What do you do when sleep training hasn’t worked?

[Nosleep2021]

DS is just awful. We are lucky to get 2/3 hours at the start of the night, wakes, then he refuses to go back in his cot. He isn’t hungry or anything - milk is offered and refused.

Since what he wants is to be picked up the sleep methods like Ferber don’t work.

I never thought I’d do CIO but I just can’t carry on like this. I’m depressed because of lack of sleep.

Tbh I’m a bit reluctant to involve a sleep consultant. I have considered it and I’m not completely against it but given I’ve had advice from sleep consultants on here and have read books by them (and like I say at least one of them described DS to a point) I’m not sure this would necessarily translate into DS actually sleeping.

I really really would try a sleep consultant. Having someone guide you, personally, on what to do is a totally different experience to reading about it. In my case, I was too tired to digest the different ideas in a book, but a kind person to hand hold me was exactly what I needed.

There’s one particular sleep consultant on here who can be…dogmatic. I don’t find her approach helpful or considerate at all.

But if you’re paying for one you should be able to have a free call before you commit to see if you click.

Hugs @Nosleep2021 You sound utterly exhausted and desperate. Sleep depravation is an absolute bastard and can really make us say things that we don't mean. IM sure you don't really wish that you hadn't had him ❤️

I'm going against the grain here. Feel free to ignore my advice - you haven't paid for it so it owes you nothing.

Throw the books away. Please. All they do is make you feel shit. And you spend time reading conflicting information when what you could be doing is looking at and reading your own child.

I'm sorry it's so hard right now. These times are bloody tough but they are a moment in time. This won't last but for now it feels like forever.

I'm with those who say you need to get a routine. This doesn't need to be a rigid "nap at X time for Z minutes" and "bath at X time and bed at Y time". But there does need to be some sort of routine to the day. Otherwise how is he supposed to learn that it's time to wind down and go to bed?

I get you when you say you don't like cosleeping but could you come up with a compromise? I wouldn't be sleeping on the floor either but what about a pull out bed next to his? You could roll into that once he's asleep? I used to put one of those long maternity pillows in between me and my DS when he went through this phase. The little monkey was forever fidgeting and kicking. Used to drive me mad. I did find that giving him one of those microwave hotties was comforting too him and he would often settle back to sleep.

You've also had me casting my mind back to 1yr old. Is he having a growth spurt? Will he have milk when he wakes up and then nod back off? Pretty sure one of mine would neck a 200ml bottle of milk in the night and then nod back off. We would pay for it if no milk was forth coming!

Best of luck to you tho @Nosleep2021. You'll get through this. I promise x

@Nosleep2021
What have you got to lose by trying though? Currently the situation is so bad you've thought about foster care so what's the worse that can happen with a sleep consultant?

The same with bed sharing, I get its not what you want but the situation you are in is dire, and surely its better than that?

There is no miracle solution. I wish I could tell you a secret method, but there isn't. Its about consistently sticking to a method.

I agree with others that it sounds like you've tried a lot, so it might be that you need to revisit some older ideas you've already tried as baby is now that bit older and the most important thing is to try and stick with one thing even when it's not working in the short term

Hi OP I actually know how you feel. I was you. It was horiffic.

My action plan, take what you want from it:

Look up histamine reaction.
I'm not saying baby has an allergy. But some people are very sensitive to histamine in foods, or foods that create histamine.

We were giving DD a lovely bowl of mashed banana before bed.
No no no NO
Switched to natural yoghurt and honey. She could actually drift off to sleep. Histamine reaction keeps the brain from switching off.

Kept the no banana after lunch for at least a couple of years.

Our DD is now 7. She still struggles to fall asleep. How many times did I press the button on Shawn the fucking sheep I do not know.

I escaped a couple of times for 1 night. One night of 6 hours is very restorative. I found I could function on 4 hours sleep in 1 block. Any less is horiffic.

Do you have anyone who can help? One night my DH cuddled DD basically all night as she yelled in annoyance as I actually collapsed with tiredness.

You need support. Any relative or friend who can help? If not employ someone if you can.

We didn't think CIO would work as she just couldn't drop off. But I totally understand if you are at this point.

Big hugs
I know how tired you are.
I used to feel like my body was blowing away into sand.

If I can help you in real life I would. Someone to cuddle baby while you sleep, baby is safe even if not asleep.

Hang in there. You are tough. It is all a phase, Even if this is a really awful one

Oh, he definitely knows when it’s wind down time and bed time - and like I say he goes to sleep at around 7 pretty easily. The problem is he wakes 3 hours later and won’t go back down.

I think if we were to go down the sleep consultancy route we’d have to hire someone to come and stay and do it but I think that would be just too expensive.

I think what’s worrying me about this phase it’s it has been going on for nearly 4 months!

I always offer milk in the night but he generally won’t take it. It’s a relief when he does as he does sleep better then!

Sorry if I missed it but you still haven’t said what your DP is doing in all this?

Same as me. Sitting up. Despairing.

Both of you sitting up is pointless. Can you take shifts?

No, he screams.

DS that is. Although …

Also I know you said that a daytime nap routine made no difference but it will, it just can take ages to bed in. On average, what is his sleep like in the day? Split nights are usually due to a chicken and egg cycle of too much daytime sleep - awake half the night - then sleep lots in the day because they’re knackered from the night - and so on.

You have a DP?!
Right it's shift work now.

Is your house big enough for you to sleep in a bed in another room?

You take turns. Team work.
Tag team cuddles, very boring and dull overnight, no lights on, no talking.

It isn’t a split night. He will go to sleep as soon as he is held but he will not go back in his cot.

We did have the hell that was split nights in the summer but this is totally different.

@Nosleep2021

Oh, he definitely knows when it’s wind down time and bed time - and like I say he goes to sleep at around 7 pretty easily. The problem is he wakes 3 hours later and won’t go back down.

I think if we were to go down the sleep consultancy route we’d have to hire someone to come and stay and do it but I think that would be just too expensive.

I think what’s worrying me about this phase it’s it has been going on for nearly 4 months!

I get ya! My DS did something similar to this too. What about taking him downstairs and watching tv for half an hour? Would he snuggle up next to you with a warm blanket? If nothing else would get the little buggers to sleep we would do this on occasion. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and we found that the worst points of sleep and waking in the night were probably when they were developing the most. Almost like so much is going round in there that they wake up and then can't switch off again.

Shift work doesn’t work at all for us I am afraid. I know MN loves the shifts but I’m afraid I don’t.

Were you posting on another thread earlier today about your DS being clingy? Rings a bell.

Either way, if the exhaustion is killing you both then I’d just do shifts anyway even if he does scream. Earplugs and white noise (for yourself) and let DP sort him out for a couple of hours. He will be safe even if he is cross. Then swap.

Baby may well know it's bedtime. But he is having trouble actually falling asleep again.
4 months is shit. But you need to change it up

I have actually taken him out of the bedroom tonight just because I was in a very black place sitting in a dark room with a writhing, angry baby. He’s crawling around playing now. I know this is bad, bad, bad, but tbh he wasn’t sleeping anyway. No idea when (or if) I’ll get him back down, he’s been awake over 2 hours now.

Ah ok so it’s you that is not getting any sleep but your DS actually is because you’re holding him?

you need to change it up what does this mean?

That’s right new although not tonight.

I’m confused, you said he isn’t doing split nights and that he goes back to sleep but now you’ve said he’s been up for 2 hours?

If you’re at the end of your tether and have tried everything else then trying cry it out seems reasonable, surely it’s better than feeling like you want him in foster care.

As an aside, will he sleep on your DH instead of on you? If he picked up some of the night wakings you could at least get some sleep.