No Cry Sleep Solution - anyone want to join in, or tips from your experiences with it?

[TurtlesMama]

My 9 mo dd is a bad sleeper. We had a brief lovely period of all night sleep between 3 & 4 mths and it has been downhill from there! She does self settle occasionally but otherwise its cuddles/rocking and she will only fall asleep with me or dh in the room. I refuse to try cc/CIO and having spent a miserable 10 days doing pupd from the baby whisperer (cue a lot of screaming from her for hours at night and a very miserable mama too) have decided to try the no cry sleep solution by Elizabeth Pantley. Briefly dabbled in it when she was tiny to help with naps, but this time I'm doing it properly, sleep logs, sleep plan and all

Is there anyone else out there also interested in giving it a go? It would be great to have a support thread going - all my RL baby friends allegedly have babies who sleep lol so a bit of help would make all the difference!

Thanks :-)

Last few nights fairly hit and miss. We had multiple wake ups before we went to bed on Saturday night. Slept better once we were through.

He's usually waking after 45 mins after going to bed but will then tend to do 2.5-3 hr stretches.

Last night he went to sleep himself, we were lying down feeding and he came off himself, rolled about a bit then asleep! Lasted 3hrs on his own.

I think the 'lovey' is helping. He's going to sleep hugging his bunny toy. I think it's helping him settle back to sleep that he can still feel it when he stirs.

As comfort - I know a few babies aged 4 - 6 months who were all pretty good sleepers and without fail they've all started waking again - due to hunger, pooping, being unwell and just because. We are not alone!

Hello all
Good to know you are still there turtles sorry to hear it has been so unsettled.
Illness etc is a nightmare for sending things haywire.

Our weekend went reasonably well - it took so long to settle DS on night one that my Dsis insisted on babysitting the second night and DH and I managed a night out.

We have cracked bedtime to a degree but I never know how long until the first wake up which can be frustrating.
DS has been a little more settled but he is definitely reliant on being rocked to settle for the night and used to waking for milk as frequently as in the day.
If I did a ten day sleep log it would look a bit better but not linear improvement.
I fear that I may need to do something a little less gentle soon because it is hard to see how we will crack these two things without a clear plan.

Hi, it's a bit up and down here but I think we are gradually moving in the right direction. Night waking have been less now we have steroid cream for his eczema. The last few nights he has been wide wake after his feed at about 4am and has taken a while to get him to sleep but has done with sushing and leg rubs. Now I need to gradually retreat from that.
Naps have been mixed, yesterday Was great, he easily had a 30 minute morning nap, we then went to baby yoga and he slept through the whole uclass 1.5hours and 45 minute after noon nap. Today wasn't so good though, only 1 hour in total.

Just going backwards here :( DD seems to want to spend whole nights attached to my nipple, not really feeding most of the time but latched on. Mostly I've been relaxed and accepting about things but right now I just feel down. On the one hand I feel she just really needs the cuddles and milk at night right now and on the other a nagging voice in my head is just telling me I'm failing here and all of us.

I've been Pantley pulling off forever now but she's so persistent! I just need a little sign of improvement :(

Last night even in bed with me she just kept flapping one arm! Whats that about?!

It seems we have been going backwards a bit here, but maybe it just feels that way because I feel so rubbish. He had been settling well in the evening but the last couple of nights that has taken much longer. He was then waking for the day early, which is not fun. Naps seem to be going down hill again. Just when he seems close to nodding off he pings awake and starts bouncing in his cot. He

Having said that, last night he woke a couple of times very soon after first going down and then did not wake until 3am which is better and then only at 5am before starting the day shortly after 7. Fingers crossed this is progress rather than a blip.

I'm not going to start anything formal until next week when I'm feeling better hopefully. I decided to start with a lovey and decided something new may be needed as nothing we had was obviously suitable and I didn't want something that may have pre-existing associations. That is on its way and will be here at the weekend.

I think we are a bit stuck, but things are a lot better than they have been.

Will now sleep from half six for maybe 2.5-3 hrs. If Dad does first couple settles when can get through to 11pm or even midnight before feeding again. Will wake again about half 1 then do till half 4/5. Another feed will see through to half 6 or even half 7.

I would appreciate some advice though. We are using pull off method. I'll feed with LO on pillow, stop when almost asleep and but him in cot. Then he usually wakes up, so I'll let down with him (we are using side sleeper cot) and feed again till drowsy and pull out again. He'll usually stir a little, sometimes he'll have a peek about or move a little, but will sleep. So this is fine just now but I wonder how I get up stage of being able to put down in cot drowsy - otherwise we can't stop using side sleeper and progress to own cot /room. I'm only trying the put down once each night otherwise I think we'd be at it for ages and its not fair for him to keep having sleep disturbed.

This is all fine at home but at Christmas we are staying with family and for various reasons co sleeping or side sleeping wont be an option. So I want up try progress to putting in cot drowsy. Any thoughts?

He's quite a big baby and long so I find it hard to move him smoothly sometimes.

Sorry for long post!

Hello everyone, I joined this fab thread weeks ago but haven't managed to post in ages...

Brugmansia, your LO sounds EXACTLY like mine, in fact I think they may be twins separated at birth... :)

Have been struggling with hideous early waking here, I just can't deal with the perkiness at 4.30am, and then I feel bad as she is so cheery, it's just the worng time of day for it!!

Does anyone know if it's a bad idea to start NCSS training in the middle of what I suspect could be 9-month sleep regression? Should I maybe tough it out until things get vaguely back to their (bad) normal and then start? Or is there no time like the present?

Have only just started reading the book as I have been too tired ;) but am getting my hopes up that it will SOLVE EVERYTHING.

In all honesty I could just handle it if I had 1 or 2 less wakings at night.

Apart from Brug, does anyone else have a LO who doesn't seem to be able to get enough food?! DD has big lunches and dinners, decent-ish breakfasts, small snacks and plenty of milk, and still we haven't managed to get past midnight waking to feed since she was 5ish months old.

Does NCSS take this into account at all?

Good luck everyone, it is nice to know there are others in the same boat, it can feel very very lonely at 3am :(

Hello everyone it's nice to see a couple of updates and some signs of progress.
Have to say I am feeling despondent - and am debating whether there is a a way of going cold turkey on rocking to sleep.
It may be regression that will pass anyway but things continue to remain the same and 6 wake ups is not unusual.
I need to see progress before I go back to work in January.
So Emma my mission is similar to yours but my problem is rocking not feeding and my DS is only 20 weeks so you will probably all think I am being impatient.
I love the NCSS approach but since I started I don't feel I have make any progress on self settling at all. It is too tempting to feed or rock in the middle of the night as I am getting max 1.5 hour stretches of sleep and we worry about waking DD if there is any crying.
Am at a loss as to how to proceed.
Every night I try putting him down drowsy but it is pointless as,he cries and I pick him up and rock...
Any bright ideas anyone? i am too tired to revisit the book!

Sorry for whinging me me me post!

Hi all, progress report....well we've not really been trying very hard i'm afraid. Been very fussy, possibly slightly under the weather or on cusp of 12 wk growth spurt. Has been napping in bouncy chair (baby Bjorn...fabulous) twice in morning (50 mins each-ish) and in afternoon (2hrs ish) or in car seat if we've been out. Bath at 6, rest of routine then bed by 7 by which time he is tired. Can take an hr for him to nod off and wakes every 3 hrs at the mo for feed, but I think we're doing OK. Only feeding for 5-10 mins (bf) every 2 hrs daytime which is a drastic reduction in duration but he put on 1 1\2 lbs in 2 1\2 wks so must be doing something right! Would dearly love longer sleep at night but he's like clock work with 3 hr wakings and is a hungry boy.

Hi allall

Lovely to see so many updates, sorry to hear things not going so great. We are having a really tough time too. We had a couple of better nights after she finished the antibiotics but since the weekend it has been hellish again - either up for a solid 2-3 hrs in the middle of the night or very frequent wakings over the same period, and invariably up between 4-5 usually for a feed eventually, but wakes not really needing one. Have been doing the phase one bit of the 6phase thingy. If she is tired enough it works but when she is overtired or for night wakings she pings awake as soon as she touches the mattress in which case I just hold her for 5-10mins til she is really asleep, which goes completely against the point of it all. One night last week she did completely self settle in 20mins at bedtime (I sometimes start by trying that if she is not overtired), but then we had an appalling night so its hard to see a correlation between self settling and less nightwakings .

Anyone have any thoughts on:

• how to stop the frequency/length of the middle of the night wakings
• how to move past phase 1 of the 6phases
• how to deal with and reduce the early wakingswakings

And anyone else seem to be suffering with constant teething without any new teeth?! We have only 2 at 10mo!

Am really struggling with it all and so tired!! Feels like 1 step forward and 3 back all the time!

emma - glad the lovey is helping, we have a couple of toys but they don't seem to do much, was thinking of getting one of those blankie ones but not sure if they are safe for overnight. What sort do you have? Afraid I cant help on the pull off as we are ff.

tinier hope you're having a better week. You're not failing her! You're doing your best and a really good job, its just so hard to see that when you're tired. Hopefully this is just a growth spurt and the feeds will ease up soon.

emerald hi again!! We also have the 4am chirpiness and its awful. I feel bad being annoyed too!! We also get it at 1,2 etc lol. My dd also eats like a horse but tends not to need milk until early morn. I wouldn't worry about the 9mth regression, we are always in the middle of a regression, development leap (wonder weeks!) or teething so I think there is no right time...

live sorry its so tough, sounds like you're in a similar position to us, other than the age. Am also continually rocking and just don't see how its going to stop unless she grows out of it. Can't hack cc/CIO (I couldn't even hack the crying in pupd though lol) so yes its a tough one. I am just trying to get thru it a day at a time at the mo and just accept that this is how it is for now, and that there will be good and bad weeks and eventually she will grow out of it, or the weaning from rocking will improve. In theory. I hope...Sorry not to be more helpful! If you find a way of stopping the rocking please please let me know!!

brug hope you're better, have got a cold too and its pants!! Hope the lovey helps too.

Look forward to reading your updates

Morning again everyone. Thanks for update turtles yes we are in similar boat with the wretched rocking. Sorry you are still struggling I am not sure I am in a position to advise!
The last few nights have been awful - for example after a 2 hour stretch when I went to bed DS has woken at least every hour often more - waking crying settling ok but waking up as soon as I put him down. It it worse than ever and I can't see any cause.
I am so exhausted my eyes are stinging my back is aching and at the moment if it weren't only a kindle copy I would cheerfully bin NCSS book for giving me false hope.
I keep scaring myself witless with all the threads about toddlers who still sleep badly and convincing myself I have given DS these bad sleep habits.

cake I think you are doing ok for 12 weeks ? Impressive weight gain. Based on my experience I would just really keep an eye on not creating bad habits for settling. We love our Baby Bjorn bouncer too !

Anyway sorry to be so negative again hopefully things will look brighter after a shower and strong coffee!

Hi live I am wary of creating bad habits, having read the awful toddler experience threads! Self settling is hard, he gets so upset and ends up totally wide awake and distraught even though I'm right next to him. Any top tops on what to avoid or alternatives ? I stopped rocking at 5 weeks after reading it on here! Shame as it worked a treat.

cake it's so hard isn't it - at 12 weeks my DS could self settle easily at bedtime so I feel even worse he is now a motion addict!
At 12 weeks I wasn't worried about creating issues further down the line as they are still so little - but you can see from people like me how badly it can go wrong.
I think all the advise is to try not to pick them up - but even that is hard I know.
Are you putting him down drowsy or wide awake ? I think NCSs recommends drowsy - but I can't even manage that!
Clearly I am not a good person to advise!

Well, he is drowsy until the second I start to lower him to his cot! Then he knows what's coming and is suddenly wide awake, starts kicking his little legs in upset, then the arms start and before i know it he's a writhing wild flurry of arms and legs with the bottom lip stuck firmly out! You can forget PUPD, I only take him out if he gets distraught or hiccups. I try and settle him with sshhhing and a bottle but take it away before he nods off which is hard as he sometimes falls asleep mid slurp. I've tried the wake to sleep thing too, worked once, failed a bit the 2nd time and epic fail the 3rd up all night.... not been brave enough since!

Oh cake that sounds really stressful ! Are you giving him playtime in his cot in the day to build positive associations - worth a try if not ? Not sure what else to suggest maybe someone more successful can help you.

We are trying to pluck up courage to move DS from Moses basket which he really has outgrown - but I am feeling so cowardly about any changes that might make things even worse!
Has anyone found this transition easy or even improved things with a non sleeping baby?

Hi all

cake & live awh it sounds tough. Live I don't know how you are coping with hourly, that's amazing. I don't know if it helps but my friend's ds went thru a period of hourly at about that age and he is now at 11mo an (annoyingly!) fab night sleeper - often 12hrs & 1 nw is a disturbed night!! So there is definitely hope . Also we had dd out of Moses at 8weeks for night sleep (& kept it downstairs for naps a bit longer). She is a thrasher/wriggler and definitely liked the extra room, slept v well (initially til 4mth regression which we never recovered from lol)

I know what you mean about giving them bad habits but looking back I don't actually regret anything I did as it was right at the time - other than the 10days of pupd/constant crying which I wish I hadn't done. It just doesn't feel wrong to cuddle a crying baby! I do genuinely think that some babies do just struggle with sleep whatever you do although I accept that if they can easily get into good habits young its easier later!

Cake - have you tried the pantley dance for getting him down? That used to work with dd when little, I don't know if it would work for putting down drowsy but I guess its worth a try?

Hope you all have better nights!

Thanks for the message of support turtles thankfully last night was a return to the 2-3 hour stretches so I feel human today -'it's amazing to find that feels like enough sleep now!
I felt so low yesterday - most definitely not coping with the hourly wake ups so DH and I have agreed we will join forces and try to get progress on the self settling.
Not sure what that will look like yet - I was wondering about ssh pat and PUPD but turtles tell me of you think that is the route to madness as it clearly didn't work for you?
I just feel like this isn't going to improve by itself.
What did your friends do to make their 11 month old turn the corner - did it sort itself out?
Has anyone cracked the selfsettling using NCSS or are we all still stuck,on phase 1?

Wish you all sleep filled weekends.

Someone remind me why i'm doing this please! DS finally nodded off (for now) after 95 mins crying on and off (when i took the milk away) as i'm trying to stop feeding to sleep. He was totally distraught after 90 mins, so was I and I gave in. 5 mins later he's asleep. He's so little, I feel awful.

Shameless place marking.

Losing the will to live here....question for you all, if you leave your LO to cry to sleep whilst lying beside them, hand holding and shushing, is that the same as CIO?

Hi cake

No of course it's not as you are there and they are not alone. Totally different from leaving them to cry on their own.

It all sounds very hard for you at the moment :(

It's becom

Whoops! Stupid phone and tired fingers.

It's becoming a nightmare as DH and I have starkly different approaches to this. Bedtime was relatively straightforward until I tried to stop DS falling to sleep whilst feeding. Now it's a battle from the second I walk towards the stairs when he has his jamas on. Part of me says if it ain't br

((cakebaby)). No. That's not CIO.

I am struggling here too.
3yo ds sleeps well now . I used NCSS for him after about a year and by two and a half he was "sleeping through". I found it great for stopping the night feeds after a year.

But 9 mo DD waking frequently. At least three times, but much of the time after 1 am is a blur tbh.
I think teething is the main culprit. But she is not napping well recently and that can't help.
I feel utterly shredded tbh. feel like a total failure, especially being irritable during the day.

I need to buy the book, I borrowed from library last time.
I do have the toddler one.

So, I'll be focussing on naps today (at least 2 for dd) and keeping a log tonight.

Great thread. Really good to read everyone's stories. Thank you.