The my baby won't nap sign here thread?

[Zimm]

Helllo all,

Until recently DD (6 months) would only nap in her pram, this worked ok-ish. Now even this seems to be failing, yesterday I paced for 1.5 hours to get her to take a 30 minute nap. NOTHING gets done during the day as I am constantly entertaining her. Her night sleep was fantastic (8pm-6am, 6.30am - 8.30am!) but all went wrong at sleep regression and we now have anywhere between 2 and 6 wakings.

I worry about the lack of naps affecting her and making her miserable.

So please sign here if you too have a nap refuser, maybe we can share ideas or just support each while our houses descend into a cloud of mess, phone call go unreturned and exhaustion from street-pacing kicks in!

Zimm

Signing in dd2 will nap for 1-2 hours in the morning, but only in her hammock and if I catch her in the 'window'. If for some reason she doesn't get that nap (especially if I have things planned in the morning so not at home) I spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep. It is 11.30 and she has slept for about an hour since 9.30am, and only on me at the breast. She is just dropping off now. I have barely had a minute to myself and poor dd1 has had a shit day :(

Good post vix, but what exactly do you mean when you say you settle your LO down? Is your basic point don't let them get over tired? How long between naps for your LO?

thanks Vix but a few questions...
you say you don't like CIO, and neither do I, but how do you go from co-sleeping to just putting dc in cot, I assume still awake, for a nap without tears?.anytime I.have tried dd kicks about for a while and then starts screaming.
does it have to be 6pm-7am? will 8pm-9am work or is 6-7 a magic number?
I know you only just started this but did your friend say what happens when you go out/have things to do that clash with nap times?

Hmmmm,
If you think leaving to cry would work, or don't understand what it means to have to entertain a tired baby all day, then you don't have a non-napping baby.

(You have to teach a non-napping baby how to get to sleep. I don't believe that teaching them that their cries will go unanswered would achieve this)

Not annoyed at all, vix, I genuinely find it interesting to read about things that may work re. napping.

In my own case I suspect some firmer routines would've helped early on but would be near impossible to put into place now. And actually it's not too bad at the moment because he does nap, even if only in pram/on breast - at one stage he wasn't doing that either!

I just find it vaguely amusing (in a desperate, why me! kind of way) when someone whose baby has always napped/slept well tells me how to magically get babies to nap, as if I'm doing it all wrong, when clearly they've had a baby who's been happy to sleep since the beginning. Personally I am far more interested in people (like you vix), who once had trouble but have somehow managed to turn it around.

Part of me is hoping that nursery will help with getting my son to nap independently. He does like to comfort suck (yet hates dummies) and so I feel that my breastfeeding has in a small way contributed to his lack of napping. He might find it easier around people who don't smell of milk!

Love your post estya :)

Hi, the only rules for my little one is just to aim for no more than 2 hours between napping and to have a 6-6.30 bed time.

Until now he would have screamed his head off the second he was put in the cot, but as long as he goes down before it's too late (like I say - my particular problem here was terrible over-tiredness) then he will settle and hasn't cried once yet.

Someone asked how exactly I settle him? I lay him down, use a dummy and (depending how close to sleep he is) I do the following:

Play a very gentle and whispery game with a teddy
Read a book
(but normally he seems ready for me to just move straight on to..)
Stroke from crown down to the end of his nose gently and slowly over and over whilst slowly saying my keywords for sleep (I just use sssshhhh sleepytime)
To begin with on Thursday it was taking up to 20 mins to settle for naps, and 40 for bed, yesterday it was less than 3 mins for all sleeps!!! It feels like the more sleep he gets, the more he wants. If he's really fighting sleep I do swaddle him, he is an arm-flailer and it really calms him - again not for everyone esp older babies.

Dh uses different techniques to calm, he often cuddles or walks around room for a bit to get him to sleep and puts him in his coy asleep. Works for him, the stroking ssshing thing was just instinctive for me, I guess everyone has they're own ways.

If someone had told me on wednesday that I would be writing this about my baby so soon I probably would have laughed manically and/or strangled them, I certainly would not have believed it. I thought we'd co-sleep for years!!! Instead, I am so confident in his sleep that his cot us now in the nursery (with mattress on floor for me and dh if we need it ). I'm typing this on iPhone during night feed - sorry for any typos)

Anyway, hope that answers questions that people asked me. Like I say, I know a) my schedule is nothing new or exciting and b) it sounds implausible that it worked so well so quickly but if you have the smallest feeling that your LO is overtired I would thoroughly recommend trying something similar in terms of early bed time and no more than 2 hours between naps. As he catches up on sleep debt the naps should lengthen so eventually they will naturally cut down to 3 and the last one will just disappear.

Anyway I hope that answers the q's people asked me.

Chillchill I missed a question. Re going out etc.

Tbh I was so desperate, and am now so grateful, that my life's focus for the foreseeable future is just to get him totally sorted with sleep. For past 6 months we've not gone out in the evening due to constant need for feeding and him not being able to settle unless in bed or on me downstairs.

Now I can see a point v soon that we'd be able to get him settled at 6, go out at 6.30 and ( if we wanted to) stay out until 10ish when I do dreamfeed) ds will not take a bottle of any kind ( have tried zillions of teats) so until he drops dreamfeed (friend suggests around 8 months) I have to be physically here.

In terms of day time it is a huge shift for me. At the moment I'm having to plan everything around nap times and so far this has just meant being less spontaneous and sometimes driving the long way to the supermarket/leaving early for play sessions to give him time to nap. Like I say only started this on Thursday so have yet to get used to it/bored of it but so far it's been easy. If I had another child of a different age I think it would be extremely difficult - although my friend manages somehow. It will mean saying no to certain activities if they clash, which will be a shame, but again benefits outweigh the downsides for me. It's half term next week so nothing on in terms of classes which is lucky as my impulsiveness and general lack of being-able-to-say-no-to-fun-stuff won't be tested!!

For me though, any inconvenience is worth it just to get mire than 1 hour uninterrupted sleep at night!!! Just had 4 and I feel like a new woman lol

so it seems like the key, similar to what Fumbeina said, is to keep the space between naps to 1.5 hours and to start the nap time ritual whether they're sleepy or not. all makes sense, gonna give its go today. wish me luck!
Vix- I assume if you need or want to go out you stick to nap times but have them in the pram?

Great to see so many responses I feel virtually supported already! I am def going to try the early nap after waking approach - sometimes DD nods off during her 9am BF and I let her nap on me, so making this a formal nap sounds like a great idea! I'M never going to leave her to cry - for me the test is - would I do this with an adult? E.g. if OH could not sleep and was crying would I leave him? Even if I thought he was 'just a bit overtired and wanting attention' errrr NO! So why do it with a baby? Vic 206 - thanks so much for your detailed responses - hugely helpful. We are also going to try early bedtime tonight!

fortunate my DS wouldn't go to sleep to start with- was awful! He only ever fell asleep on the boob! Wouldn't take a dummy, his better sleeping coincided with learning to suck his thumb, as he really needed the comfort.

Chillchill yes if I go out I make sure it's 15 mins before nap time is due and either walk with pram or drive in car. But like I say, it often means going the long way in the car or pram to ensure he has enough time to sleep!!

Glad to have helped a bit and not bored you to tears! It's got to be worth a try, let us know how you get on with the tweaks you're making to the naps

Zimm, I agree you should not be leaving your baby to cry. If a baby has only ever fallen asleep on boob or bottle or whatever, and then you stick them in a room alone they won't sleep- just scream! They have to learn that it's ok to fall asleep in a cot, and feel safe there. That could take some time and patience, and possibly cramp in your arm as you sit next to the cot stroking them through the bars! I think the key is to get them in their cot before they are asleep fully though, otherwise they are still learning to fall asleep on you.

ellengirl - it's weird because my DS can go to sleep - he's very good at night, and he can settle himself too, but it's just very hard to get him chilled out in the daytime. I may well try incorporating some of vix's tricks - though I have done a lot of it before without success. Don't want to sound too defensive, but I do think while a lot of baby's sleeping behaviours can be improved, you do get some that are trickier than others (now I just sound defensive again!)

vix I read your post about routine with interest. This is similar to what I am trying and too, I am seeing results. I have stopped cold turkey feeding,rocking,walking,carseating to sleep - so it was hard for dd to understand at first. I'm using a shush pat to soothe and trying to do so in the cot (just went into her cot which also went down like a ton of) and picking up only if really getting upset and putting down as soon as she is calm (not allowing her to go to sleep on me) and I know it is working...

She has only napped for 40 mins for about 6 wks (she's 20 wks) I just heard her at forty minutes whinge for 5 seconds and put herself back to sleep!! She has now slept for 1 hr 40 - this does not happen. Last night she went from 8pm to 6.30 and only got up for a feed at 1am (she had a dirty nappy this morning, but went until 7am yesterday) one week ago she was going periods waking every hour or even 20 mins - that is when I decided enough was enough.

Anyway I think you (and me hopefully) are onto something. I just need to find the courage for an early early bedtime.

1st nap done and success! well, kinda. she woke early and was already showing tired signs after an hour of being awake so off to cot we went. swaddled her and tried to put her down but she screamed. picked her up and rocked her to sleep still screaming, took about 8 minutes. put her down. she woke 20 minutes later so picked her up and rocked her again. she cried but only took a few minutes to get her back to sleep and she did so for another half hour. I cleaned out my closet! a happy and hungry girl woke up. next nap in an hour-ish, hope this one involves less screaming.

I just want to add this has been really hard and has meant me staying home for all sleeps and I've been exhausted to tears at times trying to stick with my 'plan' but I think consistency is key if you are trying to change baby's habits (re getting to sleep, self soothing) or it is unfair and will confuse then even more. I'm giving myself 2 wks and will review where it is going.

Thanks Fumblina - I will check out that website. Also thanks Vix for the info on what has worked for you - have just put DD up for a potential nap in her cot. She is looking a bit confused at the moment!!!

Someone said to me the other day, remember everything is just a phase, which I know I have to try and remember but it's hard!

chillichill keep going and expect it not to work at times but yes, this is what I saw using the same approach. I've stopped diving in her room if I hear whinging (not sobbing) more protest crying, and she is getting the message that it.is.not.time.to.get.up.yet. And going back to sleep ( yay's) I just painted my nails - but yeah closet needs my attention.

sedgie- thanks, I hope it works. will give baby groups a miss this week to focus on naps. I want to work on self soothing too but going to try and get regular nap times in place first so that she has sleep routines day and night and knows when its time to go to bed, then we will work on self soothing. I feel like this approach may be easier or I might just be making it twice as hard.

Hmm, I don't want to admit I could be wrong about something...

But I did put DS down for a nap a bit earlier than I would normally try and he is being suspiciously quiet...

Ah no, he is now coughing and banging his feet. But he was quiet for about ten mins and I suspect he might've slept if it wasn't for the fact he has a cold at the moment.

Some great ideas on here, and it's fab to have the moral support - thank you Zimm for starting this thread!

It's just god to know that it's not just me - all friends in RL with similar age babies seem to look at them and say 'ooh x, you look a bit tired' and lie them down in their pram / cot and they are fast asleep within seconds!

DS goes to sleep so well at bedtime in his cot, so I know he can do it, but just looks confused if I try it in the daytime. Feel as though it is my fault that he is not napping well as I have failed to instil good habits. Still, it's never too late and this week will be all about the naps, even if that means not doing other things.

Update here - sent Oh out with DD at 10am for a nap (normally we wait til about 11.30) and she slept an hour in the buggy! I will now try and get her into her cot in two hours for next nap!!!

I go to several baby groups and of all the mums I know, I have seen nearly all the babies fall asleep on them when tired, in most of the sessions at some point. Mine never does unless past exhaustion and then he will demand a feed and fall asleep that way!

Update from me - DD slept for two hours the first time I think in 6-8wks. And 1hr 30 later yawned so, wind down and in bed 15 mins after that. I put her down awake said my phrase in her ear kissing her (shhh, go sleepy) left the room with her gurgling - she then decided to shriek in a slightly cross way for 5 mins (I thought it was going to escalate and require my presence) and now - silence.

I've been working on this self setting thing for two wks in stages...its been more than a few days (a la vix) but I am dead pleased all the same.