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How to start Self settling?

226 replies

rosieswain · 29/05/2019 08:45

Help! I've made a right mess of DS sleep. He's 9months old now and still swaddled and fed to sleep. Wakes 1-2 hourly every night 😢 He's miserable, tired and I need to help teach him to sleep but where to start?
I've read Lucy Wolfe's stay and support approach and I like that idea. However, last night at bedtime I took him out of his swaddle and put him in a sleeping bag. But an hour later and lots of crying I had to put him back in swaddle bag as he was like a man possessed just thrashing around and knocking dummy out etc. I did get him to sleep by pinning his arms down but then he woke 10mins later and I thought what's the point in that anyway he might as well be swaddled? I see pics of babies in sleeping bags cuddled up to comforters on their sides/fronts etc looking really cosy, how do I get him to this point? Should I try and settle him on his front then arms won't be thrashing everywhere?? What does anyone suggest?!

OP posts:
Loveabiscuit · 14/06/2019 00:55

Oh my god these little people can cause so much grief can't they! I hope u manage to get sone decent sleep.tonight merename and ur dh gets on ok. Just think soon u will all be getting good quality sleep,it's the only thing keeping me going at the mo!
Ouch no I never got milk blisters but keep getting a clogged duct in one of my boobs and even when it's not clogged I'm getting shooting pain in it....I dunno never had it last time around and he was also a demon sleeper /feeder. Shes here now sucking away yet again,its so sore but have to try ignore until she passes out cause it's absolutely the only way to get her settled anymore. I just plaster myself with nipple cream once I manage to escape! Anyway I hope everyone's night goes well 😊

autumneve · 14/06/2019 14:52

We were so overjoyed by Wednesday night's sleep through and tried not to have too much expectation on last night and rightly so as last night was a bit of a killer. Ended up cosleeping from midnight and we sleep so lightly like this. I went into spare room at 4:00 because I'd had enough and so DH entertained!!! tried to settle her back down.
Today has been very weird in terms of napping. Probably because of such an early start.
Regarding LW's advice, she suggests giving a milk feed within half an hour of waking and then proper breakfast within half an hour of that (so both within an hour) in order to set body clock but what about when they wake at 4:00? I imagine not but is that correct?we gave her breakfast today at her usual time at 7:00/7:30. This afternoon I flicked through LW again and saw the reference to the "exaggerated wake up" which I hadn't taken enough notice of when I first read the book. So should I have done this at 6:00 even though DD had been awake since 4? Anyone else done this and is it successful?
Ps. Why I don't go to bed earlier is beyond me. Stayed up watching a film last night and how I regret it today!

Merename · 14/06/2019 14:55

Oh dear clogged ducts are horrible aren’t they, and shooting pain doesn’t sound good. I got to sleep til 5.45, better than the other night off I had as less broken but I’d forgotten since my first the way that your body kind of forgets how to sleep even when you get the chance! It’s like hyper vigilance or something, I seemed to wake so often. But not complaining, feel more alive today and DH is sleeping on couch just now!

autumneve · 14/06/2019 14:56

Another thing I've been trying recently is, when I pick her up, I lay her on my feeding cushion and sit on the floor right beside the cot so she can see and feel the cot bars. Not sure if it makes any difference or helps her to get used to the cot being a place of comfort but thought it was worth a try!

Merename · 14/06/2019 14:57

Oh cross post autemneve. My book arrived today! So I don’t know about exaggerated wake ups yet. That sounds rough mdear.

You don’t go to bed early enough because you audaciously just want some time that is just for you, not dedicated to serving your tiny dictator. Don’t be too hard on yourself! Smile

Loveabiscuit · 14/06/2019 18:47

Yea I think once u become a mother u don't ever really sleep properly again. I was such a heavy sleeper before my first and now the least thing wakes me. At least u got some nice bedtime all on ur own 😊 I had another terrible night,took her in about 2.30 and she wanted to suck as usual . I think almost 5 before she slept again but even then she's waking lookin for more and we'd had I think 3 feeds before 2.30 😕 where it all goes I just don't know! I'm really counting down the weeks until I can start the lw approach,looking forward to getting going with it. I think ur right autumneve and u should do the dramatic wake up at 6 am as anythin before that is considered a night waking.

autumneve · 15/06/2019 09:40

Loveabisciit how are clogged ducts today? I had an awful case of it a few weeks ago. It's so uncomfortable isn't it!! And such a worry too, that it doesn't turn nasty.

Sleep is so up and down. I'm holding on to the hope that it's like this because she's learning and adjusting. DD slept without a break from bedtime at 7:15 to 2:30 🎉but then wouldn't settle. I brought her back into bed with me (🤦‍♀️) and she snuggled up and dosed off but then I was in a really uncomfortable position and kept having to adjust, which of course created World War Three. This repeatedly went on for two hours at which point the sun started coming up and so she decided to sit up and start a conversation! 😂 I put her in the cot and angrily left the room telling poor DH to take over (meanwhile she's screaming) but when I went back to get her she got all sleepy again and fell asleep immediately 🤷‍♀️.

So many ups and downs in just one night!

Loveabiscuit · 15/06/2019 18:59

Oh dear that souds tough on u all but wow she did another huge chunk for u,that's really good! Ur probably right there's a lot of learning and adjusting going on . But ur def making progress which is positive. I just keep thinking ahead to when it's all sorted and fantasise about all the things I'll be able to do during nap time and evening time,I can't wait 🤗u kinda have to don't u otherwise the crazy sets in!!
My ducts not clogged today but nasty shooting pain where it happens and my nipples are oh so sore 🙁 they never get a break and the night times really kill them! Unfortunately she won't take a bottle so I can't even get one feed off...

Celebelly · 15/06/2019 20:21

We are still here and plugging away! We've got bedtime sussed - down at 7 without fuss every night now. Naps are a bit more hit and miss - I do eventually get her down but it can take a while. The main thing at the moment is her waking a bit earlier than I want to get up some days! I try treating any wakings before 6 as a night waking but she just kind of babbles and shrieks to herself and then by the time she's settling back down to sleep again it's near time to get up (so I haven't quite been following the 'up at 7 regardless' thing as if she resettles at say, 6.30, I let her sleep till she wakes an hour later or so, so I can snooze tooBlush).

But in general things are good. Bedtimes are actually enjoyable now!

autumneve · 16/06/2019 07:28

Loveabiscuit good to hear the blockage has cleared but sorry you're still not quite there yet. Do hot showers and gentle massage help?
Celebelly it's sounds like you've made amazing progress 🎉🎉🎉Have you been really strict with bedtime timings? We're trying to be, but seem to give or take 15/20 mins so maybe that's not helping with how DD falls asleep.
Also because she is waking different times each day the naps are always out of whack.
Don't worry I'm exactly the same in the mornings. Even though I know we should get up, I'm not going to wake her if she's only just fallen asleep after hours of trying.

autumneve · 16/06/2019 07:28

Loveabiscuit good to hear the blockage has cleared but sorry you're still not quite there yet. Do hot showers and gentle massage help?
Celebelly it's sounds like you've made amazing progress 🎉🎉🎉Have you been really strict with bedtime timings? We're trying to be, but seem to give or take 15/20 mins so maybe that's not helping with how DD falls asleep.
Also because she is waking different times each day the naps are always out of whack.
Don't worry I'm exactly the same in the mornings. Even though I know we should get up, I'm not going to wake her if she's only just fallen asleep after hours of trying.

Loveabiscuit · 16/06/2019 10:37

Yea when I get clogged up I try a warm face cloth on it and gentle massage but really it's always the baby who fixes it eventually through feeding. It keeps happening every few days tho,it's horrible and so painful 🙁 I read an article that said lecithin can help so I might give that a go,can't do any harm anyways!
Celebelly that's great news about bedtimes,well done u must be thrilled 😊

rosieswain · 16/06/2019 14:33

Hi ladies! Catching up! Gr8 to hear all the progress 😬 We're still plugging away ...bedtimes and naps are sussed but still got the wakings at 11-12am and he just won't settle unless I bring him back in the cot next to me...need to tackle it and do a few 'all nighters' I think...but when do you ever feel up for it 🙈😆 In other news tho DS developed excema when I stopped breastfeeding and we introduced formula...it's been getting worse over the last 4 weeks so I went to the GP to get some cream...and she suspects he has CMPA! So we're on px milk now 🙄 What a baby!...should have stuck with 2 this 1 is trouble 🤣

OP posts:
MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 18/06/2019 13:52

Hello all, I've been reading this thread with interest as my nearly 8mo is a terrible sleeper, the exhaustion is making me a raging bitch and I'm back at work in 2 weeks so no idea how I'm going to function.

Basically, I've messed everything up. DS will only nap in his bouncy seat, his pram or the car. I know I need to sort this as he'll outgrow the bouncer soon apart from anything else. He usually has a nap at 9am (after school run for 5yo DD) for about 1.5-2hours and then another one in the afternoon (timing varies but usually 1pm ish) for about an hour- 1.5 hours. So he does have a couple of decent naps but I've got him into bad habits with needing motion to nap unfortunately.

His night time sleep used to be really good. Then about 12 weeks ago he just suddenly started waking in the night. He still goes down at 7pm with no fuss most nights but I do give a bottle before bed. The night wakings became more and more frequent and he started to wake up for the day earlier and earlier. So he's gone from sleeping through from 7pm- 6.15am every night to him waking every hour (sometimes more often) starting anywhere from 11pm-1am until he finally is awake for the day at 5am (if we're lucky). He doesn't have any teeth yet but is showing all the signs of teething. Im half expecting three or four to pop through at once any day now and it'll be like "oh that explains everything!" but who knows.

He's still in our room at night, in a bedside crib. I know, I know, that's not good. But he's waking up so frequently I don't see the point in moving him to his own room as then I'll have to go traipsing up and down the landing every hour, sometimes more, during the night. I know at some point soon he's going to outgrow the crib though and it'll force our hand. I've made a right mess of this, haven't I? Sad. I have PND which doesn't help as the lack of sleep is definitely affecting my mood.

Today I decided he needs to start napping in his crib. He went down fine at 9am with no fuss but was wide awake after only 30 minutes. Consequently he was moody and tired the rest of the morning so I brought his lunch forward and put him down in his cot for another nap at 12pm. He was obviously tired, rubbing his eyes etc so I thought it would be fine but omg, he went crazy!! Screamed his head off (no actual tears though so maybe just temper?) for 30 minutes before finally falling asleep. During that time I stayed with him, stroking and shushing but he did NOT like the blowing in his face. That gave him the rage!! Anyway, he fell into what looked like a deep sleep after the 30 minute scream fest but then, same as in the morning, was awake again 30 minutes later. This time I persevered though, more shushing, stroking etc. After 15 mins of half-hearted whingeing he did eventually roll onto his side and go back to sleep for another 45 minutes so not too bad I suppose?

My plan for bedtime is to throw the ipad at 5yo DD and take DS upstairs at 6.30pm and do bedtime routine. 5yo usually goes to bed at 7 so that gives me a half an hour window to deal with DS in case he does kick off... Hoping that's enough. DH isn't usually home for bedtime and is away a lot so it's tough.

I have no idea what to do about night wakings though...I can't just let him cry every time he wakes as DD will be awake all night too and she's already shattered from school as it is. DH thinks DS would sleep better in his own room but I'm worried it'll just make it worse. Also DH would say that because DS seems to only want me at night so DH won't be the one spending all night traipsing back and forth.

I know this is probably the sleep deprivation talking but I just feel so negative about it all. Part of me thinks there's no point trying to tackle it as I've failed so badly and it's too late to get back on track.

autumneve · 18/06/2019 16:07

Oh Minister don't be hard on yourself- you're doing amazingly and us mums are so quick to put the blame on ourselves for our babies' poor sleep patterns. I don't know one parent who feels like they actually got it right! And as you've discovered it is ever changing and it seems like we're always going to have to keep re-assessing and keeping on top of it.

Have you tried any particular 'techniques' or read books? Are you in touch with your health visitor about it? (Though I know HV's can vary enormously with the useful advice- my local one is terrible!). Have you got other family support?

rosieswain · 18/06/2019 16:57

Sorry quick reply...kids in bath! But that's what happened with naps here at 1st...if he was waking before an hour I would try to resettle, sometimes successful sometimes not...but the penny dropped after a few days and he now reliably has 2 good cot naps 😀 So keep at it!
Night waking it's supposed to be the same idea...that every wake you resettle doing exactly as you have been. But I'm currently same as you...once DS wakes I move him to cot next to my bed...where he does actually sleep to be fair...but need to work on him sleeping in his own room at some point! Just delaying the inevitable at the minute 🤣

OP posts:
Loveabiscuit · 18/06/2019 19:30

Oh it's so hard isn't it and we all end up blaming ourselves for the crappy sleep! Why not try the lucy wolfe approach minister? Some of these ladies are having great success with it and I'm preparing to start it in a few wks. Its keeping me going at the mo as I'm getting very little sleep the last 5 months! Rosie that's such a pity bout ur little ones eczema,hope u get it sorted. But wow ur doin so well with the sleep, amazing improvement in such a short time. 😊

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 19/06/2019 13:08

Thank you all for being so lovely.

I will definitely look into the Lucy Wolfe approach. I've read a lot of books, articles etc about sleep and they all seem to contradict each other. I tend to start trying an approach then when it doesn't work I give up because I'm exhausted and not mentally strong enough to see it through. I know I need to pick an approach and stick with it.

On a positive note DS did sleep a bit longer last night. First wake up wasn't til half past midnight, then had to put his dummy back in a couple of times but no proper crying just some half asleep whingeing and then he woke up properly at 4am, I caved and got him in bed with us but (amazingly) he actually went back to sleep for two hours!
Have persevered with getting him to nap in his crib today. His morning nap he went down with no fuss and lasted 40 mins, so 10 minute improvement on yesterday. Just put him down for his afternoon nap and it took 30 minutes to get him down, same as yesterday but he didn't scream for the entire time, so again a slight improvement I guess. He's been asleep for about an hour so fingers crossed we're getting somewhere.

autumneve · 19/06/2019 13:58

That's amazing progress already Minister! The great thing about these threads is that you can go back and remind yourself where you've come from... improvements along the way... techniques that seemed to work etc.

It is so frustrating when you feel you've finally cracked it, then it all goes awol. It can be so dispiriting. But stay strong. I find it mentally easier to deal with if you avoid comparing to what was yesterday/last week, but with what you were doing a few weeks/months back. This stuff can really drive us crazy.

We here often have a great success followed very quickly by a terrible day or two. Then it's good again and I get super excited, then bad again. But overall I think we've improved a lot compared with a month ago.

I've been holding DD to sleep a lot but letting her cry in cot beforehand but I think by doing this she's getting better at settling if she wakes up mid nap/sleep. Sometimes she settles on her own at the beginning of sleep but most of the time not. Bumbling away!!!

Merename · 19/06/2019 14:19

Hello everyone... oh I need a moan. This kid has broken me. Feeling really low and fragile today. Her sleep is getting steadily worse all the time, and previous things that helped get her back to sleep are often not working. We delayed starting the approach s we didn’t feel ready practically, and last night we’ve concluded the same, this weekend there’s too much on and we are both too fucked with exhaustion to give it a good go. But equally I don’t know how to survive another week the way things are!

I’ve read the book now and tbh feel more stressed by it as it’s so hard to follow the timings and advice, that I feel more than ever I’m getting everything wrong! Can I ask what you guys would do about this... last night DD was up and down all eve, then 11,2,3 and nearly settled at 4.30 wake up with rocking (I’m trying to consistently offer only one night feed around 11 with a view to dropping this next week) but then woke up more. I tried for 45m to get her to sleep, before DH put her in the buggy and she eventually slept, but only about 6-6.20. Then she seemed ready for nap early after all that and went down in buggy 7.45, woke at 8.30 and couldn’t be resettled. Then nap 2 at 11.30, with lots of resettling lasted til 1.10. What to do now? She’ll not last til bedtime without another nap, but not likely go down til after4, do I just suck up the late bedtime? I just feel she’s so overtired if I go by the plan - but she is such a placid uncomplaining thing so I don’t see it in her behaviour, until I try to put her down late for a nap and she screams.

Sorry I’m just rambling with all the boring details but I just feel in this spiral that we cannot fix. Arguing with DH about it too Sad

autumneve · 19/06/2019 14:31

Oh Merename. We had a shit night too (something in the air?). And DD so overtired today, naps have been all over the place last couple of days.

Would an early bedtime be an option? Remind me how old is your DD?

Merename · 19/06/2019 14:44

Thanks autumneve. She’s almost 9 months. Could do an early bedtime but even if put her down for 6, she’d still have been up 4.5hrs so I have the fear that would be bad for night time. I dunno. Is that worse than a late nap and not going to bed til after 8? Unfortunately that’s just a normal night for us these last few weeks, other than the v early start which is why naps are usually a better time. I’m on my knees. Some days I seem better able to cope with it but feel the walls are closing in today...

Loveabiscuit · 19/06/2019 19:28

I feel ur pain merename,even tho I haven't properly started the whole approach with her yet I've been trying to go by the timetable lw suggests. I find it so hard as naps a lot of days are pretty much non existent,20-30 mins here and there,def no cot naps,always on the move. So that by evenin time she's just shattered and gets so upset and it makes getting her dwn so hard,takes 2 hrs or more some evenings. But because I'm on my own 3 evenings a wk,tnite being one of them,I can't go dwn to try start early because I have a 4 yr old who needs to be sorted for bed too. Its a real pain and somedays it all gets a bit much. I'm feelin crappy at the mo with different things. I know some decent sleep would help but no chance of that! I'd also really love to be able to get her in now and go up and have a cup of tea and a biscuit by myself for even half an hr before bed but usually it's so late by the time I get her dwn I'm too wrecked and pissed off so I just fall ito bed. Sorry I don't have any advice but I really do understand what it's like

Merename · 19/06/2019 20:41

Thanks Loveabiscuit - you do know what it’s like! That’s what I’ve been arguing with DH about today, he says he knows how I feel based on having had insomnia in the past for years - I know that was horrific for him and probably even worse than what I’m going through but it is just not the same thing! But he cares, I shouldn’t take it out on him...

I went for the extra nap, so she had a third for 25m at 4.15, then was asleep by 8.15. So not actually as bad as I feared. I think I’ll follow that plan if she naps that early again. Loveabiscuit, tonight is my solo bedtime night too, and that plan actually worked out as it meant I was comfortable making baby wait through DD1 bedtime, rather than rushing it all and getting annoyed with DD1 bedtime shenanigans as I’m feeling anxious about baby being late.

I want to fall into bed now but she is religiously waking 30m after going down so I will need to go back up in a sec!

It’s so hard isn’t it. I hope bedtime isn’t too horrible for you, or you find the patience to ride it out if it is.

Loveabiscuit · 19/06/2019 21:18

Oh that worked out ok for u so merename,it's so tricky trying to juggle 2 of them isn't it! I always feel like I'm rushing ds bedtime routine and it's hard cause he's a real little sweetie and I'd love to have time for cuddles with him. And the nites dh is here I go dwn much earlier with baby so I never get to give him a proper bedtime. I actually got her in about 8.30 and even tho I'm so tired I came up and had my cuppa,I deserve it 😁ready to hop in now,prob have an hr or so before she's up again,rest of the night can go totally crazy. Hope u manage to get a bit of sleep,who knows maybe they'll suprise us and do a big chunk 😁

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