No Cry Sleep Solution - anyone want to join in, or tips from your experiences with it?

[TurtlesMama]

My 9 mo dd is a bad sleeper. We had a brief lovely period of all night sleep between 3 & 4 mths and it has been downhill from there! She does self settle occasionally but otherwise its cuddles/rocking and she will only fall asleep with me or dh in the room. I refuse to try cc/CIO and having spent a miserable 10 days doing pupd from the baby whisperer (cue a lot of screaming from her for hours at night and a very miserable mama too) have decided to try the no cry sleep solution by Elizabeth Pantley. Briefly dabbled in it when she was tiny to help with naps, but this time I'm doing it properly, sleep logs, sleep plan and all

Is there anyone else out there also interested in giving it a go? It would be great to have a support thread going - all my RL baby friends allegedly have babies who sleep lol so a bit of help would make all the difference!

Thanks :-)

still very erratic here. Have had some 4 hour blocks at the beginning of the night but with no predictability. Self settling at bedtime some nights but not others. Last night DD seemed to be latched on all night (still cosleeping from some time between 11 and 1). Am trying not to be despondent. No christmas nights out for me! :(

We seem to have been teething for ever so it's knackered our tiny progress.

The last week he is waking without fail after 30/40 min. Last night I stayed with him to try catch him waking and settle before he woke but didn't work. Took all of 2 mins to settle though, a quick pick up and rock then down and lots of ssssh /jiggling. He then settled himself an hour later. Two hours later was screaming until I fed him????

Could they first waking be due to overtiredness? He napped for 2 hrs yesterday, last one ended half 4 tried to get him to sleep about half six /quarter to seven and took ages! He's been like that all week at bedtime, fussy feeding and rolling about in cot etc.

We've only got a week until we're away for Christmas so I'm not expecting anything great to happen this year. In-laws have put up a bigger bed for us so now at least co-sleeping an option when we're away if (when) we need it.

Thank fuck for that, thought I'd gone and killed the thread! Like Liveinthe present I had fantasies of everyone else cracking it, getting tons of sleep and being off enjoying their full, happy and energetic lives, but realised everyone was probably just to knackered to post.

I had a bit of a 'moment' about 10 days ago and decided that things could not continue and I had to do something different. So for several nights I persisted with trying to settle DD back in her cot in her room without bf her if at all possible. I set up a little bed for myself on the floor of her room. I was generally getting 2-3 hours (when she'd be in a deeper sleep), then awake trying to resettle her for about 4 hours (when they are in lighter sleep), then 1 or 2 hours again in the early morning when I brought her into our room (some more deep sleep again). I actually felt like I was going to vomit through tiredness.

To cut a very long story short, my determination has waned as I have been progressively more sleep deprived. However, I think there has been slow improvement. She's bf less at night, will often accept a cuddle instead and shush/patting can settle her at times. She is more settled at the beginning of the night but still really struggles with the phase of lighter sleep in the middle. Emma, this is why they wake at this point I think. Its the transition to a different sleep phase. Personally, I'm a bit about the overtiredness thing. It seems to have become an explanation for every baby sleep issue going, and I'm not quite sure how you would evidence this. I definitely agree that its harder to get an extremely tired baby to nap, but I'm not totally convinced it should explain everything else. DD, for example, will be raring to go at 5am if she goes to bed at 7pm. If I keep her up a bit later she's ready for the day nearer 6am. Plus, I drove myself bonkers with DS, thinking his issues were all down to overtiredness when I don't think, with hindsight, that they were. He slept better once he was ready to drop daytime naps.

Liveinthepresent - glad to hear you're getting some better stretches of sleep. Sorry, I can't recall how old your baby is (too shattered to check thread now).

Someone linked this on another thread. Thought people here may also be interested.

Man this is tricky!

Friday he did 1.5, 4, then 2.5s until half 7.
Saturday he did 3, 6.5, then 2.5.
Sunday back to 1.5, 3,1s then 2s!! Although I think the teething is back.

We have put cot side back on and can get him in it drowsy (woo hoo).
He isn't feeding to sleep on wakings, he's having bit of a feed then a bum jiggle and sssh is sending him off.
He's self-settling on some wake ups.
January cot is going into own room. Feeling happier about it. We've gone to spare room last few nights to see if that stopped him waking when we go to bed - it worked.

So some progress, sort of.

Incidentally on the good days his naps were rubbish!

Hi Kitty my DS is just coming up for 6 months now.
thank you - that link is very interesting - several weeks ago I was totally convinced DS was waking because the sleep regression at 4 months had stolen his self settling skills and I had made matters worse by rocking him to sleep but now I think that whatever the problem was it wasn't that simple as he is going down pretty awake now and sleeps much longer stretches - and despite feeling like I should I haven't 'trained' him ! The challenge now is it is still all so random! Last few days naps have been rubbish and the early sleep in the evening unsettled - was up and down to him all evening - but then when I fed him at 11.30 pm he slept nearly 5 hours.
In fact Emma I would say our patterns are quite similar to yours - though he has done at least a 3 hours stretch for the last two weeks.
I agree as well about the naps/ overtired - his best ever stretch of 8h42mins was after a shocking day of overtiredness!
It is all so baffling especially when you are exhausted anyway!
Glad you feel a bit happier Emma

Good to hear there's some progress Emma, the 6.5 night sounds great, but maddening when its not consistent. Really hope the progress continues for you. DD has a cot in her own room now but if anything its much much worse (sorry, realise this may be unhelpful).

The link is good isn't it Live? If you click on his other blog entries they're also worth reading. No cure for non-sleeping babies in there though.... Really hoping your DS settles down soon.

DD is actually quite consistent currently, but not in a good way. She generally sleeps for up to 3 hours initially, and then wakes up and requires resettling every 1-2 hours after that. Every fucking night. She's 10 months now and its pretty much breaking me. She is going to sleep ok with some patting/shushing, sometimes settles on the first wake up with a shush pat and I am bf less at night. However, its very very hard to see this as progress. If i don't bf her I have to hold her until she calms down. There is a tooth coming through at the moment (8th incisor), but I don't think this explains everything. DH has been very good at getting her back to sleep when I start to lose the plot at 3am, and he always gets up early in the morning with her. I don't know how long I can do this for. I'm cacking myself about going back to work like this in Feb. Should probably go back to using the co-sleeper cot more, but worried this will undo everything (because there has been so much improvement ) and I'll end up bf her more again. Its very hard to think straight at the moment.

I looked at an old thread I posted on when DS was the same age. Very similar stuff. Looking at the dates and totally non-scientifically DD will start to sleep better early January .

Really hope you're all getting more sleep than me.

Hi

Am so sorry for not posting recently. Between the sleep/not and christmas stuff it's been a little mad! Great to see all your updates though.

So my main news is that after a week that included desperately trying to get her back down for the best part of 6hrs (with a tiny sleep artway thru) and a day that effectively started at 3am I decided enough was enough, and I couldn't be the mummy I wanted to be on this little sleep. I'd seen Andrea grace recommended on here a lot, and after having read the millpond book (didn't really like it, felt like too much emphasis on cc) I bought Andrea's - a little reluctantly as I have now read so much I wasn't sure what else to try. Well - it is amazing! Ncss just wasn't working, and I was dreading anything involving crying. But really, its been ok. We are trying gradual retreat and on night5. Night1 was hardest - 1.5hrs to go to sleep but v little crying, about 1.5hrs crying with me right next to her in middle of night, but since then not too bad. She has self settled completely since we started and last night did 11hrs with only 5min crying where she needed me, the rest she got herself back to sleep before I could get in there. We are still a long way from independent sleep as i still stay with her, but miles better than where we were. Am desperately hoping its going to last. Compared to even a fortnight ago the change is just amazing & I would thoroughly recommend Andrea's book to any of you struggling with ncss but still wanting something gentler than cc. It is like a different baby this week!!

live thanks for your kind words. Yes she is nearly 1 so we have been dealing with this on and off for the best part of 6mths now!! Yes that gradual withdrawal thread is fab and really helped us. Hope your good run is continuing. Fab news on the self settling. Some of it is developmental but a lot of it is also due to your efforts - do remember that!! It works in the end

emma yes have read that wakings soon after bed can be over tiredness (we had a horrid run of that every half hour or so) & apparently if they are not used to self settling they can also wake on the transition between sleep cycles and the 2 half's of a cycle as well. But like the others we have also found sometimes that v overtired = better sleep. Is v v confusing.

splinters hi & how are u getting on? No I don't think ncss really covers dropping feeds but there are some excellent tips in the Andrea grace book - she actually says that in most cases (unless something else wrong) night feeds are bad for them as digestion impairs their sleep. Totally didn't know that. She has Good tips on how to phase them out!

brug how r things? Teeth definitely worsened things for us last fortnight or so,its horrid!

kitty thanks so much for tips, really helpful. Hope your nights are improving. Sounds really tough but you are doing really well. Really hope things get easier for you soon. Have you tried Andrea grace book? I was equally desperate a couple of weeks ago til I started it & really can't praise enough. Might be worth a go? Also, in case it helps, Have now found that the way for my dd is to tell her to lie down by patting mattress and saying it, plus holding a toy there for her to cuddle. And moving hand quickly before she starts to chew it (damned teething!!) Then lots of praise when she does. Takes a while but much less angst than laying her down when she doesn't want to!

Really hope you all have a better night.

I will post properly later as am rushing out the door now - but just wanted to say wow turtles that is such fantastic news ! Really pleased you have found something you are comfortable with that works! Woo hoo more sleep in time for Christmas.

Brilliant news Turtles, great to hear things are improving. I've not heard of Andrea Grace before, but have looked her up online, and looked at some old threads in here. Interestingly, her ideas are pretty much exactly what I started trying a few weeks ago. The bf then book thing I did with DS and have been doing with DD for a while.

I think I've had much less success than you for a number of reasons; colds/cough, the slowest growing tooth EVER, and DH working away for a few nights. However, now the tooth seems to be through the gum we had a much better night last night. I was still up a lot, but DD didn't need me until about 1am. Took a while to settle but she did eventually and then again at 3am, fed her at 5am and she was up for the day at 6.20. This is a vast improvement, esp as I was able to settle her without picking her up. So I do see a tiny glimmer of hope how.

Better go as I have promised to make a gingerbread house with DS. Hope everyone is getting some sleep.

Hello all, hope you've had a good Christmas.

Just thought I'd do a quick update. We're still getting nowhere. We definitely have teeth. 3 have come through over the last couple of weeks and there is a troublesome 4th one that is obviously there and looking swollen but taking a while to come through. DS is still generally on every 3 hours and is being a nightmare to get to sleep in the evening. Still not doing anything to tackle it but once all the Christmas stuff is over DP and I will try to come up with a plan I think.

Hi everyone, I haven't been here for ages, ds has been seriously ill in hospital. Hes starting to get better now, I can tell becsuse its geting hard to get naps into him again so im sure I will be joining you again soon, I havent had time to read all the posts so I hope you are all having some success.

Helen sorry to hear about your wee one. Hope they' are on mend.

Brugs we are also teething but not coming through as quickly. Top front two are shining but not quite there.

As predicted Christmas and being away has exhausted wee one (and us). He's also had rotten cold and teething. So lots of co-sleeping to get through.

Away home tomorrow so will start again in earnest. We're still on for New Year of properly in cot and then own room.

Merry Christmas everyone. Hope Santa brought you sleep.

How is everyone doing? Helen so sorry to hear about your ds, is he ok? Home now? Sounds v scary.

We are doing ok, she has actually slept thru a few times now which is totally amazing and the disturbed nights are not anything like as bad as before. Would wholeheartedly recommend the Andrea grace book! Still takes quite a while to go to sleep and afternoon naps are a bit of a nightmare, but so much better on the whole than 2/3 weeks ago. So there is light at the end of the tunnel for us all, I seriously thought I was going to end up with a 3yo who still wouldn't sleep!

Kitty & Live - thanks! Kitty are things better now the tooth is thru? And brug how is the teething? Am dreading our next batch, is always awful. Think we are due a wonder week soon too, eeks.

Hope you all had lovely Christmases & getting more sleep.

Thanks emma and turtles, hes still in hospital but out of ICU hes doing really well but has a way to go, we have a good bedtime routine back now and nurses say he sleeps quite well overnight.
Good news turtles that she has slept through a few times.

Helen - sorry to hear you DS has been ill, really hope he's continuing to improve.

Brugs - teething is such shite. Has definitely been a major cause of disturbed nights for both of mine. Not saying this was ever the only issue, but just meant nothing could change until the teeth were through. DD now has all 8 incisors and I'm hoping there is some respite before the molars come through.

Turtles - great news! Hope you're sleeping too and not lying awake waiting for her to wake up. DD had a good night just before Xmas with the longest stretch she's ever done (about 6.5 hours) and I was WIDE AWAKE. Maddening. She hasn't done anything like it since, but on the whole is much more settled at the beginning of the night, and if she needs me it will be a quick shush/pat. So although she's still waking quite regularly, I'm doing much less when she does. She's trickier to settle from about 3am though. I'm generally not bf her until 4 or 5am now, when she does seem hungry. BTW thanks for the patting the mattress tip to get her to lie down again. Has worked quite a few times for us too.

Happy New Year everyone.

X post Helen, sorry to hear he's still in hospital. Must be very hard going for all of you. Best wishes for his ongoing recovery.

How is everyone getting on?

I need some help/reassurance?

So as predicted being away for week knackered progress we made. Pre Christmas - feed to drowsy and put down, starting to do 4-6 hr stretches with self-settling, dad could resettle on most wake ups.

Now, we've been home for a week and tried to get back into routine. But - its taking 2-3hrs to settle to sleep, having to feed to sleep (pull off method taking several attempts), wont settle for dad (screamed tonight when dad tried to settle him), longest stretch of sleep 2hrs.

Will it get better again soon? Is it just due to break in routine (that's what fecked it all up in first place - holiday at 4 months).

By day he's feeding well, Naps variable but almost 2hrs each day.

He's been a bit clingy though (I hate to say that about a 7 month old - of course they're clingy) but you know what I mean. Not ok to be left for a sec, wanting up all the time.

Is this also due to disruption of Christmas or start of separation anxiety maybe?

Any thoughts/experience would be great.

Plan is to go back to trying to put down awake each night, keep using pull off method when that doesn't work. Basically go back to what we were doing before christmas.

Hi all -glad to see life in this thread still! Especially now our OP has reached the holy grail of her DD STTN

helen so sorry to hear your LO was so ill. I can barely imagine how hard that has been - I hope you were able to enjoy Christmas with him on the mend.

Emma sorry you are suffering still - not sure I have any answers other than to say we are in a similar boat here after the holiday. It was all going so well but DS had a cold, then we went away and like you I am now struggling to settle, feeding to sleep aargh ! Depresses me just typing it. Worst of all I am now back at work and will have to cope with all the disruption that brings as well. I don't even feel like I have a plan anymore apart from constantly feeling like I am breaking all the rules!

Sorry I can't bring better news!

liveinthepresent it is comforting to know we're not only ones!

I've 2 months before back to work and need to try get night sleep sorted, attempt cot naps (ha ha ha) and try wean onto bottle for the day.

I suspect some challenging days ahead.

Oh Emmayour post made me smile - am with you all the way - I haven't been brave enough to tell the girls at the nursery that DS has never ever napped in his cot and still sleeps in a Moses basket at night and am secretly hoping they will help fix it!!
Not sure exactly how old your DS is but I had a NIGHTMARE getting DS to take a bottle for my KIT days - posted on here for advice. Anyway although it was very stressful we had a total breakthrough in the end so that's one worry out the way.
He may not sleep all day while I am at work but at least he won't starve

Joking aside he does seem to be getting a little bit more settled each night - 4.5 hours max stretch last night.

Good luck!

Emma - sorry to hear you're having a hard time. FWIW both of mine were particularly tricky around 7 months. Separation anxiety/teeth/wanting to practise sitting up. Your plan sounds a good one. With both of mine, I've found a number of times that I had to go back several stages due to one thing and another, but we got back to where we were eventually. Its bloody hard to be patient when you're knackered though.

I very much identify with the anxiety about going back to work and being exhausted. When I went back to work after DS I was really to admit he'd never napped in a cot, always pushchair. I did manage to get him into the cot for some naps just before I went back, but he was nearly 1 by then. Once he started with his CM, he wouldn't nap AT ALL for the first week or so. I was so stressed by it. He then started napping in the pushchair, and CM eventually managed to get him in a cot. Thankfully, CM wasn't remotely fazed by any of this!

DD is up and down here, but generally improved from before Xmas. Some longer stretches some nights, and on other nights she wakes more but only needs a quick shush/pat. However, she is sometimes very unsettled about 3am, and always very wakeful at about 5am. I can get her down for another hour with a bf, but it can be hard work. So better, and I don't feel quite so awful, but still tiring.

Hi Emma - it's the same here with DD (nearly 8m) and has been for a few weeks. All to pot, feeding to sleep, won't settle for anyone else, etc etc. A few teeth have popped through so maybe it's that combined with separation anxiety, which is properly kicking in. I've just given up for a while. :( am trying not to think about going back to work and how we'll all cope...

Hello all, thought I'd do a quick progress update (and contribute to the thread keeping going).

After the teething and general disruption over Christmas and New Year I have been a bit more focused over the past week. I don't think I'm strictly following the book and I never got round to do any logs.

I'm basically doing a vague combination of PUPD and gradual retreat along with trying to introduce positive sleep associations. I have been putting DS down awake but sleepy. The main problem I had initially was that he would then get up and start bouncing in his cot. When he did that I would pick him up, give a cuddle and slight rock to calm him and put him down again. Initially it was taking ages to finally get him to sleep and I was having to sit right by his cot and put him down many times and then rub his back when he was lying in the cot. I had a few times when it was well over an hour of doing this. I had times when it seemed he was asleep, as he'd been still deeply breathing with his eyes closed for around 5-10 minutes, but as soon as I moved away he'd be up again. Gradually it's got better. Over the past few days I've been sitting on a chair across the room where he can see me but I haven't been interacting until he gets up. He has also gone from pretty awake to asleep in around 15 minutes only getting up 2 or 3 times.

He's not sleeping through yet but he is back to going down in the evening around 7.30. He tends to briefly wake around 45 mins later but can generally be resettled with just a pat. He then sleeps until midnightish and has a feed and has been waking usually twice more before morning. I'm hoping this will get better as he gets better at self-settling in general. He has been having a longish waking period at around 5am when it takes quite a bit of effort to get him back to sleep. This morning it took a while but he did eventually settle himself. He is also settling the same way and quite quickly for naps now too, rather than the hour long battles I used to have.

Anyway, I'm happy with how things are going at the moment. DP is getting frustrated though and has been saying we should get a sleep consultant/night nanny to help us and do a few over nights and give us some better sleep. I don't like the idea of this so I'm hoping that the overnight wake ups start to reduce and he can see we are getting there ourselves anyway.

Hello all - thanks for another positive update Brugs
I am ecstatic it's the weekend after a very busy week starting work and leaving DS at nursery for the first time.
Am happy to report that the sleep is much more settled than the last time I posted - though I did have one shocker with wake ups about every 1.5 hours. Hope I dont jinx it again but we seem to have found a better nap routine - sort of dropping to 2 naps as long as he doesn't wake too early. Think this is maybe helping him to get into deeper sleep - last night he did 4.5, 5.5 then an extra hour when I thought he might be up for the day..
My only real issue now is the unpredictability - so it's hard to know whether to wait up until he stirs for a feed or whether I need to get an early night,ready for an early morning. But all in all this will be manageable if it lasts.
Interestingly last night went down pretty wide awake - whereas he mostly feeds to sleep pretty much so it may be that I need to persist with that.
Hope everyone else is ok.