New SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK thread - are we still here?

[PavlovtheCatthatgottheCremeEgg]

Another thread. My didn't we get full quickly! night sleeping good. Naps...not even 5 mins so far today...

bridget - how was last night?

tibs - well done. you too ami . i have concluded that cc (or similar) works. i do think that ds would never have learned to sllep by himself and i would have ended up ill. i'm still exhsausted but hopeful. i will do as i planned tonight as i don't want old habits emerging again !

morning all. cruise i don't think you'll be back to sqaure one he was probably just hungry or teething. fingers crossed for tonight
Tibsy i did what you're doing and it has 'worked' for us. Morning nap i put him down awake and pat him for a few mins then leave and he goes to sleep. At night i do the same but it takes slightly longer maybe 15-20mins and i do still wait until he's asleep (i'm pathetic i know ) but it's fine for us. He's still waking once a night for milk at 2ish but i can cope with that after a year of only 3 or 4 hour blocks of sleep.
Ginger glad you're back
pavlov and swizz huge pat on the back for for managing to hold down a job!
maewest 'it's just a phase' is also my mantra

morning tam - funny thing was he ate more than usual yesterday. maybe he had atummy ache? (that's excuse no. 497 from the exhausted mother's handbook).
so we all appear to be resortign to some sort of cc type thing. it does seem to work and can be as gentle or harsh as you cn tolerate. defo makes a marked improvement though. hoping we are all able to ditch the thread in the coming weeks! maybe my topic of conversation may be more varied soon too!!!

i know cruise.... what will we talk about

Cruise - not back at square one, I think that you have done fanastically so far, and that the odd night of regression is inevitable, also might have had a reason, thirsty, maybe teething? Had a headache what with all the growing? I have done that with LO too, if she really is crying, I am presuming there is a reason, and she does not seem to be doing it now unless she actually does need boob/comfort.
Sorry for those who had a bad night again, but DD had another great night. Went to sleep at 8pm (my fault, I picked DP up from work and we had to get diesel on way home!) woke up at 2:30am coughing (whats with the coughing?) and a bit of a cry, went back to sleep after 10 mins or so, woke up at 6am, had BF, back to sleep until 7:30am!!!
I am not ready to say goodbye to you all yet, like cruise. I am not quite there, and naps are right out the window mostly! They have become more random, but I think we have turned a corner. And although we have been quite strict with the routine, I cant help but think that it has mostly been DD being ready for this, with us providing the environment for her to be able to do it. If that makes sense?

pav - i totally agree re: lo being ready. ds would never have taken to this a month ago. like you also, naps are rubbish! sometimes 40mins sometimes 1.5hrs, sometimes two a day, sometimes 3. Usually around 2 - 3hrs between waking and nap depending on duration of nap iyswim.
but, like you, i believe a corner has been turned . will keep you posted (so to speak).and....well done.

my LO has decided he can do 2 x 1/2 hour naps a day in his cot. down to the second. he does not go 1 minute over. i don't know how he knows the time.

we are haivng really bad nights here again. not just ordinary bad like last week, but horrible bad. so last night he did a really good job of settling himself to sleep around 7.15. he woke at 10, 11 ( i tried to feed, but he just went straight back to sleep), 1 (still didn't have much to eat), 3.30 (had ok feed), 4.30, then we pretty much couldn't get him to sleep after that. he'd only sleep in your arms and if you put him down he would cry.
now does anyone have any idea what to do about feeding. i'm quite sure he's not really that hungry before midnight, but if you don't give him a little bit of boob, he can be quite difficult to settle back down. but i'm worried if i keep giving it to him he won't be able to sleep without it, maybe that's already part of the issue. he's 14 weeks today, have i already taught him such bad habits?
and what on earth to do in the post-4.30am stretch? i just don't know...

i think i want to try pick up put down. do you guys know, does ms hogg recommend against rocking etc when you pick up to make them calm? sometimes i can't calm LO without that. i read somewhere that it once took her 126 pick up put downs to get one baby to sleep. i'm pretty certain my LO is looking to break that record. i can imagine being up all night doing it and wonder how to have the stamina to see it through.
many people reassured me that things would spontaneously get better at 3 months, but he is 14 weeks now, and i'm losing hope for that landmark. although he's shown me that he can sleep 5 hours straight, and he can self-settle, he's not showing any signs of doing it particulary often in the night when it counts.
i thought that i was completely against CC methods, but now I'm starting to entertain the thought, though I think he's prob still too young for it. And I still can't cut that guilty feeling that I might be doing something bad, even though in reality I feel that we would both be so much happier if he could just sleep a bit better. And the more I observe him, I wonder if its going to be the only method that works. So I'm interested how everyone is going with it on this discussion. sometimes i let him cry in his pram as i know he'll go to sleep if i persevere, and i wonder: how is that different to CC anyway, just because he's in a pram? of course if he keeps going crazy, i put him in the sling, but i do give him 10 mins or so to calm or go to sleep, and he often does now.
sorry for the rant. am just processing a lot of thoughts in my mind!

amberjee baby whisperer is available on amazon 2nd hand really cheap. would offer to post you mine but it's packed away somewhere (we're slowly moving house) and don't know where it is. if you're planning to do pu/pd probably best to have the book. I totally sympathise. my ds is 14m and has only started sleeping (with 1 waking)in the last month. until he was 8 months we co-slept and then around 8/9 month mark we did our own version of pu/pd. NCSS is also very good read for your age of lo. Mine cost £3 from amazon and i'm glad i got it. her techniques are very much geared towards younger babies and breastfed babies too. I still found it very useful for my 1 year old having said that.

thanks tamdin, i did read no cry sleep solution about a month ago, (by the way i have two copies, i bought one then got given another, so if anyone wants one ...) but at the time i didn't seem to be able to implement any strategies as my LO was just too resistant. maybe i'll reread and see if i can get a bit more into practice.
i've tried to co-sleep with LO, but it is actually worse for both of us, so now I'm just persevering with the cot, though occassionally we both fall asleep feeding, and that is really nice for the hour or so it lasts.
i used to be such an idealist thinking that i could do it all dr sears way, but at the end of the day the mum's sleep is important too and i feel like i've just been sacrificing myself (esp my sleep) so much and am thinking i might need to be more active in my approach to getting him to sleep.
will try to get copy of baby whisperer. i borrowed her book from the library, but i think i got the wrong one as it didn't talk about PU PD.

"During the first several months of your babies life, he simply sleeps when he is tired". NCSS.

Unfortunately my LO never read this bit. he's resisted sleep ever since he was born!

amber - good luck with pu/pd. i have to say though, that when we did this with ds he was totally confused and got really worked up. all the comforting and putting back made him virtually hysterical so we had to abandon it . (he was about 16 weeks old when we tried). I know it has worked for loads of people but jsut to let you know that it has pitfalls you might want to be aware of before you try. let us know how it goes

Hope you don't mind me joining your thread. My LO used to be a good sleeper, settling herself well and sleeping 7 till 7 with one feed. However, since hitting 3.5 months, her nighttime sleep has really deteriorated and at the moment is terrible. She woke at 10, 12.30, 2.30 and 5.30 last couple of nights, at which point she was awake for the day . Doesn't help that she's a terrible daytime napper (has never had more than 3 short naps in daytime)so I can't catch up on sleep in the day. Am not sure whether to feed her every time she wakes at night. Am doing so at the moment as her weight gain has been relatively slow since birth (altho has picked up lately, probably due to excessive nighttime feeds...), but am beginning to feel that she can't possibly be hungry at all of those times. 4 months seems to be a time when LOs become more aware so I wonder if she's just figured out that if she cries, I feed her/pick her up.

elsy, hi and welcome, though sorry you've found yourself here. i'm having the same dilemma, whether to feed every time LO wakes up. he is about 3.5 months as well.
i read that baby whisperer has an idea if you think thye are feeding more for comfort than appetite, you can use a dummy to encourage them to skip a feed. the idea is that they might suck it for 10 mins or so and then spit it out and go back to sleep. the idea is not to replace it so the dummy does not become a prop but helps them drop a nighttime feed. good theory? i haven't tried it yet but am considering.

i've ended up tonight putting him in his cot, he has been hysterical all night, didn't matter if i held him, tried to feed him, whatever, he was in a real state. i just let him lie in his cot, and i cuddled him, kissed him, hummed to him, patted to him, etc, but didn't pick him up. he would calm and drift off and then start crying hysterically again. it went like that for about half an hour, but now he's asleep. it makes me feel so horrid hearing him cry. i feel like vomiting sometimes.
i can hear the children crying in both neigbouring houses, at least i'm not the only one and they're not thinking i'm a terrible parent!

Hi Elsy . I found that at 4 months DS stopped feeding as well during the day as was too nosy, which led to more night wakings. Having siad that, he's still waking at 6 months, so not sure I've found many solutions.

Last night was good (for us): 2 4 hour stretches! And not awake properly until 7am! Made work a lot easier. Work is fine - not sure about it being impressive to hold down a job as a) will have worked 2 days this week and b) the office is strangely peaceful compared to a wriggly, shouty baby . Lovely to come home and see him though.

Amber: so soory you're having bad nights - would second NCSS. I had to read it a few times before picking out the bes things for us, which were consistent daytime naps, taking DS off book before completely asleep and consistent night time routine. Remember there are no perfect answers - just try what you are comfortable with and what seems to work for you.

Pavlov: the Oragel arrived! DS fell asleep pretty easily this evening but will try it next time teeth are bothering him. Many thanks for sending it xx

hey everyone

sorry took me so long to get back, i went out today

anyway for all those who are wondering how he went last night in his own room, well here goes

he slept, he slept, he slept whhhhhhhhhhoooooooooooooo sorry but am seriously excited here although am not gettin my hopes up that every night goes like this

tonight he had his bath and then bottle then i put him into bed and went out he started to cry but i left him a couple of mins not long at all then i went into him lay him down and he went of to sleep, if he keeps sleeping am just gonna leave him the way he is even if he is falling asleep with a bottle as long as he sleeps at night although i know he doesnt really need it, it just distracts him while i walk outta the room lol

anyway am not exactly bursting with energy yet i stayed awake the whole night i think cuz i couldnt hear him breathing in the room .

feel for the ladies who stil up at night hope it doesnt last long and u get some zzzzzzzzzz soon

take care

Pav and Cruise, congrats for your continued success. It's very encouraging. I'm sure you'll be fine Cruise, I doubt there is any child that sleeps every night all night. You're bound to get blips and it is early days. He's doing so well.

Those of you back at work, do you have a long commute? I'm dreading going back as it can take 1 1/2 to 2 hours to get to work sometimes depending on the trains. I don't want to commute anymore but there isn't any work locally. Boo.

bridget, lol at you melting the frozen foods. I get that sometimes. Feels like my head is going to explode.

Tibsy, I don't really understand the gradual retreat. My DD goes into her cot awake and somtimes she needs me to hold her hand to go to sleep sometimes just a hand in the cot is enough. What should my next step be? Should I be just standing by the cot? I know we'd have mega tears if I didn't do it because she cries until I put my hand in, then she folds herself around my hand and drops off. I've tried holding a snuggly so that she's left holding that when I leave but she seems too wise to that.

Amber, my LO has amazing time telling skills too. 30 minutes to the second unless she's laying on me. She will still wake after 30 minutes but goes back to sleep. If she's on her own, no such luck. Is your lo going through a growth spurt maybe? My Lo did start to settle down at about 3 months but it went tits up at about 4. Still isn't back on track at 7!! Personally Amber and Elsy, I'd just go with the excessive feeding. Just I know this is mega growth time. Don't know what the others would suggest. My LO is definately better (on the whole) than she was at about 4/5 months when we started the thread.

We had another god awful night here last night. She was in bed with me all night but still didn't settle. Gord only knows. She seems to have settled better this evening tho so fingers crossed. Sleep tight y'all

Ginger: OK commute atm (45 mins to an hour on the bus). Will be moving in the summer so it will get longer

amberjee - your baby is stll very young at 14 weeks. They do need the milk overnight at this age - but not necessarily every hour.

How often are you feeding during the day?

In my experience, the nights got better once I tried to stretch the days out a little. I don't mean putting them on some kind of ridiculous schedule but just saying to yourself - no feed within 2 hrs, then 2.5 hrs etc. That way, their stomachs get used to a certain volume each time they drink rather than sacking all the time which can continue into the nght.

forgive me if i'm covering old ground but the other thing that helped me with his inital core sleep ( 1st few hrs) was a bath/bed routine.

Elsy ( have i got the name right? too long a thread to go back and check) - a lot of babies sleep goes pear shaped at 4 mths. Mine never slept well but did manage the 1st 4 hrs core sleep until he was 4 mths and then was waking constantly. It's a phase that improves but as time goes on bad habits ( such as feeding to sleep which is what I was doing until a week ago) can make it worse.

Good night to all of you hope you get your well deserved rest x

excuse me ladies, just wanted to check in before going to bed. have read posts, but too much vino to reply to you all.
juts wanted to sayt,......
ginger - i moved on from holding hands and kissing her little face, to just placing a hand on her tummy (solar plexus area). it was VERY hard, cos the 1st night, she cried on and off for an hour+ even tho i was there. and i felt like a complete cow. as i have said before, i DONT DO CRYING!!!! anyway, did it again next night, down to 30ish mins, last night was 10/15 and tonight was about 5 mins, i kid ye not. she's called out every hour but nothing has come of it and she's obviously settled herself
we have had a lovelty day, took her swimming for the first time asn cos she stayed in bed this eveing, have been able to have a cuddle with ds. (even tho he;s 12, he still likes his hugs!)
better go, see you all in the morning

ps tam

welcome to elsy

amijee, we've decided to limit feeds to no more than 3 hourly at night. even then, i think that is pretty generous. its been the case recently that he would wake and i would feed him, but he would only feed for a few mins and fall back asleep, i would try and stimulate him to eat more but he wouldn't. then of course he would wake an hour or so later to eat again, and would end up snacking like this all night.
ironically tonight, LO is sleeping, he woke twice at 8.30 but as far as i know has been sleeping since (DH doing the early shift), but i am the one who can't sleep - overfull breasts, used to waking up after a few hours etc etc.
tonight i settled him in his cot, didn't pick him up, just sat with him, reassured him, patted him, sang to him, etc. it did take a bit of crying up and down, but now he is really sleeping like i've only seen him do once before ...anyway, had a snack and am back off to bed. goodnight!