The my baby won't nap sign here thread?

[Zimm]

Helllo all,

Until recently DD (6 months) would only nap in her pram, this worked ok-ish. Now even this seems to be failing, yesterday I paced for 1.5 hours to get her to take a 30 minute nap. NOTHING gets done during the day as I am constantly entertaining her. Her night sleep was fantastic (8pm-6am, 6.30am - 8.30am!) but all went wrong at sleep regression and we now have anywhere between 2 and 6 wakings.

I worry about the lack of naps affecting her and making her miserable.

So please sign here if you too have a nap refuser, maybe we can share ideas or just support each while our houses descend into a cloud of mess, phone call go unreturned and exhaustion from street-pacing kicks in!

Zimm

Hi all. Thinking of my routine I realise that DD isn't getting a clear nap/sleep routine. I also realise that if we leave the curtains open even a crack overnight she starts to wake up early and hourly from when it gets light. DH hates sleeping with them fully closed but he'll just need to deal with it until DD goes into her own room.

She's just down for a nap now... 30 second comfort suck on boob then swapped to dummy & she was asleep within 5 minutes when I transferred her to her cot. Still sleeping 30 mins on...

Morning all!

Good luck with the jabs geordiegirl and beela - are they the 6 month ones? My DS had 3 and I think thats why he's been unwell since. Still has a temp and didn't sleep well last night.

Went to bed at 7:30pm - woke at 9pm screaming. I put him in bed with me and he finally fell asleep at 11pm, woke at 1am, 3am, 6am.

Fed him at 6am and he's tucked up in bed with OH sleeping again. I wonder if he's sleeping too much during the day. He can probably sleep for 3 hours in one nap if I let him.
I'm going to try a different approach today, try and make his naps 1.5 hours rather then let him wake when he's ready. Am I mad? Should I just leave it as it is and just except that he wakes up at night still?!!

SilverSky hope you had a good night!

beijingaling - DS room is completely blacked out!! I swear it makes a difference, if I leave the night light on he wakes!!

He's waking up... must go!!

Morning! Well sleep training slightly disrupted by a sickness bug on Wednesday morning! BFing with sickness is not fun. Through the other side though and thank god for my mum being close by to take care of DD. Kind of helped the naps with DS as he took his naps with me. Feel like we're making definate progress.
Put him down for his morning nap an hour an a half after waking but he only did 20 mins. Refused to go back off. Just tried again now and after 10 minutes of shushing he went off - fingers crossed for a long lunchtime nap.....!

Hi all,

Imisssleep - I wouldn't tamper personally!

Just spent 45 misn getting DD down, she cried and cried while I shush-pat-ed so in the end rocked her to sleep.

Feel like a horrible mummy now - but she has to learn right? Otherwise she'll go to nursery unable to nap - which will mean a seriously overtired baby!

Zimm :-( :-( :-(

Zimm - you are not a horrible mummy!

You are right, she does need to learn to nap and she was probably crying because she was tired and didn't know how to make it better - you are teaching her that. I bet she felt better when she woke up?

beela x

Learning how to nap is definitely the key.

Hi all, long time no write but we had a major crisis last week which resulted in my dh being in hospital for a few days and upon his return home it meant there had to be relative peace and quiet in the house - with a non napping baby!!

So I was quickly forced to sort out dd's rubbish napping. Now a week later I can put her in her cot wide awake and walk out of the door. She might grizzle for a bit but she has learnt how to go to sleep by herself which I think is key is enabling her to self settle if she wakes up again. We're still working on length of naps, now up to an hour, and customising our plan, but compared to the last 4 weeks of hit and miss naps, feeding to sleep and being stuck on the sofa, or tramping the streets for over an hour just to get 30 minute nap, we are all so much happier

I had managed to get dd to sleep in her cot one morning having used all the usual props - holding arms and shushing - but she kept waking up dot on 30 mins, to the second. So each time I held her arms, shushed her and she went back to sleep. This lasted for 1.5 hrs. I realised that during the day she couldn't get herself back to sleep and needed me to do it for her.

I'd just started to read yet another book about getting your baby to sleep, this time the sleepeasy solution (see also www.sleepyplanet.com) which echoed exactly what I had just been doing. Getting dd to sleep by any means possible but not helping her learn herself

I figured that if she's a bright as everyone keeps telling me a non-napping baby is then she'll learn quickly, and she had to for dh's sake

And she has learnt. She's much calmer from all the extra sleep and will bow drop off when she's tired not fight it all day long

There were tears, but only tears of protest from her, they werent distressed cries at all. I could never leave my baby to cry if she's really upset, but you can easily tell the difference between a grumpy grizzle and full on howl

There's still a way to go but things are so much better now, I've even managed to sit in the sunshine in the garden whilst she snoozed away, bliss

It may not work for everyone, or indeed anyone else, but had to share it as this thread has kept me trying when all I wanted to do was give up and live with three 30 min power naps a day!

Wow, worst night ever since we got out of the hospital. After the episode in the evening, I decided to try being consistent with not feeding to sleep. Ds re-settled in 30 secs with a bit of firm cuddle and humming after 11 pm feed. The 2:30 feed was something else. He ate gulping nicely for 45 minutes. And then was up until 5:30 am. Just would not go to sleep without boob. Tried everything - humming, shusshing, a bit of patting, cuddling, laying-on-hands, the blasted hairdryer, walking and rocking, all to no avail. He was winging most of the time (thankfully, not much real crying). He also did about a million yawns, but his eyes stayed wide open, looking at something incredibly fascinating in the darkness. I could not believe he was up for 3 hours!!! Eventually he was getting massively fed up and I was beyond massively fed up and so decided to try the dummmy. Again. He did not take it before, but now took a few sucks and fell asleep.

And then he was up at 6:30, bright and smiling at me like nothing happened. Keeps smiling and gurgling now too, an hour later. But will try sticking him back into bed. I need some kip!

I am a bit desperate actually. What the hell am I doing wrong? Am I really destined for a strict routine where I will not be able to get out of the house?

Ooops, ladies, I posted on the wrong thread. Sleep deprivation is starting to show. However, perhaps I might as well be joining your thread as we seem to have similar issues, only your babies are older (mine is 8 weeks).

toomuchtooyoung - tell me exactly what you did! My ds is 7 months and a terrible napper. I've been trying a version of "shush/pat" over the last week and a half. Things got off to a good start, but have deteriorated rapidly. I actually think me being in the room with ds is a distraction to him. SO I've been trying a mild version of controlled crying over the last few days, sometimes with success, sometimes not. I'm happy to leave ds, as you are, to grizzle or grumpy cry, but can't take it if he gets even remotely distressed. PLEASE, walk me through step by step what you did.

PatronSaintOfDucks

You're not doing anything wrong, I know it can be stressful. I remember DS being awake alot at 8 weeks, I would sit in bed nearly in tears from lack of sleep saying to OH "When will he sleep?!"
I didn't even try to get a routine until he was about 4 months, spent a lot of days in my pjs napping when he did!! Nap when he naps. And remember, you're not the only one with a baby that is a night owl!!

Better night last night, bed at 8pm, feed at 2:30am in bed with us at 6am for 30 mins.
Only napped for 20 mins at 8am, he's back napping now and has been since 9:30am.
I have the opposite problem to most of you - he will not nap/sleep in his pram.

I took him for lunch yesterday with OH, we left at 12:30, sat down to eat at 1. He was obviously tired but no nap. Went into town to buy a dress and still no nap. By the time I got home at 4pm he was very tired. We both had a nap from about 16:15-17:30. He wanted more but I couldn't have him up till 11pm again!!!

zimm you are FAR from a horrible mummy!! She needs to nap. And you need your rest.

sigh another 45 minutes to get to sleep this morning - had to feed her to calm her down in the end :-(
Still feel horrible - the looks she gives me! She's such a happy thing most of the time...

conker - sorry I didn't reply. Don't have much time to type but I'd really recommend looking at the website if you can. I havn't even had a chance to look at it yet myself but it refers to it throughout the book. There are lots of references to the amount of sleep and nap time a baby should be having according to age, and the optimum times to be putting them down for a nap from the last waking. The basic method is to allow your baby to learn how to fall asleep themselves, and for this you have to leave the room, and return at 5, 10, 20 min I intervals. I made up song to sing as I was putting her into the cot and for the times I needed to return. It really didn't take long for her to learn and get herself off to sleep

We're by no means having the optimum number of hours napping yet, but are getting there

Sorry I can't be much more help but caring for a 6 month old and looking after a very poorly 41 year old dh and I'm pooped!

Good luck though, and just stick with it, it may not be an immediate change but when it does happen It's such a relief

IMissSleep - thanks a lot! I have embarked on sleep training my ds. For now, I am just trying to accomplish two things - wean him off feeding to sleep (he is getting increasingly windy and uses me as a dummy and minds when it's gone) and convince him to nap during the day. I know that little babies are unpredictable in their sleep patterns, and I would leave my ds alone to his own devices and schedules if he only actually napped. He used to nap on my lap after falling asleep during a feed, but now he does not do even that. He would fall asleep for 2 minutes and then wake up, looking for the nipple. So on one hand I feel that I am doing something unnatural by trying to manage his sleep, but on the other he is miserable when he does not nap and he just does not. I am now using any tools available besides boob and rocking (white noise, humming, cuddling, etc). I will definitely have to wean him off white noise in the future. Good luck to you all.

Well I got a 5am wake up today zzzzz

He went to bed at 6:45pm, was very tired. Woke at 8:30pm. Put him in bed with me. We both fell asleep and woke at 2:30am - OH was asleep on sofa!! Fed and went back to sleep in his own bed and woke at 5am. He has started trusting in his sleep again, 7 month sleep regression? He's napping in his bed now.
On the plus side, being up at 5am means that I can get the laundry, cleaning etc done and enjoy the day!
I have a night out tonight and OH is on nights and tomorrow morning, I need a lazy morning in bed! Hope everyone had a good night :)

toomuchtooyoung - thank you for taking the time to respond. I'll have a look at the website. Sorry your dh is so poorly. Hope he is better soon and you're able to get some rest.

PatronSaintOfDucks - you are not being unnatural, he just needs to learn to nap and you are the one that has to teach him! All of the books etc would have you believe that a small baby just sleeps when it is tired, and that is just not true! Took me a while to figure that out though, in my naivety. In my experience they need help to get into those habits once the utter exhaustion of being a newborn has worn off and they are a bit more alert. I think 8 weeks is a good time to start, as looking back that is about the time it all started to go wrong here.

Zimm - oh poor you. Have you tried putting her down a bit earlier? I have found that DS goes to sleep most quickly if I catch him before he even starts yawning (when everyone else is telling me that he obviously isn't tired).

We had a TERRIBLE night last night, he didn't sleep for longer than 2.5 hours in a row. This is after 3 nights of sleeping all the way through - however, he did miss his afternoon nap yesterday and just had a 10 min catnap on me, so I am convinced that is the reason. DP not so sure. Either way, I am going to make sure he gets lots of naps in today (1st one currently underway!).

Hope everyone else has a good weekend :)

toomuchtooyoung - hope your DH is on the mend

Just checking in...after having a multitude of sleep problems at the start of this thread, now naps still going really well, and sleeping through pretty much for nearly 3 weeks, and last night had the holy grail 12 hours = yay! I really feel like a different person and she is happier too.

About baby crying when doing the shushpat, this happened to me too and dd is a particularly smile-y baby so I felt terrible too and would often end up tearful myself thinking I was making her cry. Anyway it got a lot better as time went on.

Whilst doing the sleep training I kept telling myself after eating, sufficient sleep is the next priority for baby, and breaking the feed to sleep thing was what was generating the tears because she was having to do things differently and not understanding why, rather than being desperately distressed. Also if I gave in I realised it would confuse her even more which would not be fair, so it helped me keep persisting with what I'd set out to do for each sleep. I don't know if that helps anyone who is struggling with the same thing...

As I said crying at bedtime (me with her, I don't leave her unless it is whingey crying) did improve, but she still has to have a bit of a shout before sleeps most times, I think it is her way of doing things. Even in the car before she's about to drop off she will cry a bit.

Additionally in case it helps anyone, because I tried so many different things with naps trying to get it right for her, I do wake her from two of her naps nearly every day for both, the morning and midday one, this because it seems to help her sleep through the night, which is a recent and rather major breakthrough for us so I'm persisting. I wake her at 10am (between 1 and 1.5 hrs) for the first nap and 2pm (between 1.5 and 2 hrs) for the second. Then at some point late pm she will usually have a catnap and then bed is approx 2 hours after this around 7am. I have a bit of flexibility with all this my aim being for her to sleep 15 hours out of 24, so if the night has been disturbed, I'm ready to put her down earlier for naps so she catches up a bit but not too much that she is not tired at bedtime.

Sedgiebaby how old is your baby?

toomanycooks she will be 6 months next week. I started trying to improve things at 18 wks around the time this thread started, when sleep was going from bad to worse somehow.

beela, thanks for the encouragement! I also know what you mean about "but he is not tired!" thing.

toomuchtooyoung - congrats on the achievement!

Sedgiebaby that's my exact problem.

I've realized that DD wants to nap & sleep and can do this if I provide the right environment. The problem is the only right environment for her, at the moment, is to feed. Sometimes after a few minutes comfort sucking shell swap to a dummy to doze off but she won't at all just sleep without the comfort suck. The obvious secondary problem is she wants to be held to sleep.

From what I've read this is her major sleep cue now so I need a new routine for sleep cues & for her to learn to sleep without me there.

How do I stop this ladies? Any ideas? DD is 11w.

beijingaling its my first baby so I'm no expert but I can tell you what I did....

I stopped dead feeding to sleep, if she fell asleep whilst feeding I sat her up and read her a story even if just one or two pages. Then I did the baby whisperer 4 S's thing which is spoken about on this thread. I shushpat her for every sleep until calm and put her to bed continuing to shushpat her, when she got upset I would pick her up and carry on until she was breathing calmly quiet and eyes closing. Trying not to let her fall completely asleep on my shoulder.

It is really difficult, because you are changing what they (love) to do, and it is nice and sweet to fall asleep like that, but my problem was that as time went on every time she stirred she didn't know how to go back to sleep, I had a few nights where it was hourly or even every 20 mins!!! Then feeding to sleep got harder in that it took longer and longer.

I reckon it took me a month to resolve all the sleeping problems (self settling/short naps/moving to cot/multiple night wakings/taking a long time to settle at night etc). For two weeks at least I did not go out the house. I doubt I could do this if I had more children. But I felt it was my fault in that, she self settled early on then when she hit colds/growth spurts I got in this habit and she only knew how to settle this way.

Although it was very difficult and a long process, and had me in tears at times, my mum kept telling me that to ignore it wasn't the answer because she needed her sleep and it would only get more difficult as she got older and could sit up/stand up and protest about it all! The other option is cry it out or CC and to me, I just feel quite strongly and instinctively that it is cruel and tbh lazy parenting.

Keep going, whatever you do, do it consistently, stick to it (dont confuse her by switching techniques about) and try to do it for all sleeps.

Its worth it, I got 8 hours of sleep last night!!!! Also just now I put her down for her nap singing away and she put herself to sleep after about 10 minutes, I will have to wake her from this nap what with the hour change etc. I feel like a new person, I'm getting on top of my housework and more importantly she looks great and well rested and is not so grumpy!!

Finally I can only rec that you read all of this thread and get the 'solve all your problems' baby whisperer book if you need more points of reference. HTH

Beijing just thinking as your baby is so young she should respond more quickly, and quite well if you chose to do the shushpat thing. Also I wish I had tried a slumberbear, I learned about them just recently. Have you tried white noise/womb noise? From what I've read until 3 or 4 months babies really like it

Sedgiebaby - your name came up also on another thread I posted this on. Here's the message I posted; be glad of your feedback/opinion. I really don't think it's hunger (when he did want feeding in night before, he'd cry unless I got bottle to him quick enough!) but equally don't want to deny him anything.

Thanks for reading
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Any advice/support for me?! I have a gorgeous 4 month old DS. I did a mixture of Shush-pat/Tizzie Hall advice to sort his daytime sleeps and after 10 days of mixed results, he is really good in the day now.

Nights have never been bad: he goes down for 7pm every night, grizzles, gets with the programme pretty quicky. Dreamfeed 10.30. Then he starts to stir, mostly in his sleep, but not always, around 3-4am. I really don't think he's hungry as he doesn't cry, just make the usual resettling between cycles fuss. So I shush pat. Last night only took a few minutes.

BUT he's then waking again around 5. Most mornings. This is the time of morning I find hardest to settle him. This morning, for example, he whined and grizzled for ages. DH and I took turns shush patting, but no progress. DH changed his nappy. Put him back. Nada. 6.30 rolled around and we were all wide awake. I fed him at 6.50, when usually we'd have a 7am feed.

DH thinks we should feed him then, around 5 when he wakes. I still maintain he's not hungry - but I know feeding him would mean more sleep for all of us.

Am I doing the wrong thing trying to resettle him? Should I feed him? I feel like a bad mother. I don't want to deprive him but neither do I want to set him up thinking if he protests for long enough he'll get fed.