Stuck in a never ending sleep regression

[PDog]

I am beyond exhausted. DD is coming up to 8.5mo and this has been going on for 2 months.

It seems to alternate between horrendous nights or horrendous days with horrendous bedtimes. She just can't switch off - I can't take my eyes off her for a second because she is not happy unless she rolling/grabbing something/putting something in her mouth.

When she does sleep, I have to feed her to sleep but as soon as I try to get her in her cot she wakes up and starts rolling.

She has only had 30 mins sleep all day today and gets more and more hyper. It then takes between 1-3 hours to get her to bed and she will be up to 2-3 times and ready to go by 6am (despite still been shattered).

Anyone offer any advice?

Or anyone in the same boat who wants to moan share experiences.

Thanks for the vote of confidence AD!

Well, last night wasn't bad either. I fed her twice (still adjusting the feeds to see what works best), although I think two was unnecessary, I fed her at midnight, then again at about 04.30 (first time she unlatched herself and went down, the second time I unlatched her but she allowed herself to be put down with no fuss each time). But she wasn't very hungry at breakfast time, so I'm going to try to keep it to one if possible.

DD resettled herself the other times she woke up (about three times I think) and did it pretty quickly without too much complaining.

As a result, both she and me got better sleep - reflected in the fact that she decided she would wake for the day at 06.15. At that point, I brought her in bed beside me (didn't feed her) to see if I could at least keep her quietish for a bit, but gave up after half an hour and got up. Because we're an hour ahead here (I'm in Spain) it's still very dark at that time....

AD, she does fall asleep on the boob at bedtime, so I've taken to feeding her sitting up on the end of our bed, instead of beside her sleep zone. I switch her from breast to breast to try and encourage her to keep feeding. When she's not actively suckling anymore, I detach her and carry her to her bed and put her down. Any of those three is guaranteed to wake her up again! Then the protesting starts.

Yes, I've realised that if left to herself, DD is a tension releaser - if I or DH go in too much we wind her up again, so I keep my returns to a minimum, don't pick her up, just maybe pat her briefly and say "ssh". It does feel a bit like CC, PDog, but I've avoided that stress so far because of the tendency for DD to release tension as outlined above. I can hear her getting more intermittent and relaxing, every time I'm poised to go in, she calms down.

Don't blame you for turning the monitor off, either crikey! We've not got DD a cot which we will initially put beside our bed until she's used to it then work on getting her into her own room. Given that her every fidget tends to disturb me unnecessarily, I figure I need a situation where I'm only alerted by the louder noises demanding my attention - so I can understand where you're coming from!!

As for naps, I'm still having to feed to sleep and resettle if there's any hope of a longer one. I keep trying to put DD down sans feed and leave her a little to see if she will self-settle, but now (thanks to AD's advice) I'm not pushing it because I suspect it wouldn't achieve much.

Good luck to all for today/tonight!

IC

In theory I suppose it should be possible to feed before they're getting sleepy and then put them down/settle by (for example) rocking when they are getting drowsy, but that seems to involve amazingly good timing to me!

Nap chaos here due to visiting PILs but never mind. DS doesn't travel well.

A very quick resettle after the first awakening though, so I'm hoping tonight will not be too bad.

Hello! Just wanted to say I am so glad I found this thread, you have all put up so much useful info. DD is 10.5 months, bedtimes are a disaster and I still feed her at night and everyone I know has been really getting at me about it and going on and on about how I should be leaving her to cry and I REALLY don't want to! So its really nice tofind other people in the same boat and trying the same things! don;t feel so alone with it now...thank you!

Hope you all had good nights sleep tonight

Welcome, pickles, it always feels better in company, doesn't it? :)

Hi picklesrule (is it just coincidence or are there quite a few familiar names from the blw thread here?!)

Thought I'd post this article from kelly mom. It's quite reassuring about night wakings and how this is normal - it's just our (and other people's expectations )that aren't so realistic.

Quick nap update from me- went down at 9am, not a protest in sight. He slept for over an hour and then again at 1.30pm for only about 45 minutes. I took him out in the pushchair later on and he had a cat nap.

Sounds daft but I do a little routine before he goes in to his cot where he waves 'night 'night to the horses out of the window and then says goodnight to the different animals on his curtains! I guess it's a way of preparing him for what's coming and he's not been making any fuss recently so it must help.

On the down side, I can see quite a few teeth that getting ready to make an entrance so I'm preparing for a few hellish nights.

Hi angel and crikey - there does seem to be a bit of a correlation between the blw and the useless sleep dpesn't there?? although even on days she eats loads she is still rubbish at night so maybe it just seems that way!
crikey I doo exactly the same routine saying goodnight to the animals on the curtains...do you have the ones from john lewis??!!
slightly less disastrous bedtime but I cheated on the pupd towards the end and held her till she fell asleep still took ages anyway and shes needed settling twice so far tonight...joys!

Glad to hear you had a better night, AD - I hope last night also shaped up well!

Hi pickles! We're doing a combo of BLW and purees - it would be interesting to know if there are studies relating the type of weaning to sleep. Our DD's sleep doesn't seem to have worsened particularly since we started offering solids - it was already pretty intermittent

Thanks for the article, crikey. I had got myself this far by accepting that it's all very normal and perfectly okay to wake at night for the baby. I still believe that, but when it got to every 1-2 hours and she refused to stay asleep without being latched on (which kept me awake)...well, there's only so much sleep deprivation a person can handle! I can manage on about 5 hours total sleep, but when it gets much below that, I'm an emotional mess.

As it is, I had already decided that 2 overnight nursings would be an acceptable goal, and we seem to have reached that now.

Last night DD left me gobsmacked by unlatching herself after her pre-bedtime feed, allowing me to put her down without protest and then did little more than murmur a couple of times and fidget a bit before she fell asleep - within ten mins. Hoorah!

I think she woke around midnight, but fell back to sleep pretty quickly on her own. She then woke at around 01.30 and after 45mins of her fidgeting and complaining, I gave in and fed her. She unlatched herself and went straight back to sleep after I put her down.

She then woke again at about 05.00. Again, I left her for a while to see if she'd resettle, but it became clear that wasn't going to happen. So once again I fed her and once more she unlatched herself and let me put her down. Unfortunately, I think she tried to get back to sleep for a while, then gave up. I took her out the room to try and rock her, but she wasn't having any of it. In the end, DH got her up and changed her. Then I took over so he could go back to sleep. By 07.40 she was asleep in her pram (after a feed), which is where she is now.

SO...

On balance, a definite overall improvement. Bigger stretches between wake-ups and an easy bed-time.

The bummer is the early rising, of course.

I guess I could try a slightly later bed-time, although I suspect that may not make much difference.

The other thing is to accept 2 overnight feeds for the time being and offer the second one more quickly in the hope she will then be able to settle back down to sleep for a bit longer. After all, yesterday's 06.15 wake-up was preferable to today's 05.00!!

My feeling is now she's self-settling at bed-time and doing so overnight, it may well be a waiting game as she gets better at getting herself back to sleep without my help and requires less overnight feeding.

When I look back on the progress we've made in less than a week, it's pretty astounding. Fingers crossed it continues.

I hope you don't mind me going into such detail in my posts, but it's helpful to have a bit of a sleeplog going to track progress

Also, personally, I love reading about other people's improvements, they offer hope to the rest of us! And the tales of woe remind me we're sharing the same boat...

Hi pickles. Glad to hear of some improvement from everyone as I only have a tale of woe I'm afraid.

Little Pdog is not well so have had 2 awful nights and have just been trying to get her to sleep/nap by any means possible. We are both shattered and hoping for a better day and night so we can finally meet our friends for our holiday .

Oh, PDog

I hope your LO gets well soon and you manage to gain a few more Zs.....

Absolutely agree IC - there is only so much sleep deprivation one can take. Months and months of sleepless nights started to affect me too. I think that my DS has had 10 months of unrestricted access to the boob and been pretty much 'responded' to night and day, it's his turn to give me a bit of a break.

Sounds like you are starting to make progress which is encouraging. We had a 5.30am start this morning which was hard. back to school tomorrow will mean that we all need to be up and about by 7am.

Poor you Pdog and your LO - hope you get your hols soon.

Hello just sticking my head in as saw my name mentioned - will have a proper read of the thread later!
I've been on holiday for two weeks and have missed the sleep threads. Had a terrible first week as DS was very ill so sleep went doolally. However he's much better now thank goodness.

re. talking to the curtains pickles. Not sure where they are from but they are quite 'retro' as they were handed down from one of my Mum's friends.

Not too bad last night.

No fuss at bedtime again, I heard DD wake up then self settle after her first sleep cycle 45 mins later, then nothing until 00.45, when I fed her after about 5 mins of complaining to see if she'd settle. Straight back off, then nothing again until 04.30. Fed her again, needed to pick her up and re-suckle briefly before she went down again. Next wake-up was 05.45, same routine as above, but went straight down. Awake for the day at 06.45.

Although it was 3 wake-ups and feeds (one over my target), we all got more sleep this way.

But the tough stuff is getting her back down in the early morning - without feeding it takes AGES or she gets hysterical.

Anyone got any advice?

sorry to hear about your DS having been ill.

PDog too - that's miserable. :(

IC, that is fab,fab, fab. I think early mornings are harder as there's less of a biological urge to sleep because they're less tired. If she wakes early and wants to be up for the day, my first guess would be overtiredness from insufficient daytime sleep (even if she doesn't seem particularly tired during the day). But if she goes off again easily with a feed, it may not be that. When DS wakes at that kind of time it's very rare he'll go off again within 1.5 hours, so no real experience here, I'm afraid.

I think it's really helpful having the details as it gives you ideas of what to try.

Up & down here. DS's upset stomach is getting better, although wind is still messing a bit with feeding to sleep for some naps. Judging by the tooth grinding, they're still bothering him.

Yesterday he slept without any resettling for 2.5 hours at lunchtime! I was stunned and thought I might get an extra good night as a result.

He did resettle with just a pat after 45 mins and stayed asleep for the next cycle or two, but I did PUPD at 11.30, 12.00 and 1.00 before realising he was hungry. He woke again at 4.45 and was up for 1.5 hours again despite feeding . He's done that for 5 nights out of the last 7 which is not so fun.

Does anyone know (and this might be a question for Iggly) about the Baby Whisperer's Wake To Sleep idea? I know it's intended for babies who wake at the same time every night. But I presume this is for babies who go to sleep at the same time each night? DS's bedtimes have been slightly variable of late, and I wonder whether he's now waking out of habit at the same point in his cycles, but it's not happening at the same clock time each night due to a variable bedtime. Any thoughts?

I think it's probably too early to be connected to the 9 month regression - he's just turned 8 months and was born 2 weeks early so will hit the regression late.

On the BLW / sleep thing I really don't think there's necessarily a connection. DS has been eating loads since the second day of BLW. He really packs it away - we've had several meals where he's eaten literally half the size portion that DH has eaten! Doesn't seem to make the slightest bit of difference to his sleep though.

Good morning all

Can I join you please? I am at the end of my rope today and I need to get it off my chest!!

DD is almost 6mo and her sleep is going from bad to worse. She is waking up every 2-3 hours from bedtime when we used to get one long stretch of anything from 5 - 8 hours before she needed feeding... We got through the 4 month sleep regression thing (or so I thought ) and she did some long stretches again for about a week, but as I say, now it's just getting worse. Last night she was in bed at 7.30/8pm and woke at 10.30, 12.30, 2.30, 6.20 and 8am when we got up.

Her naps, ironically, have been getting much better and although she only has 2 a day (have given up trying for 3) she sleeps for about an hour for one nap and up to 2 hours for the other (sometimes the longer one in the morning, sometimes longer after lunch). Have been roughly following the 2-3-4 pattern which seems to work for her. SHe goes down relatively easily now too, I give her a small feed, but not to sleep, then I lay her down and she grumbles a bit before dropping off. Sometimes I have to pat/shush.

She is still sleeping in a moses basket next to my side of the bed, however I am now wondering whether she might sleep better in her own room in her cot...has anyone found this has helped? I am also going to start introducing some FF during the day. I want to continue BF at night and first thing, but need to do this in prep for going back to work and also because feeding anywhere other than in my bedroom, she is just too distracted and doesn't feed properly - could she be making up for the lack of milk in the night?? I am gettting stressed out by feeding her in public because of this so I feel this will help both of us...and hopefully might help her sleep.

I just really, really need a good night's sleep (even just one for now!!) and I wish I could understand where all these wakings have come from. I end up feeding her to get her back off for most of these, but now I'm not sure if it's becoming a habit rather than a need? We have tried DH going to her, but she just screams for me/boob, even though she cannot be hungry for all of these wakings. She is teething but even Nurofen didn't help to keep her asleep last night.

Is this just a developmental thing that will pass? please tell me there is light at the end of the tunnel

Great stuff with the long nap, AD! I'm struggling to get DD to sleep longer than 30 mins at the mo (and she needs to be fed off and given a dummy to settle every time). Resettling your DS with little intervention after that first cycle after bedtime sounds like progress, too.
We'll gloss over the rest of the night

I'm not convinced how much effect naps have on DD's nighttime sleep. I often expect a horrendous night after naps have been a bit messed up and short, but often the night is no worse than it ever has been. Likewise, good naps in the day don't tend to add up to a better night.
Mind you, I'm very happy for DD to have decent, long naps because it keeps her sweet and gives me some me-time.

Oh, curly, sounds tough...

Distraction during daytime feeds can certainly be a factor with overnight "tanking up". Does she take much when you feed her at night, or is it a case of a few quick sucks then she's back down? If the latter, it's probably comfort she's after and help to resettle (rather like my own DD during the early morning feeds, I suspect).

There IS a developmental spurt at 26 weeks, which may be the culprit in her recent wakings.

I know some people find the baby sleeps better when moved away from the parents, so it might be worth a try. Having said that, if she continues to keep waking up loads, it'll be a bummer for you to have to keep mooching off to a different room to resettle her. Have you tried putting her down for naps in her own room in the cot? See how she gets on with that before you go the whole hog, I would suggest.

A few thoughts from me, for what they're worth! AD or Iggly will probably have further suggestions.

Good luck!

Thanks for the well wishes everyone. DD seems to be a little better today - she certainly slept better last night, although is very overtired still.

We are planning to get ready today and head off on our hols tomorrow if she has another better night tonight.

Welcome curly. I know how you feel. My guess would be developmental and teeth. We had some horrendous nights with my DD when her first teeth started coming through. Once they actually got to the point of cutting through she was fine - it was all the movement before that seemed to cause her quite a lot of distress.

IC , sounds like things are going well for you. I also have the same problem of getting her back to sleep if she wakes early. Sometimes feeding works, sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't, I bring her into bed with us and use AngelDog's technique of ignoring her until it is our 'get up' time.

AngelDog great news on the nap front, not so much on the night sleep though - blooming teeth.

Hi all,
I thought I'd join in - I recognise several of you from the 3-4 month sleep thread!

I'm dithering about doing some night time sleep training with my 8mo DS - just something gentle - but seem to always have an excuse reason why not. I was going to start a couple of weeks ago, had NCSS lined up and everything, then DS had a couple of bad colds in a row. Now that's cleared, his bottom teeth are coming through. We're off on hols to Oz in less than a month, then within a week of getting back he starts nursery and I go back to work (hideous planning I know, but it made sense for some reason when we booked it!). Tell me it's worth doing something now and then revisiting in a couple of months' time? I'm tempted to just leave it and keep feeding at night, but worry that another couple of months will make it worse when I eventually come to break the habit!

He naps OK during the day, and can self-settle for those (for which blessing I am mightily grateful), but is still waking at least once between 7-10pm and 2-3 times between 11pm-7am. During the evening we can 9 times out of 10 settle him back with a PU/Cuddle/PD approach - takes a few goes, but usually back asleep within 20 mins. Last night I foolishly tried this at night (as he woke up at half-midnight) - and gave up after half an hour of howling at me and fed him.

I do find that (teething and colds aside) his nighttime sleep is better if the daytime naps have worked well - so for those of you working on naps, it's really worth persisting.

Things I've found that work (sometimes!)

• introducing a cuddly toy/comfort object. He seems to know already that monkey means bedtime (only lives in cot)
• doing a cut down/mini bedtime routine before naps (particularly the long one). So, dim room, a quick nappy change, into grobag, cuddle/feed (if needed) and then in cot with monkey

Also think that the change from 3 naps to 2 has a lot to answer for - DS really could do with just 15 mins in the late afternoon, as otherwise he's massively overtired by bedtime and ends up feeding to sleep. But, he just won't have it any more unless he's out in the pram, and I'm not prepared to go for a walk at 4.45 every day when I want to be getting dinner ready and so on!

Will pop back later, but this lunchtime DS slept for...wait for it... 15 minutes.

Babies are so random. He did get a longer nap in the end but only when I got him to sleep for the third time and gave up trying to put him in his cot. Took an hour to get him to sleep this morning too. I've got nothing done yet today!

Contrary little blighters, eh AD?!

DD just went down wide awake at bedtime (she grinned at me when I nipped in at one point soon after) but didn't make a single complaint and fell asleep within 15 mins.

Sideways across her bed, with her legs across my side of the bed .

After such a great start, the night can only go downhill from here.

BTW, AD I got a Connecta Solarweave as an early birthday pressie from my mum - I like!!

PDog, I would happily have DD in our bed for a while first thing in the morning. Problem is, she doesn't tolerate being ignored and if I refuse to have her lying beside me and latched on (which I won't do now because that's the addiction I've only just successfully broken!!) she starts to protest very loudly.

Hope you finally get to have your holiday - and ENJOY it!!

hello all! babies are so random I completely agree! DD had really good naps today 1.5hr this am and an hour at lunch for absolutely no apparent reason..I did nothing different to usual..so bizarre. Bedtime still a disaster zone thought and I doubt it will improve her nighttime sleep but I did at least get something done today (well messed aroundon the internet anyway)

Just wondering if any of your lo's have been doing the sitting/standing up in the cot thing?
Tonight DD was actually going into her cot happily but then sitting/standing straight away messing about for a while and then getting agitated..I then went in, settled down again..and up she pops! this went on for aaages until she got a bit more grumpy and i did pupd which worked after about another half hour..total bedtime of 1hr40mins...argh!!

hope all yous lo's have been better for you this evening!
please someonme tell me the standing thing is just a phase?? prefereably a short one!!

how was everyone's night?

I agree picklesrule babies are so random and just when you think you have them sussed, they go and change the rules aain!

Pdog hope you have a good holiday!

How was your night IC ? was it all downhill after such a good start?

Well, DD went into her own room in her cot for the first time, she settled herself too for the first time ever and was asleep by 8.30pm.

The night wasn't too bad, she woke at 1am and again at 4am, although it took until 5.30 to settle her after that one, which was a bit of a bummer with her being in a seerate room! But the plus side is she is still asleep now at 8am, so I do think her being in a different room may have helped as usually me or DH disturb her (esp as he gets up early anyway. The problem for me though was that I just couldn't get back to sleep - don't you just hate it when the baby is asleep but you can't?!

Not sure if I should be feeding her at each of these wakings or not - could it be becoming a habit? But it takes so long otherwise and the crying/screaming just gets louder. I can't seem to get on with PUPD as she doesn't seem to calm down when I pick her up until I put her on my boob which I guess is not the point of it!!
I am hoping she will just start to wake less as I know she can do just one waking as she has done it before many times... Not sure if naps make a difference or not really, DD napped well yesterday, but still woke twice.

Let's just see what today brings...

The night DID go downhill at 10.. DD woke up and started protesting loudly.

I did a bit of Ssh/pat and gave her a cuddle, but it just made her worse. I wasn't going to feed her, so in the end, I just lay beside her until the intermittent crying and whimpering stopped and she got herself back to sleep.

A bit traumatic, though. I alternated between saying to myself "Calm and consistent, calm and consistent" and "If she sounds like she's going into meltdown, sod it, I'll feed her." She settled again after about an hour. I felt mean.

But after that the night got radically better. She resettled herself after waking up (maybe twice or three times in total?) and I fed her only once at 04.20, after which she went straight back to sleep. One of those wake-ups and quick self-settles was some time after that feed, which was excellent, given my worries about her settling again in the early morning.

She was up for the day at 07.40 and full of cheer and big smiles, so I felt a bit better about being tough mummy the night before.

Glad your night wasn't too bad overall, curly - especially given the move into her own room!

pickles, my DD isn't standing up yet, but I've seen loads of posts from mums saying their LOs are doing the same thing. All I can say is yes, it does pass once the novelty's worn off, but it's a PITA while they're enjoying practising!

Sounds like it enbded up being OK IC. Know what you mean about the ssh/pat it tends to wind my DS up even more.

Things went ok here - a couple fo wakings but managed to settle back down again. I do find myself sitting next to his cot wondering when I can make my move to escape back to the warmth of my own bed though. I made a break for it at one point and he started to cry for a bit but had stopped within a bout a minute.

Got back from the school run and he went down with no fuss for a nap at 9.20am and slept for a good 50 mins. Bliss!! I managed to make some soup and clear up the carnage in the house.

Afternoon nap was a bit trickier as he kept standing up in his cot. I went up a couple of times to put him down and then just left him to it. He went to sleep about 10 mins later face down in a heap!

So things are getting better- mind you he's 11 months next week so he'll be going 7-7 soon. (yeah right )

Haha crikey my dd is almost exactly the same age as your ds I think and no signs of 7-7 here either! Im pretty sure before I got pregnant I didn't realise people meant no sleep for YEARS after you have a baby not just the first few months!

How was today curly? Hope it was better! And IC definately sounds like it ended up ok..how were her naps today as a result?

DD was totally random again today..protested for ages about her morning nap and only down for half an hour then fell asleep in the car at lunchtime for about an hour and that was it...

has got to bed without a whimeper but only because I fed her to sleep which ive been really trying not to do (and actually she usually won't) but I'm so tired I just couldn't be arsed to do battle again tonight..
think that is probably totally dumb in the long run as everyone says consistency is key...oh well!