How to start Self settling?

[rosieswain]

Help! I've made a right mess of DS sleep. He's 9months old now and still swaddled and fed to sleep. Wakes 1-2 hourly every night 😢 He's miserable, tired and I need to help teach him to sleep but where to start?
I've read Lucy Wolfe's stay and support approach and I like that idea. However, last night at bedtime I took him out of his swaddle and put him in a sleeping bag. But an hour later and lots of crying I had to put him back in swaddle bag as he was like a man possessed just thrashing around and knocking dummy out etc. I did get him to sleep by pinning his arms down but then he woke 10mins later and I thought what's the point in that anyway he might as well be swaddled? I see pics of babies in sleeping bags cuddled up to comforters on their sides/fronts etc looking really cosy, how do I get him to this point? Should I try and settle him on his front then arms won't be thrashing everywhere?? What does anyone suggest?!

Oh god she's up and at it already,I didnt even get to lie dwn😭 what is it with boobs,she's like a little addict,huffing and puffing and pushing her way dwn to them...crazy boob obsessed I don't need sleep baby 😢

Oh dear, how did the rest of the night end up? Mine wasn’t actually as bad - maybe the 3 nap thing suits her? Today has been easier to follow timings and she’s just gone down in minutes for afternoon nap. In buggy, but still. DH always slags me off for seeing a pattern in nothing, but I’m thinking that we have a lot to learn about catching her when she’s sleepy, generally I think we wait too long as it’s not really obvious.

I feel the same with my older ones bedtime - one of my motivators for doing this approach is DH being able to put DD2 down and I can enjoy a proper cuddly bedtime sometimes with DD1. In another year or two we and they will forget how shit we were for a little while when their siblings came! But for now it is sad at times, sometimes a grieving for the relationship and how it has changed with making room for another.

Solidarity, tired mamas!

Yea absolutely it's such a huge change having a new baby in the house and then when there's issues it makes it harder on everyone. It will be so nice to be able to let dh do baby bedtime when we get things sorted. Up to now he's had no real input as all she wants is me and my boobs! That's good ur night went better and today sounds ok too,at least there was sleep involved,who cares where it happened! Our night was awful,I just took her in I think around 1 am as she was up every hr but then she just wants to suck all night so I get very little sleep anyway..she had a good almost 3 hr nap today as we were out and about so hoping it will improve things a bit for the night. I met my friend who's had 2 successes with the lw approach so it was nice to chat to her about it all. I'm so sick of talking to people who have never been there and look at u like ur crazy and just being too soft or stupid. Or worse still..the people whose babies sleep through from 6 wks or something,hate those people!!

How’s everyone getting on? We’ve started the method tonight! Scared and excited. DH doing first couple of nights so we can drop the last night feed. Bedtime didn’t start great as naps weren’t great today and she was too tired, but although there was a few spells of horrible crying, it wasn’t that bad and not for the whole time and she was asleep within 40m. Let’s see what the night brings. My boobs are killing me already as I only fed a tiny bit once last night so was trying to get rid of a surplus all day, I feel a bit like a blocked duct forming which is a shame that I’ll need to pump to deal with it, dontfeel it can wait til 6am! But otherwise feeling hopeful

Hope everyone else doing ok and hanging in there if not...

Ah Merename, so you've begun!

We've found that if DD is overtired it's almost impossible for her to self settle. Shame about the blocked duct feeling. We here had to drop feeds really really gradually. Take care won't you.

Our latest technique, which is working for bedtime and naps (but not getting her back to sleep if in the middle of nap or night) is that I lay on floor next to cot 'distracting' her from crying by singing nursery rhymes on broken record through the cot bars, so my nose is actually poking through to her 'side'. This encourages her to stop standing up to see me from above. She gets curious as to where I am an eventually puts her head down and sleeps!! No crying 😊 If she does cry I try more distraction but then if it gets hysterical I pick her up immediately.

I just want to thank you all here because this thread has changed bedtime for us and helped so much. It's enabled us to get to this next stage, where I'm very happy to be right now.

How did last night go merename? And today?? We're starting this night nxt wk,like u excited but nervous!! Really hoping to see an improvement quickly as I'm really going crazy,seems to just be getting worse and really feeling so down with it all. Its been a hard week with really low moods,so tough sometimes..also clogged ducts every 3-4 days,lots of pain in one boob and a milk blister on nipple.....ouch 🙁

Merename and autumneve have u both night weaned to do the approach?? I'm planning on still doing 2 feeds for now,kinda worried Bout how it will work out...

That’s great autumneve that you are feeling so happy about how things are and no tears, such a relief to feel change is possible.

Thanks for the concern about the boobs - it’s been rumbling on today and achy but improving with each feed and getting sorer again in between, I think it’s a partial block where some milk is flowing slowly rather than completely obstructed. I’m an old hand with blocked ducts now, get them in all the same places and been doing all the tricks so I think it’ll be ok. We went gradually down to one feed at 10pmish so I thought it wouldn’t be too bad dropping this, but it was usually a big full feed of both boobs, and with last milk being brought forward to 6 she isn’t feeding as much at that time so losing 1.5 feeds I guess. I’ve friends who this would be no bother to - some of us just have such sensitive boobs I think!

Anyhoo, results - DH was in to her 5 or 6 times last night, so she was still up frequently, but each time she was quite happy to put herself back to sleep and seems to have gotten the hang of that quite well. She had two decent naps today over an hr and went down within 15/20m. And bedtime was easier tonight, maybe 5/10 min of crying and settled. She’s been up once this evening so far but settled in minutes. We’ve realised today that she is teething you’re not meant to start with stuff going on but can’t go back now! Just dosing her with calpol but we think that’s why she woke so often last night. And the heat. So not instant relief but seeing instant changes. DH describes how quickly she was willing to accept lying down to sleep as ‘miraculous’!

Loveabiscuit- so sorry to hear you’re struggling, and your boob issues. I’ve been so onthe edge and low in the last week too, it’s so hard isn’t it. But you have an end in sight, just hang onto that! You are likely to see some immediate improvement I imagine. She writes in the book about how to maintain feeds doesn’t she? I would totally be doing the same if mine was only 6m, I’m only doing it because it’s naturally headed that way, she wasn’t that interested in the boob anymore at night and it wasn’t working to put her back to sleep anyway. That doesn’t sound like your DD so definitely persevere until you want to stop.

Your boobs sound like mine. I’ve had a milk blister on each breast that have recurred for the last 3months or so, and one has just gone after I asked the dr for steroid cream. I had the same issue with my first and I wasn’t sure whether it was the steroid or the night weaning (and this giving my boobs a rest from DDs crap latch) that helped, and this time it’s been both at the same time so unclear. Do you do the opening it with a pin thing? Sounds grim but definitely helps.

Sorry for the big essay

Loveabiscuit, we haven't really done the night weaning thing as such but every now and then DD manages a long night stint without any help so I think she's gradually weaning herself if that makes sense. Most nights I feed 10ish and 3ish but there are nights where she doesn't need the 10:00 feed.

I'm not really having any success with DD self settling having woken up upset mid-nap/mid-sleep. I have to always hold her (and at night if desperate if feed her). But yet we have had a handful of nights where she's slept 5/6/7/8(!) hours so I assume she is self settling for those 🤷‍♀️

That sounds really good merename,such good progress so soon is fantastic! Hope we do as well with it,if u get results it makes it easier to keep going.
To be honest I haven't done anything with the milk blister,it's been very painful then not so bad then bad again ...just hoping it'll go away on its own. Can I ask tho when u get a clog is it a small lumpy bit in ur boob? I've been ending up with a big hard ridge going almost from my armpit right down to nipple. Its like half of my boob is hard and painful and then I get stabbing pain in the other side. Is this normal do u think? ? Had it again all last night and today,she's cleared it up a bit now with feeding. I'm hoping that once all the crazy night feedings and funny sleeping positions are done with it will improve. Getting so annoyed with it,feel I have enough to be dealing with at the mo!
Yea I know in the book lw does give the approach to deal with night feedings, just wonder will it confuse baby when sometimes she wakes and gets nothing but other times she gets fed...I'll just have to try I suppose.
Pity ur not having as much success as some autumneve but maybe she's just taking a bit longer to get it for some reason,at least ur seeing some improvements which is good

Sometimes clog is a small lumpy bit and other times a huge part of the boob like you say. I think that when it’s a huge part, it’s due to a blockage at the nipple, and when it’s a small tender lump the blockage is further back, iyswim. For me if I have a milk blister that has no milk flowing out, I quickly get a big hard wedge (caked breast, I think it’s called), and I need to take action. Often a shower or soak boob in jug warm water, then run with a rough facecloth or towel will open it enough for milk to flow. But at times I’ve had to use a sterilised pin to open the very surface layer of skin, usually quite instant relief from the pain. How do you feel baby’s latch is? Both mine have had tongue ties and high palates, even tho tts got snipped latch was still too shallow a lot of the time which caused clogs. I’ve found paying meticulous attention to latch helps too, which is why I think there’s been an improvement after night weaning as it’s harder to pay close attention to latch in the dark when knackered.

So yes a long way of saying yes what you have is normal for a clogged duct, but getting them frequently suggests something isn’t right - but the anatomy of baby’s mouth is not easily changed! Latch does seem to have gotten better for us over time but I’m still trying to get rid of one milk blister.

Thanks for the tips I'll try the soaking for the blister tho thankfully it's not too bad again today. Babies latch is a little uncomfortable at times ok but like u say it's hard to be correcting it in the middle of the night when ur half asleep! I think a lot of my problem is actually the way I'm lying down feeding because I always lie on same side due to sore shoulder on the other side and that's the side that keeps clogging,it's probably not draining out properly. Good to hear that what I'm getting is normal tho thnx for that 😊 hope things still going well for u??

Sounds yeah could be feeding position then but hard to adjust with a sore shoulder. Laid back position maybe, propped up a bit on pillows with baby lying on you? Glad blister a bit better today.

So yes all going really well. This is night 4 and on night 2 she only woke once, for an hour and a half, was quite upset seemingly due to the tooth but settled with calpol and DH singing. She really is soothed by singing and lays her head down next to your hand when you put it in the cot. Then yesterday afternoon her nose suddenly started streaming green, argh, but she had calpol before bed and only woke once again, this time only taking 45m to get back over after more calpol.

Naps have been good lengths and timings til today with her cold when first was 30m and second she woke after 30 but DH settled her again and it was 1.5hr. She was up by 2 tho so one of those not sure whether to try for third nap, did but it didn’t work so she ended up in bed just after 6 and hasn’t gotten up yet, in the past she’s always wake up after 30m if went to bed overtired.

So all pretty amazing! I actually think she may have started sleeping through if it weren’t for the tooth and cold. Tonight is my first night on call tho, so will see how she responds. She’s been ok with me doing some naps but takes a bit longer with me than DH so far. And my poor boobs are still struggling with the reduction and today her last feed was tiny and at 5.30! Might express a little before bed.

So glad I found this approach and excited for you to start Loveabiscuit

Wow that's fantastic progress and so early on,that's brilliant u must be thrilled! And to get the naps as well,so good esp when she's teething and not well,she's doing great 😊
Ur poor boobs must be sore ok, its probably good to pump a bit cause a long time til the morning feed! They'll adjust to it soon tho, it's amazing the way it all works.
I might try the feeding like u suggested ok, could help relieve the pressure a bit. Have pain in it again tnite so could give it a go.
So glad it's all going so good for u,I love hearing these stories. Hope tnite goes really well,I'm sure u will get on great,I'll have my fingers crossed for u 😊

Hi ladies, can I join! Anxiously waiting to start with LW for my 7 month old DD this weekend. Actually read the book 4 weeks ago but had a holiday and then a few big events so couldn’t get going, but desperate too now, although at the same time worried about where we’ll be left if it doesn’t work!

DD has never done more than about 4 hours in a chunk but most nights she’s awake every 1-2 hours especially once we get to the early hours - the toughest ones! I feel like the walking dead and would love us all to get some more sleep, I just feel like I’d be such a better mum if I had more energy! She still needs to feed quite a bit at night as she’s quite little so I’m not sure how it’s going to go... but it’s great to see how you’ve supported and given each other advice and shared tour successes. I feel like we are so far away from the magical self settling let alone STTN but reading your posts gives me hope!

Hi corilee, ur right this thread has been great with advice and success stories and has really been keeping me going esp on the really bad days!
I'm in the same boat, dd is 6 months today and only sleeps 1-2 hrs or less every night. When I take her in with me I feel like she's attached to me all night,it's unreal! Suck suck suck,all she wants. Its so exhausting and frustrating.
We're starting the lw approach this wknd as well. Counting dwn and really hoping for some quick improvement! I'm going to still feed twice a night for now so like u slightly anxious about that part of it but fingers crossed 😊

Welcome to the LW fan club Corilee! I am so happy with how it is going. I know that far away from change feeling but we were literally in the same boat as you a week ago, in fact last Monday I was crying to my DH that I was having a mental health crisis! Not getting perfect sleep yet but last night was night 4 and DD is full of the cold and a tooth has cut, and she still managed to sleep 7pm-1.15, then was up and I think would’ve probably gone down easily but I gave her calpol which fully wakened her and it was 2.5hrs before she was soundly asleep. Then slept til 6.50. Naps today have been a bit harder to get her down, about 30m faffing about, again due to cold I think but she had a nice long well timed afternoon one. And main thing is she is SELF SETTLING! Her afternoon one was funny actually, no crying at all but standing up in cot chatting for 20m and I was despairing a bit thinking I’d gone for nap too early, then all of a sudden she just lay down and fell asleep in minutes. I wouldn’t have believed it would be this easy, but I can see now through this experience how we ‘trained’ DD to get used to boob for sleep, coming into bed etc, it got us through exhausting times but effectively taught her to keep doing it. It feels like now we are in charge instead of her all of a sudden - mental. Hope these are not just proud words of a day 4-er, haha.

Following LW advice we won’t try to move away from the cot tonight due to cold and maybe stay at stage 1 for a couple nights, but I hope this encourages you all that conditions can be less than ideal but there’s still progress and a sense that we will know how to ride our future illness etc.

I completely relate to the anxiety you are both feeling about starting, but she says in the book most families don’t find it as bad as they expect- this has been true for us. Actually what I’m finding hard now is the restrictiveness of the routine, I feel all day I’m doing is preparing for naps or meals. But I can take the short term pain any day over the waking dead feeling you mention.

I wonder how is @rosieswain doing? Are you still sticking to timings and cot naps a few weeks down the line or have you been able to be a bit more flexible and still get nighttime sleep?

That's amazing progress esp given that she's been unwell and teething! Oh u must be so thrilled it's working. What age is she again? Its amazing to think that all the times when u feel so absolutely hopeless around sleep and end up doing all kinds of strange things to get them to sleep then u actually decide on something like this and they respond so well and so quickly u wonder why other things didn't work before...hope that makes sense!

Also merename can I ask u were u bedsharing much with dd? We're doing it so much now I'm starting to think she won't want to get into her cot at all. She's been in the whole of the last 2 nights and looking the same way tonight...I've already put her down twice but in the bed again here boobin it up!

Yes makes sense! She’s just over 9m. I did a little bit of this type of approach at 7m tho, in a half assed way, having read about gradual withdrawal on a MN thread, and one night when Dd has just started waking every 30m after going down in the evening, I just started patting her in the cot and it worked so easily, and she slept for 5hts after it I think! I still fed to sleep and at some of the night wakes (I forget how many) and we had great success for about 4 nights before she got a horrible cold where she lost her voice a bit and I couldn’t stand for her to cry and had her in bed sleeping on me. After that, when I tried again she went apeshit! So I think the thing is to keep going in whatever way you can, just not going back to whatever you want to break.

Anyway, yes bedshared probably 5 out of 7 nights from around 6months when her sleep went horrific. She always started in her cot fine and seemed to quite like her cot tho, unlike DD1 who screamed if you ever put her near a cot, I coslept with her all the time until she was nearly 2. Now she sleeps great but I didn’t want that again.

Are you going to move her into her own room for the approach? Or is she already? We did that a few nights before we started and made sure no bedsharing for a few nights before , not sure if that helped, and started not feeding for any wake ups that I didn’t think she really needed it.

Is your partner sharing the load with you? I know you said you do bedtimes alone a few times a week. I’d suggest getting some help if at all possible in the first week as you need 30m minimum to be with baby going down, at the right time so not overtired. Your older one may be able to wait tho, mine isn’t great at that.

@loveabiscuit so nice to hear from you, sounds like we’re in a similar place! I hear you with the bedsharing, it’s not something I wanted to do but here we are! From 1-2 onwards I feel like she’s attached to me constantly til my OH takes over at about half 5. No one is winning here! Luckily my DD is a happy and smiley baby so the broken sleep doesn’t actually seem to be affecting her too badly - no one in my family believes how bad it is! Think they think I’m over reacting. I think I will need to keep feeding her at night for some time but I don’t mind that - would just like to see her settle well between the feeds!

I’ve already tried to observe Lucy’s suggested daytime routine and nap times but find it quite hit and miss! She naps really well when she is fed to sleep and naps on me but trying to break the cycle with pram naps etc, but they are never as good! Today she has 1 hour morning nap on me then two short pram naps. Would love to crack napping in the cot!

So nervous but excited to start. Just need to make sure my OH is fully on board - he’d just been talking about going out on Friday which is when we’re meant to start - great!

And thanks so much for sharing your experience @Merename, it sounds like it’s been really positive so far - gives me hope! I have had several breakdowns in the last week or two so totally relate. I had no idea what long term sleep deprivation could do! Also positive to hear you’ve still had results through a cold and teething, as i think DD is going to cut her first teeth quite soon, but we can’t put it off any longer! I am anxious about the restrictiveness of the routine too but we have to keep reminding ourselves what it’s all for I guess and that it’s worth it! Do you think it eases up once the routine is established or is this life now? I always used to be such a free and easy person and hated routine, but I need sleep more than I need wild spontaneity right now!

For those of you who struggle with naps, can I ask what you do on days when the naps have gone wrong? I feel like when I can’t feed DD to sleep anymore naps are going to be shorter and harder to achieve. On days when this happens would l just put her to bed early?

That's good to hear u bedshared merename as I'm concerned it's going to cause problems but then again some people probably never get them into cots in the first place. She usually will go into cot after first couple of feeds but hasn't settled in it at all the last 3 nights.
I've made plans for my little man for a few days...going to his cousins house friday afternoon and not back til sun then going to his aunts house mon morn and back tues afternoon. I'm delighted as it gives us a good chance to get going with it without having to worry about him.
My dh is going to be helping. He hasn't been able to do much up to now as all she wants is me but he's going to be the one doing the settling for the first couple of nights. I won't have to do both bedtimes on my own until next wed so hopefully by then there'll be an improvement!
She's not in her own room yet,for me it's a little too soon so I'm going to move the cot away from me and hope she doesn't sniff me out quite so much! For me the fact that I'm still going to be giving 2 feeds and that she's still in room with me are what's making me most nervous,but every angle is covered in the book so it can be done I'm sure.
So are u going for it this wknd corilee?? I'm even going to go shopping tmrw and get plenty of supplies as I don't plan on going anywhere for at least a week to give it a really good go. Obviously dh be out working so we won't be stuck anyway 😁

Oh that sounds great, you have it all covered. We had DD stay with my mum first couple nights which really helped. I’m sure you will have an improvement by wed. Really excited for you to hear how it goes. Last night was best ever for us, she woke once at ten ish and went back easily, then slept til 5.40.

Tomorrow I’m doing first bedtime with both since we started, I’m nervous tho as with bedtime routine and waiting with baby to fall asleep has all been taking 40m or so for me, is quicker when it’s DH. So DD1 is going to have to wait that long with cartoons. But at least if she can do that, I know I can then do bedtime with her without baby waking after 30m which she always used to do! I’ve had a couple of lovely cuddly bedtimes with her this week already which is ace.

We worry so much don’t we...like you say LW gives lots of options in book so I’m sure this will help improve sleep between feeds. Let us know how it goes!

That's a really good night,well done ur doing great! Lovely to get the time to do the other bedtime too,I'm sure u will be fine tonight,what child wouldn't be happy with 40 mins of cartoons 😁good luck with it and hopefully I'll have some good news of my own soon 😊