No Cry Sleep Solution - anyone want to join in, or tips from your experiences with it?

[TurtlesMama]

My 9 mo dd is a bad sleeper. We had a brief lovely period of all night sleep between 3 & 4 mths and it has been downhill from there! She does self settle occasionally but otherwise its cuddles/rocking and she will only fall asleep with me or dh in the room. I refuse to try cc/CIO and having spent a miserable 10 days doing pupd from the baby whisperer (cue a lot of screaming from her for hours at night and a very miserable mama too) have decided to try the no cry sleep solution by Elizabeth Pantley. Briefly dabbled in it when she was tiny to help with naps, but this time I'm doing it properly, sleep logs, sleep plan and all

Is there anyone else out there also interested in giving it a go? It would be great to have a support thread going - all my RL baby friends allegedly have babies who sleep lol so a bit of help would make all the difference!

Thanks :-)

[Liveinthepresent]

Hello all.
Thanks turtle
Seems these little ones just like to keep us guessing.
Had a fab night last night if I gloss over the dire bedtime settling which took forever and included DS vomiting some milk down my cleavage all for 36 minutes downstairs with DH
He slept from 10.30 feed for 4 hours - quick feed then back down for 3 more -another feed then another hour - self settled each wake up .
I feel like a new woman today.
tinier it's a good feeling isn't it but like you I have no idea how to replicate it. Might have just been exhausted from the evening time. Today we are having short nap syndrome and my own advice re extending naps hasn't worked - so DS will need 4 naps to make it through to bedtime.

It has anyway given me a bit of much needed reassurance that he can do it - and without any rocking.

[Mrs81]

We had a reasonable night last night (once he finally settled) thankfully. Naps have been a struggle - today in particular where he's probably only slept for an hour in total since getting up at 7am


Tinier - how do you manage to get your LO to stay on their side once asleep?

[tinierclanger]

She just does stay like that - most of the time anyway, I've no idea why! Sometimes she rolls to her front but she's been doing that for ages so I don't worry about it, as if I put her back she just rolls back the same way again.

[Helenc19]

Hi another newbie joining the group, currently reading the book and have been logging nights for a few weeks.
DS is 5 months and after initially sleeping well at night waking only for feeds every 3-4 hours and settling quickly he started waking hourly at 3.5 months old. I think partly due to teething and itchy eczema. He is gradually getting better at settling in his cot with shush-pat/leg rubs and occasional PU-PD instead of being held and his eczema is starting to improve so has slept for almost 3 hours between feeds a few times in the last few days.

His daytime naps are a big problem though. If put down in his cot he needs rocking and has to suck my pinky finger, he won't take a dummy and he only sleeps for 25 minutes before waking and instantly being wide awake so I'm not sure if wake to sleep would work. I had started taking him for a walk in the pushchair for naps as it makes him sleep for 1 hour but he has now started crying so much that I have to go back home and rock to sleep.
He isn't getting enough sleep and is always tired, I really hope I can help him.

[Mrs81]

Welcome Helen No tips from me I'm afraid, our day time naps are awful too! But hopefully someone wiser and more helpful will be along soon...

Tinier- ah, DS can't roll in either direction yet so that's probably why side sleeping doesn't work yet. I have hopes for it in the future though; I don't think he's a natural back sleeper.

[Brugmansia]

Ds definitely started to sleep a bit better one he could sleep on his side or tummy. He never liked being on his back. I think it was when he started to sleep on his side he began napping better in his cot.

[Liveinthepresent]

Morning all hope some sleep was had last night.
My night was mixed - DS went out like a light at 8 for 2 hours then resettled after a feed which I am trying to view as real progress as think he is getting used to the new bedtime.
The night was not as good as previous max 2 hour blocks and I ended up feeding at all wake ups - but some self settling and no rocking needed so again I know that's an improvement.
I must say though I don't believe this has anything to do with anything I am doing!

I am desperately hoping we are on a better track for a few days as I am off to stay with DM at weekend for my birthday and dread the 'advice' I will receive...also would be nice not to spend my birthday in a weary fog.

Anyway enough about me -hello Helen your DS sounds a little like mine - we were,doing so well on sleep at one point I was smug enough to think I had been blessed with a second good sleeper - but all went downhill at about 11 weeks.
We are doing well on naps - if you ignore the fact he sleeps only in buggy. I am sure you know all the tips especially if you have the NCSS nap book - but for me the main things were - clock watching as well as looking for sleepy signs - DS starts fussing at about 1 hour 15 from wake up and is normally asleep at 1 hour 30. In the morning he sometime can't even last that long. I find if I act quickly it makes so much difference to settling him.
If they are very tired from the night though then I appreciate this is hard to do.
If I get the first nap done ok the rest of the day seems easier.
And I adopt the do anything to get them to nap approach - even until recently if he wouldn't settle I would just let him sleep on me as overtiredness just escalated otherwise.
Any of that help or are your trying all this and just got a non napper?

FWIW for those of you struggling with naps my DD was terrible most of the time for short naps and would only do 3 x 40 mins until about 6 months. But I let her off as she slept 7-7 from about 12 weeks ... I would definitely swap the naps for night sleep at the moment!

[cakebaby]

Hi, I'm lurking with interest.... I have the book, ds 9 wks & we're not really doing anything yet. He's still catching up after large weight loss at 1wk. We have a bedtime routine & he goes down OK generally but I can see self settling is going to be an issue. If I put him down sleepy, he's instantly awake, wriggling, arm waving, anything I do makes no difference in calming him. I tried for an hour a few days ago, he was so tired but refused to nod off and ended up wide awake and cross! What am I doing wrong?

[Helenc19]

Thanks liveinthepresent I do have to clock watch for his naps, he goes about 1 hour 45 but I have to watch him like a hawk. His tired signals are very subtle and easily missed, sometimes he gets a bit noisy but he doesn't get grumpy or really tired unless it gets over 3 hours from wake up. People always comment on how alert he is and how nice it is but I have to say it is until its time for a nap and he's too interested in the world around him to go to sleep.
We had a bad night last night with lots of wake ups but quite a good day of naps today although lunch time nap took a lot of work and by the time he had gone to sleep and woke up again we had missed our weekly baby group.

Hello cakebaby do you swaddle your DS? if not might help, my DS didn't need swaddling up until he was about 8 weeks old then he started waving his arms around too much to be able to sleep. Also try white noise or shushing.

[EmmaLL25]

So last night wee man woke after 45 mins but then did 3hrs 20min (only woke because Dad came to bed). Then woke 3 times until half 12 then did 4hrs!!! Unheard of, only woke then too because Dad was coughing. Fed at 4.30 and back to sleep for a couple hours.

No idea what I did yesterday. Can't tell if its random, progress, age. Who knows?!?!

[TurtlesMama]

Hi all
Just a very quick post to say hi, still here but really rubbish few nights as the chest infection has turned into ear infection and she is waking loads and then will only sleep on me, wakes as soon as I put her down so is taking an age to settle. One nw last night was over 3hrs! m hoping is temporary blip but am off to bed now to catch up a bit. Great to hear your progress & hi newbies. Will post & reply properly as soon as things are slightly less awful .

[Liveinthepresent]

turtles you poor things - hope you get some rest. You just have to go with it when they are poorly.
All a bit mixed here but nothing to complain about.

[tinierclanger]

Well after that couple of good nights we're back to normal waking every couple of hours! And still not managed to regain the self settling. Still, at least there's hope now.

[EmmaLL25]

We started the night with waking after 30 mins, 45 mins then 90 mins. Then think he did about 4 hrs till 3 then back to hourly. I just keep thinking what funny wee creatures babies are.

It really helps to know other people are in the same boat!

[JemR234]

Hi all, I have had the book since DD was 8 weeks old but not yet started implementing - she's 6 months now! I kept thinking she would just start sleeping of her own accord, as my DS did, but that is clearly not going to happen, and I desperately need sleep but definitely don't want to do CIO, so an going to give this a shot.

Going to start the diary from today. Fingers crossed for lots more sleep for all of us!

[Liveinthepresent]

Yep tinier and emma me too - 2 improved nights and then back to hourly or 1.5 hourly last night.
Feel disillusioned ( and tired!) - going to stay with DM this weekend then am going to reassess and may be time to get a bit tougher.
I am trying to be positive that at least bedtime routine at 7pm is sorted in the last 10 days but I seem to have made him forget he could ever self settle ..ho hum
Have good sleepy weekends all.

[nappyrat]

Hello everyone, joining you after kind suggestion from tinierclanger, started to try & encourage my 5mo dd to think about self settling last weekend...

Thought it was going v badly until I read a few posts here & now think maybe it's not...

The issue isn't so much that she won't sleep - she does! - it's that she (still) wakes up every 3-4 hours for a feed. My understanding is that a 5mo baby weighing 14lbs or do should be able to go for longer stints....is that true does anyone know? Or should I just keep feeding on demand? Thanks!

[tinierclanger]

Hi nappyrat. Certainly some babies that age can go for longer. But some don't - whether that means they all should is up for debate really! There's no harm in trying to encourage longer stints but equally if you're happy enough with the situation you shouldn't feel worried because 'normal' at this age encompasses a wide spectrum of night waking and your DD may well just gradually improve her sleep in her own time.

[tinierclanger]

SHattered today, it's all catching up with me again. Self settling right out the window again. DD has very rosy cheeks so may be teething so once again I feel is it worth trying to do anything about it right now? There's always something! Going to try again to get her to take a bottle this weekend.

[cakebaby]

So....ds is 9 weeks & has declined to nap anywhere except on me since 5 wks. The time has come to put a stop to it and get him down properly in Moses basket or cot. I've been putting him down when sleepy usually after a bf and he stays there for a few mins before the eyes ping open and the discontent starts. I've been shush patting him to reassure but it seems to have the effect of winding him up. I've tried just placing my hand in his chest instead of patting too. He just ends up more and more wound up with PUPD with no chance of him going to sleep. Swaddling is a non starter, tried white noise with limited success, he's BF, has always fed every 2 hrs like clockwork, even through the night. It's killing me. Any ideas anyone? Pleeeeaasse????For the naps or to reduce feeding frequency? Or do I just go with the frequency as I have done and persevere as I was with the naps?

[Helenc19]

Hi cakebaby 2 hourly feeds must be tough, does he feed from both sides before you put him down? If DS falls asleep on first side I have to wake him for second otherwise he will definitely wake up once I put him down. He also always goes for 1-2 hours longer if he has a bottle of expressed
milk at night.
To help him settle in his cot the book recommends having him spend some time playing in it a few times a day to show him its a nice place to be, I haven't had this problem though so I don't know how successful it would be.

[Brugmansia]

cakebaby your ds sounds very similar to my ds at the same age. My ds us now 9 months. Up until 4 months or so he fed constantly, every 1.5-2 hours, would fall asleep on me during the day and wake as soon as I transferred him. I spent ages trying to get him to nap for longer and in his carrycot (which we kept in the living room for naps). I drove myself half crazy sitting patting, stroking etc. and got nowhere. Eventually i decided to give up and let him nap on me, caught up with lots of TV I'd recorded and we were all happier.

I dint think it's done any harm. He gradually started napping better and in his cot. He still didn't nap loads and his naps are short but will usually have hour mid morning and a nap mid afternoon.

With my ds, I genuinely think he needs less day time sleep. I was lent a book, your baby week by week by a friend and it made me more stressed as it made me believe he ought to have certain naps but they're all different. It is tough if you have a non napper, but it really is just a short period of time and things do change. In 6 months time you'll be missing him sleeping on you.

[Brugmansia]

And in terms of what we're doing now...... Both ds and I have colds so we're doing what we can to get any sleep meanwhile I'm reading the book when I can.

[cakebaby]

Hi helen I feed him a bottle of EBM in the night as I cannot get him off me otherwise, he was bottle fed for 1st 4 wks due to various issues & TT then went back to boob thereafter so it made sense to stick to the bottle at night to save the battle trauma we had during the day. He hs as much as he wants so he's filling up fine.

Thank you brugmansia good to hear he's not the only one. It's so difficult, when we re established BF at 4 wks he cluster fed for DAYS napping on me in between. I queried this with my HV who said just to go with it: I did and now here we are. Personally I don't have an issue with it but it's stopping me from doing stuff around the house which is causing issues now. Also I can't nap when he does and I'm really beginning to suffer now so it has to change. I think I'll try and wean him off sleeping on me and into the bouncy chair first, then into cot. What do you think? Or am I just dragging it out and doubling the pain?!

[TurtlesMama]

Hi all! (Waves)

So sorry for silence, it has been rubbish here. Two weeks of v disturbed nights, with either 45min/hourly wakeups in the middle of night or a 2-3 he stretch in one go. Horrid. Plus she has been up at 4/5am and then acts like the duracell bunny for most of the day, totally wired.We finally finished the antibiotics today so am really really hoping we see some improvement over the next few nights. Luckily have had my mum helping the last 2 nights so feel slightly less exhausted now!!

Anyway, how are you all getting on? It is a bit quiet!! Hope I don't miss anyone, here goes...

tinier & live & emma- sounds like you had some fab progress with the self settlingsettling/nights last week, how are things now? So frustrating to have a bad night after a good one but at least you know they can do it now which is fab! live did you have a good birthday and weekend at DM? Sounds like you have definitely cracked bedtime.

Helen - hi! We had yucky excema over the summer, really messed up her sleep and ended up on steroid creams as was so bad. We found a fab company called cotton comfort who make excema clothing for babies and children to stop them scratching. We now put dd in a long sleeve top with integral mitts at night and for naps and such a difference, has pretty much cleared as she can't scratch. Would definitely recommend if you haven't tried. Worth waiting for a sale if there is one coming up as can be quite expensive otherwise. For naps, have you tried white noise, sleeping bag, blackout blind, mini version of bedtime routine, massage? There are lots of other tips in the ncss nap book too.

cake - would any of these help you too? I know you said white noise wasn't great, maybe lullabies instead? I know your LO is much younger so not sure if too young for sleeping bag? If he seems uncomfy on mattress might be worth looking there, we tried a sleepcurve one in the Moses basket as dd was v nasal and had constant cold when tiny, seemed to help a bit. Sounds like you are doing great with routine already, we only got that cracked recently. Hard to know what to do about the bouncy chair - if it works then at least it helps you for now, but as far as I know you can't leave them in one unattended, so still ties you to the same room. Have you considered a sling like a Moby wrap if he is old enough? We had the same problems with pupd, think it just doesn't suit some babies.

brug - are you guys any better? Being poorly just messes it all up again doesn't it, so frustrating.

jem - how are you getting on?

nappyrat - that doesn't sound too frequent for a 5mo, I found with my dd when I stopped worrying about how many feeds she should have and just went with her hungry cues it was a lot less stressful. I have heard various things about weaning nights from 4mths or after they start solids but I think you just need to find what works for you.

Look forward to seeing your updates soon!!