No Cry Sleep Solution - anyone want to join in, or tips from your experiences with it?

[TurtlesMama]

My 9 mo dd is a bad sleeper. We had a brief lovely period of all night sleep between 3 & 4 mths and it has been downhill from there! She does self settle occasionally but otherwise its cuddles/rocking and she will only fall asleep with me or dh in the room. I refuse to try cc/CIO and having spent a miserable 10 days doing pupd from the baby whisperer (cue a lot of screaming from her for hours at night and a very miserable mama too) have decided to try the no cry sleep solution by Elizabeth Pantley. Briefly dabbled in it when she was tiny to help with naps, but this time I'm doing it properly, sleep logs, sleep plan and all

Is there anyone else out there also interested in giving it a go? It would be great to have a support thread going - all my RL baby friends allegedly have babies who sleep lol so a bit of help would make all the difference!

Thanks :-)

[ArtemisTheHunter]

Hi ladies

I would like to join you - embarking on NCSS to try to resolve recent sleep issues with my 5mo dd and hoping for some encouragement! Her sleep wasn't too bad until a few weeks ago - we are EBF and co sleeping and she was waking once during the night but going back down relatively easily after a feed. She has been difficult to settle since being tiny, we began co sleeping purely as a sanity saver when it became apparent she hated the Moses basket and any other surface we tried to put her down on, but bed sharing and me feeding to sleep or DP rocking to sleep before putting down was working for us so I have been ignoring the 'rod for your own back' brigade.

However since xmas eve it has all been going wrong. We had planned to use the holiday to transition her to the cot bed in her own room but instead we've been struggling to get her to sleep at all. There are 2 things: she will now only sleep with my nipple actually in her mouth and removal brings waking and protests; and she won't be put down on the bed even with me lying right next to her. She has to be absolutely fast asleep or she protests and soon cries. These two things together mean it's taking hours to settle her both in the first place and when she wakes during the night. Naps are another battleground. She just seems resistant to sleep!

I bought the NCSS in the hope of something different - at 5mo she is too young for crying based solutions and I would rather try other techniques first. I was a bit disappointed to find it's mainly a medley of things we have already tried but to be fair I haven't put them together in a structured way before. We have abandoned the cot move and are concentrating on trying to get her sleep back where it was before xmas with her remaining in our bed.

So I've got a plan and have been trying it for 3 nights but with zero success so far. Last night it took 3 hours including 3 feeds and at one point 9 consecutive attempts at the PPO to get her off my boob and put her down before I gave in and waited until she was asleep. If put down 'drowsy but awake' she just wakes up, plays for a bit then grizzles and eventually cries. I know 3 nights isn't long enough and will persevere but would really appreciate hearing how other people are getting on, and particularly how long you had to persevere with particular steps of the programme before seeing some success!

I'm glad OP that you are having a better time with sleep but interested to note it hasn't been down to NCSS... Andrea Grace will be next on my list to try if this fails!

Hope everyone is having good and sleep-filled weekends.

[EmmaLL25]

Nice to hear some folk are making progress (and others just beginning).

We have had an awful cold with temperature so I could only get him to sleep if he was cuddled into me.

Once this cold is over I'm going to try putting cot side back on (again) and try into cot awake. In my mind he's going to roll about and fuss for a while then fall asleep (ha ha, so optimistic/deluded I know).

I feel I need to give it a bash for a week at least.

Questions - if he's getting unsettled would you pick up? When we tried PU/PD at 5 months he went crazy. I think he's less cot averse now.

How long each night do I try for? An hour? Two?

I can't decide if I'm better leaving the room, staying and ssshhhing or being there and doing nothing.

What has worked for folk who've had some success?

[Liveinthepresent]

Hello all - welcome Artemis hope you are making progress - I can't advise on the PPO technique really but I think you do need to stick at these things a while to see progress - or if its not working leave it a bit and try again in a couple of weeks - they change so much when this little.

Emma we had another cold here too which was really gutting as once again it was back to hourly wake ups.
I am going to also try again to find my resolve and attempt sort of gradual retreat as I have lapsed back to feeding to sleep a lot.
I
Not sure I am qualified to answer your questions as I have not really had success - but when he has settled himself - what works for me is PU/PD and the leaving room and watching on monitor pacing up and down like a deranged creature, sometimes clutching a glass of wine and working out when next to go in.
I think it's very much down to you though as I just really can't sit there and do nothing!
Good luck!
I am going to try at weekend I think so will update.
Need to look at NCSS advice ob this as I haven't actually referred to the book in weeks!

[KittyOSullivanKrauss]

Hello everyone

Live - good to hear things are going well with your return to work. Going back myself in a few weeks - eek!

Artemis - welcome. I've done NCSS with both of mine. With DS I started about 8 months, and with DD I was doing bits and bobs from straight away but she was still a rotten sleeper. I started being a bit more methodical when she was about 8 months too. With both I didn't really start to see major improvements until 10/11 months. I do think that starting to understand words helped with both of mine, but obviously this is unhelpful seeing as your baby is only 5mo! I also think 5 mo is often an unsettled time due to developmental changes and the start of teething, and of course still needing night feeds. I think your plan of continuing to co sleep but persisting with the PPO sounds a good one. I've done PPO with both of mine quite successfully. Took a week or two for them to get it, and longer for it to have an impact on sleep. One word of warning though: being able to bf to sleep is actually really useful sometimes (e.g. 5am when DD is chattering away....). I make sure DD is awake after bf when its bedtime but I still bf her to sleep for naps. Its a tricky one. But PPO definitely worth a good go to try to alter the sleeping with nipple in mouth issue. Are things any better now?

Emma - its hard to work out what to do sometimes isn't it? Esp when you're knackered! I've taken the line that I do the very least I can get away with. I've found this helpful because its stopped me tying myself in knots about 'breaking rules' I've made (e.g. whether or not to pick up). At bedtime now I stay in the room and do the least I can get away with. Sometimes this is nothing, sometimes a bit of shushing, sometimes a pat as well. Sorry not an answer!

We've had some steady improvement. She's much better at going to sleep now, and will often resettle herself when she stirs in the middle of the night (before she would wake herself up every time she stirred). Other times its a quick shush pat, although we were having a 3am witching hour when she was really unsettled (I'm not convinced we've seen the last of those...). Then the night before last DD slept until 5.10am . Fed her and got her to sleep for another 50 mins or so. Very surprised and pleased!

However, last night was another shocker, tons of wake ups, but mainly I think because she has a cold coming on. I have a sore throat and she sounds all croaky. Sounds like lots of colds going on at the moment for others, but hope there is some sleep going on too!

[tinierclanger]

Well I have cracked and booked a sleep consultant to help us. We start in a couple of weeks - wish us luck!

[Brugmansia]

We're still going ok generally with getting DS settled in the evening. Sometimes it takes longer than other times, but he's usually asleep by 8ish and will only have a brief wake once before midnight.

Night wakings though are still all over the place. On tuesday/wednesday he woke 4 times between 1 and 7. Last night he woke at about midnight and then slept until almost 4.30am. I think we need to try and night wean, but I'm too shattered to manage it at present and just want to get him back to sleep asap. He's also generally really unsettled from 5am onwards, so even if he goes back to sleep it is just in short bursts.

tinyclanger which sleep consultant are you using?

[tinierclanger]

Ann Caird, who I saw recommended on another thread. She's not a CC type - it's a longer, gentle process.

[ArtemisTheHunter]

Thanks ladies for the welcome. I can't say we're having a lot of success so far but it's early days and I think 10 days is optimistic - I reckon it will be at least a month before dd gets accustomed to change.

We are having mixed success with the PPO, sometimes she'll take it and sometimes not, but are persevering. Kitty I agree feed to sleep is really useful but I'd like it to be an option rather than default setting iyswim - also have an eye on night weaning at some point in future which might be easier if she's not totally reliant on BF to sleep. I'm still feeding to sleep most of the time and self settling at bedtime is a distant dream, but she did manage it after one of her wake ups last night so clearly it's possible! We are borrowing a cot tomorrow and planning to try to wean her off co sleeping first then eventually into her own room. I don't know if we should do it all in one go and try straight for her own room but cot first seems like the gentler approach and easier for night feeds.

tinierclanger I'd love to hear how you get on with Ann over the next few weeks and what kind of things she suggests - obviously she won't want you giving away all her methods but I'd like to know if the techniques are significantly different to the kinds of things in NCSS or other ideas such as PUPD which makes my dd really cross.

Wishing everyone a peaceful night!

[tinierclanger]

I'll let you know how much success we have!

[EmmaLL25]

Everything on hold here as LO has an ear infection. Took couple days for Doctor to spot - after LO spent the last 48hrs vomiting.

We've not been able to feed to sleep because he kept being sick and I was advised to only give little/often. So there's been a lot of pacing up and down/rocking/cuddling etc - all of which worked eventually. My back is killing me now though.

So we'll wait until he's over the infection and try some stuff then.

( maybe its been his ears all along and now he'll start sleeping . . . . . dream dream dream)

[Liveinthepresent]

Hello all - yep we have has the cold / infected ears too. Have had some shocking nights but are coming back out of it now. I am clinging on to the fact that through it all DS has been happily settling himself off to sleep at bedtime from awake.
He seems to be finding it easier to get to sleep when not overtired .
Who knows but I am having to remain optimistic - being back at work I really need this sleep to improve!

[ArtemisTheHunter]

No progress here at all. My 10 day diary was worse than the first in terms of length of time to settle, number of night wakings and total sleep duration for both dd and me. Still feeding to sleep, co sleeping, still waking on being put down and waking every 1-3 hours once asleep. She is 24 weeks, I'm wondering if she is still too little? Though these methods are supposedly suitable for any age. Hope other people are having more success!

[NAR4]

I would like to join. My Ds is 11m and wakes dozens of times a night. The puzzle is that he self settles to sleep at bedtime but screams like he is being murdered if I don't go to him in the night. Tried going cold turkey on night feeds (bf) when my dh was off over Christmas. It just resulted in hrs and hrs of hysterical screaming and calling for me, while poor dh tried to comfort him. When there was no improvement after a couple of days I couldn't continue. I find he sleeps better if we co sleep and I leave him suckling all night, but it gives me agonising back pain, which keeps me awake instead.

[NAR4]

Had a major break through with day time nap, end of last wk. Discovered (when desperately trying to contain him while I cleaned his lunch off the floor), that if I strap him into the pushchair, in front of In The Night Garden, he goes to sleep. I have done it straight after lunch every day since. He doesn't always sleep but does sit there quietly if not asleep, which means I still get a bit of a break (if I can contain my toddler). Not ideal, but needs must.

[EmmaLL25]

LO is over the worst of his ear infection - he was sleeping 5 hr stretches when unwell.

Now though he's really hard to settle - he's been up
past 9pm last 3 nights, eating biscuits the last two nights (sigh, all the things you thought you wouldn't do).

He lost a lot of weight when ill and seems to be making up for it! Is there a 9 month growth spurt too? Last night he fed for 2 hrs and wasn't asleep and was still hungry (hence the digestive).

Going to try cot awake on Monday.

[Liveinthepresent]

Hello all am still here in the land of the weary.
Back to 3 or 4 NWs at the moment - longest stretch seems to be from bedtime until 11-12 still then every couple of hours.
I am totally clueless as to what causes good or bad nights and am all out of ideas. Too tired and eager to get back to sleep to do anything but feed back to sleep.
His naps have got much easier and I think are fairly text book timings.... And he is napping in the cot at nursery.
Bedtime is normally a doddle with him going down wide awake and settling himself off to sleep.
None of this seems to have reduced night waking though.
All I can think now is to wait,until he is on 3 meals a day and then consider night weaning too.

Good luck with cot awake Emma

[itchyfootedmama24]

Hey all,
I used this with dd1 who is now 18 months and I fed to sleep, coslept and did all sorts of taboo things to get sleep. From about 12 months she self settled, slept 11 hours and is a champion napper so persevere! She is one of the best sleepers I know of now and I pit it down yo good naps and routine fron early on as recommended.
Dd2 is now 13 days old and I am just starting to enter the ball bouncing, pantley pull off and everything elae again but safe in the knowledge that I will soon sleep again! Good luck all... it does work.

[EmmaLL25]

Another update - two nights of trying to put him in cot awake - both just resulted in lots of tears and nowhere near sleep.

Then he got ill again - another virus with a nice fever this time. If I didn't know better I'd say he was trying to get out of 'sleep training'.

That's almost two months of illness or teething. I'm glad I don't have to keep repeating CC - that would be miserable if we'd gone down that route?

So we are back on hourly or two hourly wake ups unless I'm in bed.

Anyone else having more luck?

[nervy555]

Hi all! Can I join?
Tinier- your posts stand out as being exactly what I would have posted over the last couple of months (lo is 6mo)

I can't let him cry but also can't keep running up or down (our bedroom is attic- his on first floor) every 40-1.5hrs so every night I take him up with me at 10/12.

Having just read through this thread I've tonight put a cellular blanket over him (on his front in sleeping bag) and tucked him in quite securely. Hoping this keeps him asleep longer.

Really interested to hear how the sleep consultant goes.

Nb dh works shifts so no help with sleep.

TIA This is a really lovely thread.

[EmmaLL25]

A positive update for a change!

So yesterday I decided I owed it to LO to give cot naps a bash before he starts nursery in couple weeks.

So after breakfast into cot, blanket on (curtains closed, white noise on). I ssshhed and patted and lay next to him. 30 mins with crying then asleep. Slept for 30min.

Afternoon repeated, 30 mins where he faffed about but no crying and asleep for 30 minutes.

Bedtime, fed sitting up then layed him down and he went to sleep in ten minutes no tears.

This morning it took 45 minutes, but he did stop to have a massive poo mid way. Again no tears, just grizzling.

Minor improvement in evening sleep in that he managed a couple hours and I could resttle just by lying next to him and not feeding - last week that was impossible!

So hopefully his night sleep will benefit and longer term we can think about gradual retreat or something.

[Bestbees]

Hi ladies, are people still lurking here? Would love some support of like minded people with improving my seven month old twins sleep.
B

[EmmaLL25]

Hi Bestbees I'm still lurking.

We're having a rocky patch due to cold but we have made lots of progress. Have just moved LO to own room and colds aside we were down to 2 or 3 night wakings.

I think the Pull off method helped us towards self-settling which LO can now do - not on all wake ups though.

I think you have to be cold and teething free to make any pr

[EmmaLL25]

to make any progress. From what I can tell that's amounted to about 3 days in his first 9 months.

Good luck with it!

[Liveinthepresent]

Hello all - just caught up with thread as didnt realise people were still posting.
I am not really any further forward DS now almost 8.5 months still wakes every 3 hours on a good night and 1-2 on a bad night.
We have also had a bit of input from the sleep lady Tinier is using but not really found the resolve to tackle night wakings without feeding to sleep - partly because he is still in an almost constant loop of illness since starting at nursery.
Need to make a new plan but can't see much in NCSS to help me currently.

[Liveinthepresent]

Oh Emma'thanks so much for your post about cot naps - I really really need to do this and stop being such a wimp!