even though he also does get constipated. When we tried lactulose with it the pain was really bad for them and made it worse for s while. I ended up in hospital abroad and was given something that did work and now they’re about 9 months and we are only now able to use the lactulose daily without it causing high levels of distress. But their reflux and constipation was all interlinked. For the reflux the key things that worked were omeprozole and carobel added to their milk to thicken it. They used to feed /suckle a lot to try to manage pain but it causes a cycle of increased pain over time. We were actually advised to feed less often to allow the reflux to settle between feeds. For the constipation it has literally just been a case of using some enemas given to us abroad whenever they get really bad and alongside that being very very strict about doing everything we can to get them pooing at least every 3 days.

obviously I’m not saying this is happening to you, but it could help someone. The sense of going around the houses just respnates with me - it took me about 5 months to understand and get on top of it but it would’ve been weeks if I’d just taken charge and kept going to the dr until things were improving.

I Do hope you get some rest soon OP!

Also, just to add to the above as I just remembered- when we saw our paediatrician he wasn’t concerned for us about CMPA, but he did say that he always looks at how the parents appear when they walk through the door and he said the parents who have babies with CMPA often just crumble/ sit and cry themselves when they start talking about what’s happening because they are up all night and not sleeping at all, their baby cries all the time and nothing helps and none of it makes any sense. So if you do feel like this is what’s happening maybe you could do with seeing paeds to start teasing it apart? I did that privately because I wasn’t willing to wait even another week before being seen.

What you have been describing is not normal. It can be like this for the first week or two, but once feeding is established most babies will feed until milk-drunk and then sleep, even if passed to someone else, for a couple of hours. For you to spend three hours feeding him, wake when he’s moved and root for the breast, and then your mum to give him 70ml of formula, is not normal. If he hasn’t got a tongue tie, and his latch is effective, then he’s got reflux/cmpa or something. He must be almost 6 weeks now, and whilst there’s a growth spurt at 6 weeks, aside from this things should be feeling more settled now. If he doesn’t sleep after a big feed at the breast, and a formula top up, then there’s something going on. Please go back to the health visitor or GP.

Honestly my first CMPA baby was exactly like this. I hope you have already cut out dairy and soy but if not please do so immediately as I promise it’s worth a try.

When I cut out cow’s milk and soya my baby was more settled within 48 hours. Please try!

100%. The difference in my baby was within a week. If it’s not CMPA/soy, it’s done no harm to try it.

My baby was exclusively breastfed and had horrendous reflux. It didn't go away with weaning and he still has it at night (and if he's bending over) at 5 years old. The only way he would sleep for the 1st 9 months was upright on my chest. I was so scared that I would suffocate him if I fell asleep I stayed awake all night every night for 9 months straight. The lack of sleep aged me about 20 years in the 3 years I breastfed for, to the point that people I've known all my life no longer recognise me when I bump into them. Somehow, we both survived though. It will get better!

Edited to add that I did a completely dairy free diet for 12 weeks in case of CMPA through my breast milk. Made absolutely no difference to his reflux and ruined my teeth.

No need for a dairy free diet to ruin teeth. Half the world eats no dairy! Just eat other calcium sources or take supplements. Pregnancy and breastfeeding often affect teeth anyway so it may not have been due to the dairy free diet, especially just for twelve weeks.

it’s true that reflux isn’t always caused by CMPA and neither is a fussy baby but it’s always worth trialling a dairy free diet if the baby is as unhappy as OP’s.

I was dairy free for 18 months, it didn’t impact my teeth at all. There’s lots of non-dairy calcium sources. And being dairy free for 12 weeks isnt going cause calcium deficiency or damage your teeth.

Haven’t read the full thread but it shouldn’t take 3 hours to feed your baby.

It sounds as though they are just sucking for comfort, not necessarily feeding.

I had a sucky baby. It the end I got a dummy otherwise my nipple would be raw. Have you tried a dummy?

My sucky baby is now a teenager and when he’s in a deep sleep he still does the sucky motion with his mouth. It’s quite cute, not sure any future girlfriend will find it as cute though!