How to start Self settling?

[rosieswain]

Help! I've made a right mess of DS sleep. He's 9months old now and still swaddled and fed to sleep. Wakes 1-2 hourly every night 😢 He's miserable, tired and I need to help teach him to sleep but where to start?
I've read Lucy Wolfe's stay and support approach and I like that idea. However, last night at bedtime I took him out of his swaddle and put him in a sleeping bag. But an hour later and lots of crying I had to put him back in swaddle bag as he was like a man possessed just thrashing around and knocking dummy out etc. I did get him to sleep by pinning his arms down but then he woke 10mins later and I thought what's the point in that anyway he might as well be swaddled? I see pics of babies in sleeping bags cuddled up to comforters on their sides/fronts etc looking really cosy, how do I get him to this point? Should I try and settle him on his front then arms won't be thrashing everywhere?? What does anyone suggest?!

DD will not fall asleep crying her head off. Pick up put down is horrible too.

Aww Autumneve 😢 It's so tough. Such a shame she's getting so upset. Sounds like both of you are finding it too stressful...What about taking a break from it for a few weeks and starting again?? Assume you're following awake times so she's not overtired? X

Night 11- 6:30-2am...wouldn't settle so co-slept...why am I so weak 🙈 I'm going backwards 😫 Feel better though as he slept solid from 3-6:30 🙄😬
Must try harder tonight (or send DH in 😂)
Shame babies have no concept of time 🤔...I don't actually mind him coming in my bed in the early hours...it's quite cute...but I know it's a slippery slope getting earlier and earlier and eventually no evenings again...and I do mind that so it must stop 😂🍷

Thank you rosie. I knew you'd have something nice to say 🙂
I cried to DH last night about it (like proper sobbing 🙄). I told him I've tried doing gentler techniques (e.g. Elizabeth Pantley) but there doesn't seem to be a gentle way of teaching her how to settle in the cot. Poor DH feels helpless but I think I've got to do this so it's consistent.
We've been on the wake/feed schedule for ages even before reading Wolfe- she doesn't seem overtired. Strangely she often is happy in cot initially, it's kind of like the moment she realises she's tired she starts crying (while sitting! And even once lying can only fall asleep on her side/front). When I hold her she is immediately asleep. It's instant.

Can I just ask, when your babies cry how long do you actually let them to cry? I know in my heart that once DD starts crying in her cot she will not stop until I hold her. But for some reason there's a part of my brain that says to keep going with the crying because she might get there in the end. It's like a case of 'just one more minute...'. This goes for about 15-20 mins then I can see how red in the face she is so I give in.
I'd love to have a break from this but
I'm worried it'll turn into the 'holding out' situation as mentioned above. I kind of already feel we're in that already, as we were succeeding last week, then she was given a couple of naps in the car with Dad so that seemed to have caused a regression (could it have?).

Rosie I know exactly what you mean about the 'weakness' with cosleeping, especially as the night progresses. You sound much stronger than me! DD seems to sleep so so lightly in the early hours that I know trying to put her back in the cot is not even an option. Plus, us parents are exhausted by then too so will power is increasingly low after midnight.

Bless you 😔 I've been there with the crying too. Don't think chronic sleep deprivation helps to keep things in perspective does it?! Nor does it help to 'set us up' to sort things as you have to start the sleep training, knowing things will be worse before they get better, whilst already exhausted 😫 I was worrying about how I would manage when I go back to work next month & I have a responsible job so I think that was the motivation I needed to tackle it?
I'm not the best person to help really as I'm still working on things myself...(although I've read so much stuff I sometimes think I should re-train as a sleep consultant now 😂😂...easier to tell others what to do than do to your own baby right 🤔😆)

I'm surprised your DD fights it so much when you already don't feed to sleep? You would have thought if you were right there with her she would be ok 🙄 Don't know if it's possible but what about doing it in stages...can you get a mattress on the floor and lie next to her? Almost 'hugging' her until she falls asleep and then progress to leaning over and into cot? I night weaned 1st and this is what we did with a cot pushed up against our bed. Once I had a few nights where he hadn't fed I moved him into his own room and we started the self settling. I must say I don't know if I could have done it whilst still breastfeeding 😕
Regarding the crying...being honest the 1st night it was an hour 😢 I could get him to stop crying intermittently with the distraction techniques but only for 30secs or so and then he would start again so I gave up and rocked him to sleep. 2nd night I tried it took about 25mins, 3rd night 10mins and since then no crying more or less. I do give him a bottle tho so he's quite sleepy...I think if I was to put him in wide awake it could be different...and that's what I need to do really 😕

Ah rosie you say you're not the best person to help but with all honesty you have been my inspiration over the last week or so. I think you're doing amazingly and it's so great to hear you and your DS are getting longer stints of sleep.
In your op you mentioned how you felt you made a right mess of DS's sleep and I'd imagine that your feelings are not alone (how many times I've said "if I had the time again..."). But look how much progress you have made 😊

I felt so low last night. I feel like my going back to work has cocked everything up. But I just have to report ...
I put DD down for her nap this morning and started with the usual rigmarole. DH didn't realise I was upstairs and had made me an amazing full breakfast (bless him) so I thought I'd go down and eat while DD seemed happy in her cot. It went quiet. Popped my head in after 30 mins and she was still wide awake 🙄. Then a few noises/winges on the monitor and then when I checked after an hour she was asleep (half-sitting, kind of folded in half!!! 😂). My goodness I feel like she has given me a gift after last night's low.
Maybe me being beside her distracts her from falling asleep, as @Donthighfiveme possibly found.

Omg 😂😂 amazing!! So now you know she can do it! Stay strong 💪🏻

Hello again, sorry for the slow reply, I’ve been too tired to type! We have planned to start on Thursday night as it fits in with plans, and in the meantime preparing by fixing the radiator in the room DD2 is to go into, having DH settle her more often and getting more consistent on nap times. I wonder if she senses something is coming as she has been much worse. Last night she was up at 8.30,11.30,2, awake from 3-5 then up at 7.30. The 2hr waking was ridiculous...it’s so hard to make good decisions when tired. I fed her at 3 but she didn’t fall asleep and just fannied about for ages and by 4.30 when she was knackered, I was so annoyed I refused to feed her even though it would’ve got her back to sleep quicker. I think all these inconsistencies will do us no favours...

I know Rosie that you night weaned in advance, I really can’t decide whether to do that at same time as moving her and everything else. Feels like it makes sense, and she has gone through recent spells of only waking once for a feed so I believe she can do it physically, but the habit and the need for comfort is a big issue. Thankfully she’s not a big comfort feeder like my first was, but it’s definitely how she asks to be put back to sleep.

What did you do to nightwean rosie? Just rocking instead? I’m afraid of doing it and being left with no reliable sleep tool

Autumneve, I feel for you and fear the really awful crying. When we did this about 6wks ago there was v little crying and not that intense, but when I’ve tried more recently she’s really been screaming. I never could have done this with my first as she screamed so intensely at being put down in cot. I do think babies are all so different and sometimes the controlled crying debates are not comparing like with like, if you see what I mean. But I am more open to the idea now that a couple of awful nights may be worth it in the grand scheme of things. I was hissing at my 3yo to ‘get out’ this morning and go down to her dad as baby was stirring and I was terrified of her being woken after such little sleep. I apologised when I got up but I feel horrible when I think of her wee face , it’s not fair.

I had a bad night too 😣 Woke at 11pm and tbh I don't know why but I just didn't have it in me to sit and try to resettle him so I co-slept 🙈 What am I doing?! He was settled and stirred briefly at 3am then up at 05:50 but I know tonight is going to be a fight now to keep him in his cot 😢
I personally felt it would be a bit much to night wean, move rooms and learn to settle in one go?...so I did it in stages. Had a rough week night weaning..as like you say, I then had no reliable sleep prop to put him back to sleep, still don't I suppose 🤷🏼‍♀️ but then that's half the problem isn't it 😂 Between DH and I we basically cuddled/rocked/patted, whatever really just to get through the night without boob 😆 Took about 3 night then he still was waking 2hourly but was much quicker to settle if I just put my hand on him etc (cot was pushed up against bed). X

Then I moved cot to his own room and started the self settling in one go x

How did everyone's night go?!
DS self settled no problem at 6:30..but dummy run at 8pm then wouldn't settle at all at 11pm. Tried for an hour but then moved him to cot next to my bed again 😒....he just seems to be really suffering with separation anxiety?? He can clearly settle himself to sleep at bedtime and went straight to sleep in my room and that was him til 05:45 🙄 DH thinks we just need to accept he obviously needs me right now and we just 'ride it out'. He's probably right but part of me feels we've gone massively backwards again 😫 We're in the stormy week of leap 6 so I'm hoping once this passes he might be more settled again 🤷🏼‍♀️

Just proves that self settling isn't the magic cure to everything tho 😝

Good to hear updates.
We've had such ups and downs. The other day when she settled on her own was amazing. I felt like a new woman too!
But ever since, her morning naps have been really short and she woke up ready for the day today at 4 flipping o'clock! Which is really unlike her. I tried a slightly earlier night for her last night (only by 20 mins- so she was asleep at 6:45pm.

What are people's experiences of bringing bedtime earlier to get more sleep? Wolfe's theory was totally proven wrong last night but maybe it's DD's body clock adjusting.

I like your idea rosie of putting cot against bed. I don't know if it would just make my DD frustrated (when I co sleep and put blanket in front of my breasts to stop her feeding constantly, she just gets irritated that I'm so close yet so far)

Merename I hear ya honey, on the snapping "get out" at others (including my poor cat!). The number of times I've done this doesn't give me a nice feeling at all.

Naps were defo short here to start with when I started the 'self settling' thing. He used to feed to sleep and have a couple of hours! Then he would self settle and have 40mins 🙈 Couldnt make it up 😂...but it has settled back down again and he now has 2 naps just over an hour each...sometimes 1.5.
Such a shame your DD is getting so hysterical 😢 Not sure how you move forward with it? The cot pushed up against the bed works a treat for us...when I night weaned DH slept on that side (so boobs weren't in temptations way 🤣) and DH could pop dummy in, shush/pat/cuddle him etc and he would generally go back to sleep without too much fuss (cot is still there so when I move him at night that's where he sleeps now too). It's the only way I can think you can do it so you can lean right over her and almost 'hold her' tight to try and replicate that feeling of being held to sleep? What about a sleepyhead? Something to offer that tighter feeling? Or a one of those dream swaddle suit things that might restrict her arms a bit, like when being held? If you managed to get her down being half held half cradled then you could gradually try and lessen the amount you're leaning over until you're just lying with a hand on her 🤷🏼‍♀️ Blimey it's tough tho isn't it trying to do the right thing by these little people but also looking after ourselves 😴

I think I'm back to night 1! DS was going to get really upset at bedtime tonight so I quickly put the chair back and sat with a hand on him again to save the drama 🙄😂 He's been settled since 6:15pm (last nap ended 2:30 today which isn't helpful 😒) so let's see what tonight brings 🤞🏻

Our night was pretty terrible again, up multiple times and another long wake from 4-5.30. Again fed and just wide awake and jolly after, crawling around the bed chatting. Interesting you say about the leap rosie - I think she may be close in age to yours and in the same place. I can never decide whether I believe in the wonder weeks or not, but when I’m having a rough time and it agrees with me it makes me feel better!! App says 5 days til end of leap and I can’t help feeling hopeful. I listened to a bunch of Lucy Wolfe videos on YouTube and she said something’s about a calm but awake child being a developmental thing, which this spell kind of feels to be. She’s been crawling for a week and now getting faster, so hopefully mastered it and can settle, I do remember big disturbances with my first at all the big milestones.

I liked LW, it’s nice to get a sense of her and I felt she seemed trustworthy, good at praising parents and not making you feel you’re just soft and overattached for struggling with these things.

Following nap times has been good, I feel it’s been helpful already to think of her being tired much sooner than I’ve been recognising, and today she’s had a 2hr and a 1hr 15! But probably also as she’s been awake half the last two nights.

Sorry to hear of the ups and downs for you both. Do you ever read Sarah ockwell-Smith? The gentle sleep woman. I like her blogs and there’s one about how it’s such a myth that babies’ sleep should improve in a linear way. It’s all up and down (and sideways and inside out ). You could not get a worse sleeper than my first, honestly, and I somehow survived and she now put herself to sleep like a dream with a tuck in and a kiss at 3.5. That grounds me a bit on dark days...until I think how we hope to have a 3rd!! Good luck tonight...

We've been having a good few nights. Barely any tears at bedtime now and only a few at the 4pm nap as that's the one she's most reluctant to take. Tonight and last night there was no crying - she just lay quietly with her eyes open and I sat beside cot, just occasionally humming so she knew I was still there. She fell asleep in about 10 mins both nights, and last night she did 7-4 and then 4-6.30. The 4pm nap is stressful though - she needs it as otherwise she will be a nightmare by 5, but she really fights it

We did have one really bad night last week where she was up every hour and really unsettled, but I'm not sure what that was about!

Morning ladies 😊
Merename I think our little ones are very similar age and developmentally quite the same too! My DS has been crawling for about 2 weeks so has just about mastered it!...we've moved onto trying to pull up and stand now 😆 My app says 20 days left 😣 but I think we're normally about a week ahead so hoping that will be less 🤞🏻😂
I felt the same watching LW Instagram videos..I find her quite warm and genuine. I also think her methods seem realistic to aiming for 'longer stretches of sleep' rather than suggesting CIO and sleeping through the night 🙄. TBH if I get a couple of long stretches with 1-2 wakes for a quick resettle I'm happy at the minute 🤷🏼‍♀️🤣 Definitely agree it's not a linear process...lots of bumps in the road...for years to come I'm sure?!
Wow celebelly 7-4 🙌🏻 amazing!! No tears at bedtime when you just sit with them is actually lovely isn't it?! Or is it just me?! It strangely feels like they're quite content and safe, as if I've done a good job with him that day?! I actually enjoy watching DS rub his eyes and shuffle his head about getting comfy and then peacefully nodding off 🤷🏼‍♀️😍
Not too bad of a night here...bed at 6:15 then didn't wake until 11:30...quick dummy insert and slept til 4am but then didn't really get back to deep sleep properly until 5am and was awake again at 05:30 so got up with him at 05:40 x

I hope you don't mind, I've been following this thread with interest and thought I'd say hello. My little one is 8 mo this, has been crawling a couple of weeks, fed to sleep every night and....surprise surprise needs feeding through to night to settle again. Also end up co sleeping earlier and earlier. All sound familiar??

After reading this we were confident to give it a go last night. Well after the toddler wouldn't go to bed I could only let the baby cry for ten minutes as he was distracting her from going to sleep. My husband found me lying down feeding the baby to sleep in his cot 🤦🏻‍♀️ not a great first attempt. Shall be trying again and following this to keep me motivated!

Hiya! Yes please join us...it's great motivation!! Are you attempting the LW stay and support plan?? X

Hi AndOnAndOn join the party!

Last night I managed to avoid cosleeping until 5;00🎉 I was so proud (more for myself rather than dd😂). We fed to sleep each time but getting there.

Re the intense crying, I was so upset (we all were) by hysterical crying that I've decided to really minimise that now. Even if it means I just hold her each time rather than her self settling. Lately if I put her in the cot and she cries I don't pick her up immediately but then give her a generous cuddle and kiss and hold her to sleep. She might get the idea. Not sure. Or maybe I'm just teaching her persistence again. Ah I'm going round in circles.

Yesterday DD fell asleep in cot with me in the room but out of her sight. So I think things are changing but then today has been completely different.
I think many of us are experiencing a sense of
one minute feeling like we've cracked it and then the next minute feeling like all this effort has been a complete waste of time!

So true, that it's not a linear improvement!

Haha that’s very funny @AndOnAndOn! It has never actually occurred to me to climb in the cot but now you have probably given me another tool in the arsenal of ‘ridiculous things I will do to settle my baby’. Thinking of me cuddling and bouncing maniacally on the gym ball at at 1am last night

It’s great to have other people at the same stage and in the same mental state!! We are all too hard on ourselves and blame ourselves for our children’s poor sleep I think. What kind of a sleeper did you have first time @AndOnAndOn?

Like you questioning yourself about the cuddling @autumneve. I definitely think if the intense crying didn’t feel right, you are right to take another approach, or wait. You know your little one. I’ve read many times on sleep threads with controlled crying that it can go wrong with some babies and instead of helping them sleep, results in a baby who is terrified of the cot, bedtime and being alone. So trust your instincts I think. Although I know what you are saying - possibly you are too tired to have any idea what your instincts are?!

I’m feeling that way. We have been making our wee adjustments, with little change, but today she managed a 1h20 nap in the afternoon with no shoogling of the buggy required to keep her asleep, which felt like a victory to me. I’m just still not sure what to do - we planned to start thurs night but I think maybe we aren’t ready as I’m still unsure what to do about night feeds, moving room etc, and I ordered the book but it isn’t coming til Friday! I feel we need to be completely sure of what we are doing, otherwise things can go wrong due to the middle of the night brain! I’ve been reducing night feeds and doing more rocking back to sleep, which is not easy. She is an enormous baby. I’m not keen on doing that for long! Will talk tactics with DH tonight, he is more decisive than me.

And wool for the not cosleeping! I chucked mine at DH at 3am after having been awake for 2hrs and she spent the rest of the night in her buggy