Cry it out

[FannyTheFlamingo]

Please can someone talk to me about the 'Cry it out' method? I am at my wits end. My relationship is falling apart and I'm so tired I can't see straight. I've tried everything, but my 1 yr old refuses to sleep anywhere but in my arms. Last night she didn't go to sleep till 10.30pm after screaming for 2 hours. She used to self settle in her cot up until about 10 months, and now if I as much as show her the cot she goes berserk and if I say the word 'bed' she starts crying. I know there's a few people on here that give really good advice, so I'm hoping someone can help!

@FannyTheFlamingo how were the wake ups??

@crazycatlady5 you show no empathy for other mothers in your posts and you have a lot of judgement for those who parent differently. You may claim to 'feel' for those with sleep deprivation repeatedly but you also think they should suck it up and get on with it because 'parenting is a 24 hour deal'.

Let me assure you that mothers who can't cope with no sleep because they are back at work in challenging, high pressure jobs where they could also be making life or death decisions (a concern you don't currently have), or mothers who can't cope with lack of sleep and are on the verge of PND are not part time mothers and nor are they inferior to you and your parenting.

As @wintertravel1980 said, many have tried absolutely everything to get their babies to sleep with no tears and had no success, partly because they started later and habits are ingrained, largely due to the personality of the baby. Until you are in that situation, you will not know how it feels.

Completely agree with the comment on consistency @Nottalotta. Although I felt I was being consistent at the time, with the power of hindsight, I definitely could have improved on this (although I'm not entirely convinced it would have made a difference as my daughter is so alert and strong willed!). I will also be starting routine from day 1 if and when I have another child

There are lots of gradual ways of stopping the feed to sleep association that don’t involve tears. They take time and yes you’re tired, but it works.

What are they then? Because last night dh held our 13mo while she cried for 45 mins because she wanted to be fed to sleep.

From what I've learnt, there will be tears when you drop the feed to sleep association unless you wait for baby to drop it themselves (which may not happen until 2-3 years) or you've successfully introduced a dummy. This is based on what I learnt from my sleep consultant and what my friends have experienced. A few cracked the feed to sleep successfully at 11-13 months with lots of cuddles and patting over 2-3 nights (and tears, usually one particularly bad night)

I personally learnt to accept the tears but don't leave her to cry alone. She gets comforted/stroked/patted but has to go to sleep and I stay there until she is fast asleep. I have left her when she whinged in the past but this was at the point where I knew the different sounds and also was confident me going in would have escalated the whinge into tears.

@rachelracket She woke twice at 10pm and 2am needing a nappy change both times. She hasn't had a dirty nappy in the night since she was tiny, so I'm a bit confused by it. I'm guessing it's probably down to diet, although I read yesterday that at about 12 months, babies can control their bowels (unless ill) and may do it to get attention! I don't think that's the case with DD though, I'm pretty sure she's not that calculating 😂

That’s an interesting point op. Dd is never dirty in the night, but I’ll keep an eye on it.

After dd fell asleep with dh she slept on the bed with me, but next to me for 3hrs. Which is the best she’s ever done. She then fed to sleep at 12 and 3 and was up at 6. So an improvement all round for us.

How do you put your dd to nap? Mine feeds to sleep then goes for 45 mins in the buggy (that’s the longest she ever sleeps if put in the buggy or cot).

"diet, although I read yesterday that at about 12 months, babies can control their bowels (unless ill) and may do it to get attention!"
Whatever book you read this in, please throw it away at once!

Nottalotta that's a good point and not high & mighty but, although it sounds like I've lurched from one thing to another, I tried the same routine every day with gradual retreat for 8 weeks and never got further than sitting right next to his crib. He had at that point stopped screaming for an hour or more at bedtime because he wanted to be picked up and fed to sleep, but I wasn't able to be even a foot away until he was deeply asleep. Then he was sick with HFMD for 2 weeks and knocked everything out, and I just didn't have the emotional strength to start again. But with smaller changes like bedtime etc I stick to them for a week before deciding one way or the other.

Frankly with gradual retreat he screamed to the point of choking and hysteria and ended up a sweaty, teary mess anyway, so I really don't see how it's psychologically any "better" for him and probably a lot worse for me.

catlady I'm afraid I don't buy that you have any sympathy, or at least I don't buy that you really understand. Yes you may have sucked it up and been tired but were you doing all night every night on your own with no relief from family, and working 50+ hour weeks in a demanding, high pressure job? Because if not then you're really not comparing apples with apples, are you?

@FannyTheFlamingo great to hear you've made progress. My sleep consultant told me to do nappy changes without eye contact or cuddles while sleep training so they know they won't get attention from them. Tbh I also don't think they are old enough to manipulate their bowel motions for your attention but may be worth trying it for the first week..?

When I stated I don't leave my daughter when she cries, that was no judgement on anyone who does CC - some babies get more annoyed having Mum there and not picking them up so inevitably CC is better in those circumstances, staying there works better for my daughters personality. Reading my post back, I saw how it might have sounded to others and I definitely didn't intend to judge anyone

Sounds like things are improving op which is great! I just wanted to pop in with my experience on feed to sleep. I have two DC one only ever fed to sleep for the first 15 months then suddenly it stopped working and literally overnight (okay it was probably a few nights) started sleeping through the night. I thought people were joking when they said this happened!
Now we are onto DC2 who never ever feeds to sleep or needs boob to resettle in the night but is still up ever 1-2 hours at the moment. She’s only little (5 months) so we are going with it for now but will be interesting to see how it pans out in the longer term. She can definitely self settle but still wakes up.
Just to give hope to anyone who thinks by feeding to sleep they’ve made things harder for themselves.

Manipulate their bowels for attention? Change nappy with no eye contact? Jesus. If these things don’t sound cruel I don’t know what does. Literally turns my stomach to see people talking about little babies like this. If you haven’t had to change a nappy twice in the night before, maybe your baby is frightened?!

Anyway, I’ll pop on my high and mighty hat and leave you all to get on with it.

For what it’s worth Koala, crying in your partners arms for 45 minutes is obviously much better than crying in a cot alone for 45 minutes, so to you, I apologise.

If you read the post, I said they don't manipulate their bowels for attention. Changing nappies without eye contact means the baby knows they will always get what they need but it isn't play time and they don't get interaction and play when meant to be sleeping.

Maybe you should consider staying away from threads discussing sleep training - it's clear it isn't how you choose to parent and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Ive seen your support and posts for attachment parents and you are lovely to them. However, your judgement (which comes across crystal clear no matter how much you claim to understand, 'feel' for those struggling and supposedly empathise) is helping no one, least of all, the parents who are posting in desperation and need help.

Seems you are so busy with your high and mighty hat that you forgot to answer my question. Considering what I have already tried, what would you suggest? That was not rhetorical, if there is a way to avoid cc I am all ears. But all you said is "there are gentle methods"...you didn't give any clue as to what they are, assuming they are methods I haven't already tried.

And changing a nappy with no eye contact isn't cruel ffs. It's not like anyone's suggesting leaving them with a dirty nappy as punishment or something. But eye contact is undeniably engaging and stimulating- both things which it is wise to avoid if you are trying to encourage a baby to go back to sleep. You are simply telling them it is not play time- and it is very widely accepted advice.

@crazycatlady5 I can picture you now, only reading half of what people on here write before a sharp intake of breath and start furiously tying! If you take the time to read properly, you'll see that nobody on here suggests they manipulate their bowels, it was something I read and disagreed with. DD woke up at 2am and had a poo....not because she was frightened, because she needed a poo. She went straight back to sleep when I changed her, although in your head I probably left her screaming in a dirty nappy until I'd finished my shagathon with DP!

@BertrandRussell It was on a sleep consultant's website, but not one I'm thinking of using. I think it was American. But seemed a bit far fetched to me.

@MrsKoala DD still naps on me. She's hasn't fed to sleep since she was about 5 months, but she's never been BF and she started dropping bottles as soon as we started weaning. When she starts getting grouchy, we have a snuggle on the sofa and she has about 1 hr in the morning and 1.5hrs in the afternoon.

Hope it is all going well again tonight OP? This post has drawn a lot of very strong opinions!! I think the Important thing is we all love our kids and want to do the best we can for them and you sound like you are doing a great job!! Good luck xxx

Thank you. I'm not sure I should be saying this out loud for fear of jinxing it, but....1 MINUTE! That's how long it took for DD to fall asleep tonight. She's been such a happy girl today as well. If this carries on, then I'll have to learn how to put up with DP's snoring again!

Haha! That's fab news - let's hope it continues!! Xxx

That's so good Fanny.

I'm taking DD to the dr this morning to get her ears and throat checked out to eliminate any possible reason for crying before we start gently persuading her to sleep off of me.

Good idea Koala. Hope it all goes well. My joy was short lived last night. DD was awake from 12.30-2.30 and then back up at 5.30 see what tonight brings!

Fanny what did you do during the night waking and at 5.30?

Perhaps she's pooing in the night because she's frightened? I know i often need a poo if I'm nervous or worried about something.

Absolutely agree that parenting is a 24 hour gig. Babies don't stop needing love and comfort between the hours of 7pm-7am.

And I think this whole "oh, I'll be a better parent with a good night's sleep" is rubbish, quite frankly. You're not being a better parent if you're only responsive to your child's needs 50% of the time!

Supporting your baby to learn to sleep independently is not depriving them of love and comfort, and is not ignoring your child’s needs. If anything, it IS being responsive - you are teaching them an important life skill. Sleep is vital to baby and child development. OP has mentioned how happy her DD has been - she doesn’t sound like a baby deprived of love and comfort.

CC and sleep training are not the same as leaving a baby to cry for hours on end.

Others may be happy to have a baby in their bed until 3 years old, grumpy and ratty all day as they never get enough sleep for their age, but I and many others are not. That is a choice we make as parents.

Lapin - we started again when she woke in the night, but she has bad nappy rash and I think she's teething, so took her ages to settle. She wasn't really crying, just whinging. At 5.30 I just got her up and started playing with her, then she realised after an hour she was tired!

Elephant - Maybe you're a perfect parent when you're sleep deprived, but I'm not. DD used to settle herself to sleep, so we're not doing something alien to her! And she's not pooing in the night because she's frightened, it's diet related, as she's pooing about 12 times a day at the moment!

Don’t underestimate the impact teething has on everything. It’s nit a time I’d be doing any sort of withdrawal of affection/response.

I'd read that there was no point starting a routine until 6 months but all anecdotal evidence convinced us otherwise.

We were really struggling with DD and getting her down for naps in the day. She would be so obviously tired but would not drop off, leading to a hysterical baby and us at our wits ends, walking round the block just to calm her.

We started with a solid night routine that at first took hours to implement but now is down to 30 mins. Bath, massage, bottle, into sleeping bag, story, into cot. We give her a dummy and a comforter and turn on white noise. Then say night night DD, time for sleep. We 'sssssh' until she is relaxed and then leave the room. More often than not she'll go to sleep.

Daytime naps don't go so smoothly and often need more sssshing. At first she would scream when we took her near the cot and we realised she was overtired so now we preempt that. We try not to feed to sleep and do feeds on waking instead. Same routine with into sleeping bag, story, cot, comforted and dummy. The longest she has cried is 50 mins... we don't leave the room because that's not something I could deal with. We let her know we are there and sssh her but that ultimately she must go to sleep.

Yes it may seem cruel to leave her to cry, but actually we thought it was crueller not to teach her to sleep. She would often be fraught all day and is so much happier now she is going down for naps.

We still have two night wakings (11pm and 4am) but she's only 4.5 months so I don't expect her to drop those anytime soon.

I agree that everyone needs to sleep. Babies and parents. You can meet their needs as well as doing sleep training in my opinion.