No Cry Sleep Solution - anyone want to join in, or tips from your experiences with it?

[TurtlesMama]

My 9 mo dd is a bad sleeper. We had a brief lovely period of all night sleep between 3 & 4 mths and it has been downhill from there! She does self settle occasionally but otherwise its cuddles/rocking and she will only fall asleep with me or dh in the room. I refuse to try cc/CIO and having spent a miserable 10 days doing pupd from the baby whisperer (cue a lot of screaming from her for hours at night and a very miserable mama too) have decided to try the no cry sleep solution by Elizabeth Pantley. Briefly dabbled in it when she was tiny to help with naps, but this time I'm doing it properly, sleep logs, sleep plan and all

Is there anyone else out there also interested in giving it a go? It would be great to have a support thread going - all my RL baby friends allegedly have babies who sleep lol so a bit of help would make all the difference!

Thanks :-)

Oh FFS

...broke don't fix it, it'll all go tits up at 4 month regression anyway. I know I should try and stop feeding to sleep though.

cakebaby I'm not sure you need to worry about that with such a young baby. Maybe let yourself off for a bit.
What is your DH saying?

He took over last night after 90 mins the 1st time and 45 the next, epic fail the pantley way. He let ds cry whilst lying next to him, hand holding, shushing etc. 37 painful mins later ds was asleep & stayed there 3.5 hrs then woke every hour crying hysterically. DH in spare room with ear plugs & still there now so blissfully unaware as yet of my horrific night. I haven't recovered from the crying yet but ds is fine.

Oh cake you poor poor thing - that sounds truly horrible.
I know how you feel just about.
While we are all obsessing about self settling I have to say in your shoes I too would take a breather and reassess. I am obviously not at expert but I think their comes a point when you do need to go with what your DS needs right now. Doesn't even Pantleys book recommend having a couple of weeks of path of least resistance when required to recuperate?

For what it's worth and this may be extremely unhelpful I remembered yesterday I always fed my DD to sleep at night and she slept right through at around 12 weeks ... Maybe it isn't always a problem?
I don't know much though clearly and am constantly confused!

I really hope you get a hug from DH and some rest too.

Welcome Amanda but sorry you are having to join our weary ranks!

Better night again here 2+3+1.5+2
Still feel pretty exhausted though!
But DS is so much more settled for the better sleep.

How is everyone else getting on- those of you who are quiet if you are still reading am fascinated to know whether you are too tired to post or making progress and not needing the support any longer.

Hello all. I did NCSS with DS (who is now 4) and over several months (between ages of about 9 and 14 months) we did see some improvement. Gradual withdrawal was also helpful when he was a toddler and had phases of waking at night/feeling unsettled at bedtime. He now sleeps very well, no issues going to bed whatsoever (has been known to say "go away now, I need to go to sleep" ), although he remains an early riser.

However, I now have 9 month old DD who is about as horrendous at night as her brother was. Really, you'd think I had a clue second time around but sadly not. I'm trying some bits of NCSS again but doesn't seem to be doing much.

I'm actually too shattered to post anything else at the moment but thought joining might help my resolve in the middle of the night .

Thank you live and Amanda for your support. It's so tricky to know what to do for the best. I think I'll give the pantley method another go tonight as clearly ds WILL settle at some point, maybe I just need to toughen up and stop being so PFB about it all.

I don't think you are being at all PFB cake. Although I hate the term tbh.
At 9 or 10 weeks I would do what works best. And try a gradual withdrawal in a couple of weeks. Maybe just at certain times.
Be kind to yourself.

But then, what do I know? I've managed to raise the most rubbish sleepers
Ds is good now though.

Amanda your post did make me smile the irony isn't lost on me that we are all a bunch of exhausted mums of poor sleepers giving each other advice!

hello Kitty

And Cake I also don't think you are being PFB at all I find it incredibly stressful - we are programmed to want to keep our little bundles content!

Thank you. Although they don't come with a manual, seems every other bugger on the periphery of our lives has read it or at least has a strong opinion about how/what I'm doing. I hate PFB too, but it gets the point across !

I'd rather take advice from those currently attempting similar things, than those who did it a better way decades ago

In my quest for a miracle cure I just came across this website which has a good summary of the NCSS approach if anyone reading hasn't yet got the book.

www.mybabysleepguide.com/search/label/no-cry%20sleep%20solution

Thank you liveinthepresent

Hi all

Firstly cake & live have you tried the baby whisperer sleep forum? Brilliant for FAQ's and advice on how to do pupd/pat shush etc. It didn't work for us as dd is v spirited but I would definity recommend trying as it does work for a lot of people.

cake it sounds like what you're doing at the mo is closer to pat/shush and pupd than ncss maybe? It is definity not cc/CIO and there's info on babywhisperer which explains how its different (I worried about that too!) The advice on there is tailored to age and I'm pretty sure for really little lo's you are ok to pick up and cuddle when they get upset. Have a read anyway, I think it might really help you out. Try not to feel under pressure from others that ds must sleep a certain way - do what you need to keel him and you happy even if its not the 'supposed' way of doing it. Agree with live that a break from it would definity be a good idea. We have broken every sleep rule going and am knackered, but dd is very happy and settled during the day so it can't be doing her any harm!! My dh also has v different ideas on sleep and would happily do CIO/cc (which is why I am reading ncss and on here lol).

live glad you're feeling happier today, it can really get you down can't it . Am not sure re friends ds but will ask and let u know. I have a feeling he just got into a better pattern by himself, don't think they did much sleep training tbh. And yes still stuck on phase1 other than a couple of random self settles over last couple weeks. Thanks for link too.

Hi Amanda & kitty sorry to hear you're struggling too. My dd is 1m older and v similar - also suspect teeth are behind a lot of it as can see lots lurking. Can you remember which parts of ncss worked for ds? We are all going to be asking your advice lol as we can't get it to work yet!!

Agree it is all stressful and bleurgh and if one more person tells me their lo is a fab sleeper or that I should put dd to bed at 9/10pm so she sleeps thru I will scream!!!

Here's to a better night for all...ours was yuck last night, up from 2345-215 and again around 4 for 30mins. Not as bad as frequent wakings but being up for over 2hrs and having no idea if or when she will go back to sleep is horrid!!

cake I am with you about the unsolicited advice - even though I have been through it all before with my DD it still really really annoys me.
My pet hates are -
Do you think he is hungry / why,dont you give formula / baby rice?
And I met a colleague last week who started with the above and when I said it wasn't just about hunger and he would resettle if I cuddled him she looked at me like I was an idiot and said well if you cuddle him,what do you expect... I was so cross that I didn't find a way to tell her to keep her unwanted opinions to herself - my baby, my choice surely it's not a bad thing to cuddle your baby when he needs it ( even though I know I am not fostering best sleep habits!) grrrrrrrrrrr
End of rant - DS is down for first stint so am off to have a glass of wine and hopefully watch strictly

Good luck everyone!

Thank you turtles and everyone else, this thread is just about keeping me sane at the moment. Well, after last night's disaster of 40+ bottle removals and caving in, tonight ds went off to sleep after 6 removals. He's stirred a number of times with the usual hands in the mouth but has not woken so far. Small steps.....good luck everyone!

I have skimmed some of the thread now. I won't remember everything though, sorry!

Bloody hell AmandaClarke - are we the same person?

Cake - your baby is still very small and will change a lot over the next few months without you doing anything. Please give yourself a break, you'll drive yourself insane. There is an obsession with babies self settling at the moment, and I don't think my mum's generation even talked about it. I don't really think you know whether you have a 'sleeper' or not until well past 6 months. Definitely do not worry about what you do now affecting things when they are toddlers. So much change happens between now and then.

Thing with my DS got a bit better about 11-12 months but I don't know whether this would have happened anyway, regardless of what I did. Their sleep physiology changes around then.

This time around with DD I've had a co-sleeper cot. She went into a cot in her own room a few weeks ago but doesn't stay in it all night. I spent far too long with DS getting up out of bed. I always felt so dreadful, and I felt it was a waste of energy. I bring DD in to our room part way through the night. Eventually she'll do longer and longer stretches in her own room (I hope...). Right now she's been doing tons of developmental stuff, such as standing up in cot and separation anxiety. There is also lots of snot today and I think another tooth on the way so she's had calpol tonight. From the NCSS I've been doing:

• Pantley pull off
• try to make sure she's aware of where she is when I put her down for the night. This is a balance - if she's too awake she gets excited about wanting to stand up and grin at us.
• Alternative sleep cues - music/shushing/teddy.

I don't know whether it will make a difference but feels better than doing nothing.

Oh, and something I learned from both of mine. Bad nights are more likely to be because something is wrong with the baby (ill/teeth/separation anxiety), not with how you've been parenting them.

But like Liveinthepresent points out, I may not be the best person to be proffering advice on baby sleep....

Dd fed to sleep at 730. She woke for a feed (definitely hungry) at 1am. That was pretty good tbh.
She's fed (mainly to settle, I think) a few times since then. But as I brought her in to our bed at 1 I've lost track a bit. She's awake now.
I think I need to do the pantley pull off (why does that have to sound rude?) for the bedtime feed to reduce her dependency on feeding to sleep.

lots of similarities.

Oh.naps. I resolve to ensure dd harps 2 naps a day. It is hard with ds tbh. Dividing time isn't easy. I just need to be more organised.

Someone asked about our lovey - I've just remembered. Anyway it's a jelly cat bunny, think you get them in John Lewis. It has nice floppy ears for babies to hold onto.

Sorry it's taken so long to say!

Mornin all.....

Hi kitty I asked my parents whether I was a good sleeper or frequent waker, they knew nothing of self settling. Their answer was, 'well you were aslways asleep by the time we went to bed but you were the other end the house so we wouldn't have heard you anyway'. Dear god, it explains a lot! Its a bloody wonder i ever made it to adulthood.

Ds woke every 3 hrs for big feeds, which is good for us, resettled each time with no bottle in mouth. Let's see what happens tonight!

Just by way of update. We have had a cold, teething and lots of visitors so cue lots of cuddly co-sleeping to deal with unsettledness.

Before that we were getting 2/3 hr stints and maybe the odd 4 (clock watching out the window after midnight).

For those having a horrible time we had a stage of 45 min wake ups and co-slept/bf through it and did anything to encourage naps. It did get better!

I'm tempted to try pat/sssh after feeds to try progress to next stage. How long is a reasonable amount of time to try? I don't think LO will cry, but possibly just roll about in cot for ages not sleeping.

Once we've got over busy weekend etc i may try next week. Eek!

Hi all. How was sun night, cake, any better?

We are going forward and back. DD seems to have started self settling at bedtime again, although not every night. But through the night still waking. And erratic so unpredictable! May sleep for 3 hours solid after going to bed, or may wake part way through that period, may resettle for DH or may absolutely insist on feeding. One night she slept for 4 hours for the first time in ages between 10 and 2, then the next night woke every 2 hours. Am still cosleeping from halfway through the night but sometimes I have to start this at 11 but other nights we don't until 1...

I don't think the Pantley pull off makes a blind bit of difference to her.

The things that worked with ds: mainly the pantley pull off. Nd after 14 months I just stopped night feeds and cuddled him instead.
Mainly the book gaveme the confidence to not give in to pressure to do cc, and to concentrate on his naps.
Dd seems to nap too late.
So, about 11 ish, then 3-4. So now ds is sleeping soundly after his story, dd is tearing around the kitchen. Sh has no respect
I need to get her to nap earlier in the day. Am attempting pantley pull off, sort of very gradually, because in the small hours I think she is just nursing to settle. 1 am, I'd say she still needs thatfeedbutthe others are just to torture me

I never got DS to use a lovey. I tried, but he still uses my hair.