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Original poster

Cry it out

265 replies

FannyTheFlamingo · 30/11/2017 06:45

Please can someone talk to me about the 'Cry it out' method? I am at my wits end. My relationship is falling apart and I'm so tired I can't see straight. I've tried everything, but my 1 yr old refuses to sleep anywhere but in my arms. Last night she didn't go to sleep till 10.30pm after screaming for 2 hours. She used to self settle in her cot up until about 10 months, and now if I as much as show her the cot she goes berserk and if I say the word 'bed' she starts crying. I know there's a few people on here that give really good advice, so I'm hoping someone can help!

OP posts:
crazycatlady5 · 02/12/2017 08:46

Nobody is a better parent because they didn't sleep train?

I’ve not seen one person on here say ‘I’m a better parent than you’. It’s very valid to feel for babies that are left to cry themselves to sleep. It’s nothing to do with tit for tat and who is better.

HelloSquirrels · 02/12/2017 08:49

But these babies do not need "feeling for".

Theyre still loved and cared for. A lot of babies will not fall asleep being cuddled. Mine wont and never did past about 8 weeks. We would all get shite all sleep if we pandered to him.

He is allowed into our bed if hes poorly. Thats it. Older babies know how to get our attention. I dont think theres anything wrong with a bit of crying if they are fed warm and safe.

Stop looking down on parents that do things differently to you.

crazycatlady5 · 02/12/2017 08:53

I’ve never said I look down on anyone, I just don’t agree with letting babies cry themselves to sleep.

HelloSquirrels · 02/12/2017 08:56

You didnt have to say it id say it was pretty obvious.

Dont do it then?

BertrandRussell · 02/12/2017 08:58

I don't look down on people who sleep train. I think they are making a mistake, but I don't look down on them. I do worry about people who feel they have to do it to "save their relationship" or keep their family together"

wheresthel1ght · 02/12/2017 08:59

@hellosquirrels no one is looking down on her, more pointing out that there is psychological damage done when a child is left to cry. They don't stop crying because they learn to sleep. They stop because they learn no one will come and that is an awful thing for a baby to learn. In fact it is awful at any age.

Screaming for hours is not attention seeking, it is because something in their little world is fundamentally wrong for them.

I was this parent, I ignored everyone here when I asked for tips on how to do it "right" and by god I wish I had heeded the advice of the people on here. It doesn't work, it doesn't solve the issues and at nearly 4.5 my dd STILL screams the place down, the only difference is now she can vocalise and tell us that it is because she is frightened of the dark and of being alone.

Leaving a child to cry is mean and unkind at best and neglect and abuse at its worst. This mum is doing it to save her relationship not to help a child. The motivation is wrong and will fail in the long term. Yes sleep deprivation is horrific and there is a reason the Geneva Convention outlaws it for prisoners, but it is part of parenthood and a stage that with the correct nurturing will go away.

HelloSquirrels · 02/12/2017 09:08

Neglect and abuse? Leaving your child fed warm and safe in a nice cot or bed probably what a few metres away from you?

Are you being serious?

I imagine ops child will benefit from sleeping (like all humans) so she is doing it for her.

Im guessing op (and every other parent) will be better at meeting needs when shes actually slept for more than a couple of hours a night.

I dont think this is the right thread to be throwing neglect and abuse around when op and others arent in a brilliant place to start with, do you?

HelloSquirrels · 02/12/2017 09:09

And really. Physological damage?

Could you pick out the children who were sleep trained 5 years later? I very much doubt it. Fucking hell i dont even know if i was sleep trained. Do most people?

crazycatlady5 · 02/12/2017 09:20

Yesterday I was stuck in horrendous traffic on the motorway with my 10 month old. She started to cry - her crying escalated to sobbing and then almost hyperventilating, she was desperately trying to reach me and without words, begging me to cuddle her. I physically couldn’t do anything as was stuck in traffic. My heart started racing, my blood pressure was rising (normal biological response for a mother hearing her infant screaming) and I felt dreadful. Almost dizzy with the stress. I can’t IMAGINE how she must have felt if I was feeling that stressed. I cannot fathom how anyone could do that to their child ON PURPOSE. It really isn’t a case of feeling like in better than anyone else, like PP I just feel like sleep deprived parents are misguided and desperate and therefore making a mistake.

HelloSquirrels · 02/12/2017 09:25

Youre not doing that to your child on purpose.

They want attention. They need sleep.

Sleep is more important.

HelloSquirrels · 02/12/2017 09:26

What would you suggest instead?

Youre all sleep deprived. Youre not allowed to sleep train so what should you do? Accept that youll all be sleep deprived for the next what 3-4 years?

crazycatlady5 · 02/12/2017 09:30

Accept that youll all be sleep deprived for the next what 3-4 years?

Hardly. Waiting for them to be biologically ready to ‘self soothe’ (no longer needing parental input at night - because parenting IS a 24 hour deal) so they can link sleep cycles themselves. It is totally normal for babies to wake frequently in the night but somewhere along the line we’ve decided it’s not normal and they must be sleeping 12 hours uninterrupted.

crazycatlady5 · 02/12/2017 09:31

Why do we force them into something they’re not ready for such as ‘self soothing’ (giving up on parental input) when we don’t force them to do other things like walking?

Original poster
FannyTheFlamingo · 02/12/2017 09:38

@wheresthel1ght So your initial 'kind' post, wasn't really well meaning at all, now you're in the neglect and abuse camp?

OP posts:
wheresthel1ght · 02/12/2017 09:42

@fannytheflamingo I didn't say you were abusing her, I said at its worst extreme it can be classed as abuse. Surely you have seen the nspcc adverts.

You are ignoring all the advice given here about why it to do it. And I understand because I was you 3 years ago. But you need to listen to those of us who have done it and understand why it is so barbaric.

Look for why she is so frightened and work with that. Leaving her to cry is unfair because you are doing it for the wrong reasons

Original poster
FannyTheFlamingo · 02/12/2017 09:52

I'm not leaving her to cry all bloody night! As I mentioned before, I'm not doing Cry it Out.

DD used to self soothe and she did it well for a couple of months, not a single tear at bedtime. She always woke every 2 hours though because the slightest noise would wake her. I'm sure someone will be along to tell me that's because I'm doing something wrong! She spent a couple of weeks in my bed and now that's where she wants to stay. That works for some people, but it's not for me. The first night of CC, she slept through the night, for the first time ever! Last night would've been the same, but I had to change her nappy twice. So far CC is working for us.

OP posts:
Original poster
FannyTheFlamingo · 02/12/2017 10:00

Maybe you need to listen to those who have done it and had great success with it? But no, you won't do that, will you, because you're the kind of mum who thinks they're right and looks down on those who make other choices?!

OP posts:
HelloSquirrels · 02/12/2017 10:17

Surely you have seen the nspcc adverts

Dont be so fucking ridiculous.

If you rang the nspcc about sleep training theyd laugh at you and tell you about all the actual neglected children they need to help.

Sleep training is NOT neglect. Youre revolting for even comparing it to poor poor children who actually are being abused or neglected.

HelloSquirrels · 02/12/2017 10:21

Op i never did cry it out i did controlled crying.

Ds goes to bed awake, he has NEVER cried. This to me suggests he can self settle (so just to clarify i am not pushing him into it when hes not ready).

So when in the middle of the night he cries, i check hes not wet, hungry, too hot or too cold, hurt or ill. Then i tuck him back in tell him night night and i leave.

The first few times hed cry, he very very rarely does now.

He usually just shouts dummy now for me to go get it. I go in, give it back, tuck in and leave.

We all sleep.

If every time he cried i got him out of bed and gave him a cuddle hed expect it every time and i imagine do it more frequently.

Ignore the posters who think its neglect, its not. Youre ensuring your child sleeps which is crucial for everyone.

HelloSquirrels · 02/12/2017 10:22

Oh and light we dont force them into walking? Maybe not forced but its strongly encouraged isnt it. Baby walkers? Push alongs? No?

crazycatlady5 · 02/12/2017 10:41

Baby walkers? Push alongs? No?

Pretty sure they’re not highly distressed when using these.

HelloSquirrels · 02/12/2017 10:43

That wasnt your point though was it?

Your point is we shouldn't push them into what they're not ready to do. Ops child (and mine) are able to self settle. Its not abuse to encourage that if they wake up.

LapinR0se · 02/12/2017 11:47

What is quite ironic in these discussions is that children who are chronically sleep deprived are often highly distressed and cry a lot anyway.
And 3 nights of sleep training done in a controlled and informed manner can mean a much much happier child overall who eats better, learns better and can participate in life better.

Original poster
FannyTheFlamingo · 02/12/2017 12:39

Thank you for the support Lapin and squirrels. I also have a 7 yr old SD, who demands to sleep in our bed when she's here. She has always been allowed to sleep where she wants, was never really made to sleep in her cot if she didn't want to. Now she cries if she's told to sleep in her room (decorated by herself, I might add!) That was fun before we gave in and bought the super kind bed! I'm no expert, but I'm sure if she'd always been used to sleeping in her room, on her own, then she would be happy to do it now.

OP posts:
MrsKoala · 02/12/2017 13:07

To say any sleep consultant wouldn't recommend CC is nonsense. They may not call it taht but every type of sleep training i have seen requires some crying. All the sleep consultants websites (many many) that i have seen say they will not guarantee the baby will not cry.

To say think outside the box and co-sleep etc it also ignoring those who already co-sleep and the baby still wont sleep. My baby is held all the time she is asleep and any attempt to let her go - even in our bed next to DH while i go for a wee in the night - results in hysteria. There is no solution other than gentle CC that i can see. I wore her in a sling for the first 6mo, and have done 'attachment' parenting with all mine. So i am extremely sympathetic to babies needs at the expense of my own. But there are times a baby will cry, regardless of what you do. She cries whilst being held by anyone but me fgs!