Cry it out

[FannyTheFlamingo]

Please can someone talk to me about the 'Cry it out' method? I am at my wits end. My relationship is falling apart and I'm so tired I can't see straight. I've tried everything, but my 1 yr old refuses to sleep anywhere but in my arms. Last night she didn't go to sleep till 10.30pm after screaming for 2 hours. She used to self settle in her cot up until about 10 months, and now if I as much as show her the cot she goes berserk and if I say the word 'bed' she starts crying. I know there's a few people on here that give really good advice, so I'm hoping someone can help!

Not having to drag my lazy arse up the stairs to settle them in the middle of the night

A sub-set means it comes under co-sleeping doesn't it?

Grapes are a subset of fruit. Grapes are not the only fruit, so fruit does not mean the same as grapes.

Carrots are a subset of vegetables. Carrots are not the only vegetable, so vegetable does not mean the same as carrots.

Tomatoes are a subset of fruit. People think of them as vegetables, but it doesn’t make it true.

Bedsharing is a subset of co-sleeping. A baby sleeping in a cot in the parents’ room is cosleeping but not bedsharing. A baby in the parents’ bed is bedsharing and cosleeping.

I'd rather get up but then ds is only across the landing and I'm such a light sleeper if he was in our room hed keep me awake with his constant wriggling about

Even so why would you share a room with a baby over a year old? What benefit to either of you is there?

Do you share a room with a partner? Why? What benefit is there for either of you?

I think it’s down to the sort of child you have.

We did a bit of cc with DS, who is the same age as your DD OP.

He’s generally a good sleeper and we co slept for the first year. But he’s big and heavy now and I found I was waking up with sore shoulders and a cricked neck from cradling him all night. I have back issues anyway and was just tired and in pain all the time.

So we did cc. Mainly in the middle of the night. DS’s cot is right next to my side of the bed (small flat) so he can see me, but when he wakes in the night I just shush pat him and then get back into bed.

The first night we had to listen to him screaming next to us for about 45 mins. The next night it was only about 15 mins. Then subsequent nights have been about 5 mins of grumbling before he goes back to sleep.

The thing is, in the abstract, cc and cio seem barbaric to me. I can’t bear to hear my child upset. It seems unnatural to ignore the urges to comfort them. And of course, if DS is genuinely upset, I scoop him up and cuddle him no question.

But I know my child. I know him really well. I can tell a tantrum from genuine distress. When he was crying during cc, it wasn’t because he was upset or scared. He was furious! He wanted to be in our bed. He preferred to be in our bed and until now he’d been allowed in our bed. How very dare we tell him no, you have a perfectly good bed of your own DS, sleep in that. Oh he was so cross! Really mad at us. That I can live with. But I wouldn’t feel okay thinking he might be scared or sad. Only you know if your child is the fearful sort, or the angry sort (like DS!).

It’s tough. Sleep deprivation is hell. And there is no one size fits all approach. There are some pompous, judgy twats on this thread.

(Comfort/closeness/cuddles/regulation of body temperature/security are all valid reasons to share sleeping space with another human regardless of age.)

Ah i see. Cheers.

Obviously yes titty but then, we dont have enough bedrooms to have one each.

But if my partner moved about or was half as loud as the baby is I wouldn't share a room with him either!

Again, it’s all about you and not baby there. 😉

Why shouldn't it be? Youre trying to be patronising and failing.

I would be useless on no sleep. Baby would have a shit sleep deprived mother.

Why would I volunteer for less sleep? He wouldn't get any more sleep.. What is he benefiting?!

For clarity:

●Cosleeping: Sleeping on the same surface.

● Room sharing: Sleeping in the same room

●Bed sharing::Sleeping on the same bed

Some examples:

(1) When sleeping in bed with your baby you are:
Bed sharing ✔
Cosleeping ✔
Room Sharing ✔

(2) When sleeping on the sofa with your baby you are:
Bed sharing❌
Cosleeping ✔
Room Sharing ✔

(3) When sleeping in bed with your baby in the cot next to you, you are:
Bed sharing ❌
Cosleeping ❌
Room Sharing ✔

(4) If you fall asleep sat in a chair whilst holding your baby you are:
Bed sharing❌
Cosleeping ✔
Room Sharing ✔

(5) When sleeping in bed with your baby sleeping on a bed in a different room, you are:
Bed sharing❌
Cosleeping❌
Room Sharing❌

Thus:
● When Bedsharing you are also cosleeping and also room sharing
● When Cosleeping you are also room sharing but may or may not be bedsharing
● When Room Sharing you may or may not be cosleeping and may or may not be bedsharing

Grrr - I asked MNHQ to remove my duplicate post and they left the one with all the formating errors and removed the one I corrected!

Night 3 tonight, she was asleep in 20 mins and in between me going in and comforting her, she was crying a lot less, and she was calmed instantly when I went in. I won't believe this isn't a fluke yet though!!

The norm of parents and babies bedsharing in other cultures is just that - in other cultures. In these cultures, are both parents expected to go back to work full time in demanding jobs at 9 months or earlier?

And agree with what PP have said about all children being different. You know your baby!

That's great OP. Well done.

Titty is referring to the American definition of co-sleeping (used by AAP and Kellymom website). In the UK health care professionals use definitions provided by FATE.

Wishing you all the best, OP!

For the high and mighty "it's all about you" brigade- what would you recommend, other than CC, for a single parent with no family support nearby who has no choice but to go back to work next month but is currently permanently on the brink of tears from exhaustion due to a 13 month old who sleeps for 2 hours then wakes for an hour, rinse and repeat, every single night? I have tried cosleeping - he still wakes and the only difference is he kicks me in the face wriggling around. I've tried gradual retreat. Moving bedtime, reducing and increasing naps, increasing food intake, changing nightlights...had a sleep consultant...tried pretty much everything and now feel I am left with cc as my only option. I don't want to do it. I'm sure no one wants to do it. But at this point I think I have to. And then along comes some judgey mother to say it's all about me and it's torture and it's selfish? No. It's about my child not going to nursery every day with dark circles under his eyes, and having a mother who is emotionally capable of holding down a job!!

Squtternut - There is a lot more support for CC on this thread than negativity, so the majority absolutely know where you're coming from. Nobody tries CC just because they want more sex with their partner! People throwing shitty remarks like that around are at best unhelpful and at worst just nasty. If you decide to try it then I'll be here for a hand hold if you need it.

@Squtternutbosch just ignore them and their ignorant, nasty comments. They have absolutely no empathy for others and think of themselves as far superior parents even though their allegations of abuse are their completely meaningless opinion without any good quality evidence at all.

Your child needs sleep to grow, develop and learn - this is the priority. You need sleep to function and be a Mum. Do what works for your family. I've learnt the hard way not to take comments on here personally as I was made to feel worthless for making the best decision for my child at that time. I no longer bother defending my decisions to people like that as it's like arguing with a brick wall.

If the high and mighty brigade (I assume I fall into that category) had no empathy, they wouldn’t give a monkeys about babies crying themselves to sleep.

I have repeatedly said I feel for those who suffer with sleep deprivation. Repeatedly. As I do too. Am I martyr for coping with the sleep deprivation? Nope. But years down the line I will be sleeping better and it will all be a distant memory. These posts are always going to be argumentative as it’s such a hot topic, but I absolutely have empathy for sleep deprived mothers I just don’t always believe they get to CC as a last resort (note babies who have been fed to sleep suddenly being plonked in cot). There are lots of gradual ways of stopping the feed to sleep association that don’t involve tears. They take time and yes you’re tired, but it works.

Just posting to say hang in there OP, you're doing well!!

People talking about how cruel it is are talking rubbish. My babies cried a LOT more before we sleep trained them.

squtternut I don't think I'm part of the high and mighty brigades, I wouldn't do cc and I have had a non sleeping baby. I'm currently considering sleeping with my second, because it works for me.

You sound like you've tried an awful lot of things. At risk of sounding high and mighty, id suggest a bit of consistency. When I did gradual retreat I token a good couple of months over it. I started around 13 months and my son was sleeping through (albeit waking very early) by 15 months . He'd previously never fallen asleep or resettled independently. Wouldn't nap in the cot etc. I was on this board a lot. I wasn't a single parent atm, but all of the responsibility fell to me. And will again this time as I am now separated.

There are lots of gradual ways of stopping the feed to sleep association that don’t involve tears. They take time and yes you’re tired, but it works.

crazycatlady5 - no, these methods do not always work. Close members of my family tried everything they could to teach their toddler (their second child) independent sleeping. EVERYTHING. Dr Jay Brown, No Cry sleep solution, you name it. When they finally talked to someone who is a specialist in baby sleep, she told them that the most reliable tear free method is to start "sleep training" early. The choice of gentle/cry free methods at the newborn stage is quite broad (swaddling, dummy, shushing/patting, etc). Since their daughter was 18 months old, the only options they had were (1) to wait until she eventually learns to self-settle (which could take years) or (2) to go for CC/CIO. They were so tired that they chose CIO. It worked, however, now when they are expecting their third child, they are adamant they will be starting routine from day one.

With their first child, attachment parenting worked great. He was an early independent sleeper and his parents never understood what all the fuss with baby sleep was about.