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Original poster

Cry it out

265 replies

FannyTheFlamingo · 30/11/2017 06:45

Please can someone talk to me about the 'Cry it out' method? I am at my wits end. My relationship is falling apart and I'm so tired I can't see straight. I've tried everything, but my 1 yr old refuses to sleep anywhere but in my arms. Last night she didn't go to sleep till 10.30pm after screaming for 2 hours. She used to self settle in her cot up until about 10 months, and now if I as much as show her the cot she goes berserk and if I say the word 'bed' she starts crying. I know there's a few people on here that give really good advice, so I'm hoping someone can help!

OP posts:
LapinR0se · 04/12/2017 12:16

Oh teething and nappy rash are both awful. Are you offering pain relief?

TittyGolightly · 04/12/2017 12:28

We 'sssssh' until she is relaxed and then leave the room.

she's only 4.5 months

She should not be sleeping alone at 4.5 months. Goes against all SIDS guidance (never mind that it sounds like you completely ignored the fourth trimester too!).

Algebraic · 04/12/2017 12:36

Calm down Titty. We didn't ignore the fourth trimester. She solely slept on us for the first 3 months and then we started the routine once she would no longer drop asleep in our arms/on our shoulder.
She also sleeps in our room overnight and for naps as there is no way she would nap in the lounge in the daytime with it being so bright. She is about three metres away from me in the bedroom whilst I sit in the lounge.

MrsKoala · 04/12/2017 12:37

Others may be happy to have a baby in their bed until 3 years old, grumpy and ratty all day as they never get enough sleep for their age, but I and many others are not. That is a choice we make as parents.

I think that comment is a bit off. Many children who co-sleep are not grumpy or sleep deprived.

And I think this whole "oh, I'll be a better parent with a good night's sleep" is rubbish, quite frankly. You're not being a better parent if you're only responsive to your child's needs 50% of the time!

Actually I am a much better parent when i am not causing accidents or driving dangerously and forgetting everything. I shout less too.

Fanny - the dr gave us the all clear to sleep train and I walked DD for her nap today rather than feeding her to sleep. So thanks for the thread. And well done again xx

LapinR0se · 04/12/2017 12:49

@MrsKoala you’ve got this so glad you are taking action.

TittyGolightly · 04/12/2017 12:50

She is about three metres away from me in the bedroom whilst I sit in the lounge.

Can she hear you breathing from there?

Algebraic · 04/12/2017 12:57

Probably Titty. I am a massively fat mouth breather.

LapinR0se · 04/12/2017 12:59

Titty it is a hypothesis that hearing you breathing regulates a baby’s Breathing.
The most important factors for SIDS are that a baby is put to sleep on its back, on a firm flat surface, with no loose covers or fabrics around it.
Also important is that the parents do not smoke and are not under the influence of alcohol if co-sleeping.
It appears that breastfeeding and dummy use also offer benefit.
The breathing regulation is not well understood. Personally if all other factors are managed I believe this is the least important. It is not even mentioned in SIDS guidelines in some countries.

Algebraic · 04/12/2017 13:10

Thanks @LapinR0se we follow all other guidelines incredibly strictly but baby will just not sleep in the daytime otherwise so we made an educated decision. I've read hundreds of articles and they all said it's just a theory about breathing regulation.

MrsKoala · 04/12/2017 13:12

The MyHummy bear we have for DD has a setting which sounds like breathing. So that may be based on the breathing regulating and comforting aspect of hearing someone near. The last 2 nights DD has only woken 2-3 times when we have had it next to her on that setting. I have fed back to sleep but it's been seconds.

rcit · 04/12/2017 13:20

Op neither of mine slept. The best thing I did was to put my ds's bed right next to our bed. So he could actually hold my hand if necessary but not be in our bed making us overhead and whacking us with nighttime arm waving. Helps if their bed is slightly lower than yours so they can't just roll into yours. In order to get them to sleep, I would lay in my bed next to them in theirs and wait until they fell asleep. Yes it took a long time some nights.

Original poster
FannyTheFlamingo · 04/12/2017 13:48

Lapin - yes we're on top of both, so although no poos last night, I still changed her when she woke up, just to put more bum cream on. She's only got 2 teeth, so we're new to teething and we use everything and calpol as a last resort .

Koala - Good luck!! Let us know how you get on.

Titty - why are you so hell bent on telling everyone who makes different choices from yours that they're doing it wrong?! Algebraic's DD is 4.5 months so not in the 4th trimester. There are also plenty of parents who put babies in their own rooms from an early age. FWIW, DD was in our room until 11 months (big tick from Titty), but she has never been BF - I imagine that's inexcusable Titty?? Hmm I hope you're a lot less judgey in RL!

OP posts:
Sipperskipper · 04/12/2017 13:54

koala - don’t think I worded that right, there should have been an or in that sentence! Of course all babies that bedshare are not exhausted - not what I meant at all!

MrsKoala · 04/12/2017 14:04

The Dr recommended the website Cry-sis to me. I haven't looked. But just in case it's of use to anyone else i thought i'd mention it.

wintertravel1980 · 04/12/2017 14:29

She should not be sleeping alone at 4.5 months. Goes against all SIDS guidance....

Actually, Titty, why don't you have a look at the actual research that has formed basis for all the latest SIDS guidelines in both the UK and the US?

bmjopen.bmj.com/content/3/5/e002299

It is true - having babies in their own room does increase the risk of SIDS but it is still a bit safer than so called "sale co-sleeping" (or bedsharing - since you seem to prefer US definitions).

I know proponents of attachment parenting hate Carpenter's research and keep quoting its flaws but it is the most comprehensive study we have got available.

The hypothesis re: baby breathing is plausible but it doesn't have scientific backing. Neither does "fourth trimester", by the way. There is no evidence that the gestation period in human beings is supposed to be longer than 9 months. Initially, the "fourth trimester" metaphor was just used as an illustration to explain some aspects of the newborn behaviour (e.g. their love for white noise, being held/swaddled, etc).

In summary, Titty - please check your sources before making broad statements.

Algebraic · 04/12/2017 14:32

I do breastfeed though @FannyTheFlamingo so I suppose I get one point from Titty! I'm not even sure where that fourth trimester comment came from... we were incredibly baby led until we could see that if was really detrimental to DD not to be getting sleep. She was hysterical for hours each day. We hardly ever have that now! Good luck with sleep training.

Original poster
FannyTheFlamingo · 04/12/2017 14:48

Thanks @Algebraic It's a tough journey! The BF comment was aimed at Titty just being generally sanctimonious about everything, and the fact that she already thinks I'm doing everything wrong, so she'd have a field day knowing that I didn't BF! She's just been generally unhelpful on this thread.

OP posts:
LapinR0se · 04/12/2017 14:56

Interestingly the cry-sis website promotes a fairly robust approach to sleep training with controlled crying being recommended.

MrsKoala · 04/12/2017 15:05

Yes, it's what my GP recommended and he has a 4.5mo and is suffering too!

icantdothis2017 · 04/12/2017 15:13

The judgment on this thread is awful .
Can't we just support each other and be nice 🤔

Algebraic · 04/12/2017 15:32

@FannyTheFlamingo sorry didn't mean to confuse you I did get what you were saying Smile I was just saying I also only get one 'check' from Titty as clearly I'm doing everything else wrong as well! I was a bit baffled at her saying I must have ignored 4th trimester - bit of a thing to jump to.

What a shame mothers can't support each other. Cc or CIO aren't for everyone and yes it's true that babies who don't get their needs met can struggle in later life.. but there's a big difference between neglecting your baby and teaching them to sleep. The comments on here saying it's tantamount to abuse are ridiculous.

Original poster
FannyTheFlamingo · 04/12/2017 15:32

It's terrible! But to be expected on MN I suppose. Even though everyone is trying their best to be a good parent, some just can't be supportive. We're discussing a tried, tested and recommended technique and I think it's disgusting that some people come on here to compare it to child abuse and accuse people of neglect. What if it's said to someone suffering from PND who's already questioning their ability to be a parent? It could tip them over the edge!

OP posts:
windowSong · 04/12/2017 16:59

It's OK to do CC from a crying startpoint (i.e. they are crying when you put them down). We did CC when DD was 10 months - cried for 40 mins for the first few nights (with us popping in to reassure every 5 mins), then has slept through beautifully ever since (with a few re-starts of the method following sickness, etc.).

I'm a big fan of CC. Your lives will be so mich better within a week! Good luck!

Original poster
FannyTheFlamingo · 04/12/2017 17:11

@windowSong Thank you for the positive words! How did you deal with any night wakings? Did you just use the same routine? And did you use CC for naps as well?

OP posts:
TittyGolightly · 04/12/2017 17:30

but she has never been BF - I imagine that's inexcusable Titty?? hmm

I couldn’t breastfeed. Combination of KK cup boobs, flat nipples and a baby who had been grabbed so hard by the forceps that they dented her jaw and skull meant that was never going to work. I did try. And when it didn’t work I expressed her feeds. Every single one for a year.

I had a husband that was only home for 36 hours a week, no family within 5000 miles and was beyond exhausted. I still didn’t leave my baby to cry.

I also studied neuropsychology and child psychology.

I’m yet to hear a justification for cry it out that it’s for anything but parental benefit.