Stuck in a never ending sleep regression

[PDog]

I am beyond exhausted. DD is coming up to 8.5mo and this has been going on for 2 months.

It seems to alternate between horrendous nights or horrendous days with horrendous bedtimes. She just can't switch off - I can't take my eyes off her for a second because she is not happy unless she rolling/grabbing something/putting something in her mouth.

When she does sleep, I have to feed her to sleep but as soon as I try to get her in her cot she wakes up and starts rolling.

She has only had 30 mins sleep all day today and gets more and more hyper. It then takes between 1-3 hours to get her to bed and she will be up to 2-3 times and ready to go by 6am (despite still been shattered).

Anyone offer any advice?

Or anyone in the same boat who wants to moan share experiences.

Welcome to the Eye Bag Club CoonRapids.

I think sleep is something in their nature rather than anything you do or the way they are fed. I am desperating hoping sure DD will sleep through when she is ready and that it is a developmental thing.

I agree IC, it is much easier when you think there is a reason for all the awakenings, unlike this morning when DD decided it was play time at 2am and took over an hour to resettle .

Thanks for the reminder re clocks Curly. I dread to think how our LO's will react.

Martyr mum here too. Friends think I am mad when I talk about bringing DD into bed with us and that I am still feeding her to sleep at 10.5mo. There has much mention of "rods" and "backs".

Thanks PDog Yes, rods and backs mentioned here too! DS had 2 sleeps in the car today, the last one waking at 4.10pm so wonder what time he will go to bed tonight!

Welcome, CoonRapids!

I hate any mention of "rods" and "backs" - usually from the mouths of people who have no idea what it's like to live with a baby who's a poor sleeper. Some babies sleep well and some don't. Many go through phases of one or the other. I think there's only so much you can do about it as a parent. If it's the parent that determines how well a child sleeps, why is that parents with several children report that some are good sleepers and others aren't, despite no change in their own methods?

Sure, there are things we can do to encourage our babies to sleep better, but they don't always work (and that includes CC - which, even when it does work, will often have to be re-done after a bout of illness, teething, developmental spurt etc. etc.)

I reckon we just have to get through it as best we can, as so many millions of others have done.

Rant over!!

First nap this morning didn't happen. DD wouldn't settle in her cot (after not doing too badly in there over the last week) and eventually got a second wind, so wasn't tired any more. Could have been my fault for putting her in the wrong sleeping bag so she was a bit too hot, or I was maybe a teeny bit late at hitting the optimum tiredness window.
DH is going to take her out in the pram in a while and try and encourage a longer sleep (basically, rolling two of her naps into one) - it may or may not work, here's hoping.

Nights haven't been brilliant recently, but not dreadful either.

DD has taken to waking up only an hour or two after first going down yelling her head off. She mostly only needs a brief cuddle and resettle to go back off, but I've no idea what's causing it.

We're also getting at least one 1 hour or more resettle per night - I usually end up applying teething gel on that one, hoping that gum discomfort is at the root of it.

Otherwise, it's still around the 3 awakening mark, more or less, so could be worse. And I'm just about managing to get sufficient sleep to keep body and soul together, so we're okay.

Clocks. Yes, [hhmm].
I offered a false alarm on this one a few weeks back. I'm (theoretically) now trying to move bedtime later and getting up time later in preparation, but it doesn't always work because of messed up naps etc. (see above)

Anyway, we're okay at Casa IC - hope your various illnesses are all clear now and the under eye concealer is doing the job... [hsmile]

Hi - thanks, it's reassuring to think it's just that some babies are like this. Hope your DD managed a long nap in the end. DS went down for his nap ok at around 12.50 but then got woken up by DS1 shouting! We then all went out but he was obviously still tired and had a melt down in Tescos! DH had to sit in the car with him whilst I finished the shopping and was in a fowl mood after that. It's not great because it always ends up feeling like it's all my fault. Partly this is because DS2 was a surprise and DH has found it difficult to adjust. I don't think he's bonded well with DS2 at all, especially as he is now cast as being 'the most difficult baby'. It's a shame because he is actually very sociable and smiley alot of the time but it gets overshadowed by his sleep issues.

At least he went down for bed within 20 mins tonight. And we have some bunkbeds on order for the older 2 so can start to gently transition him to sleeping in the room next door rather than our bed.

I'm not even thinking about the clocks

Welcome, CR.

Someone on here posted about rods and backs. IIRC they said 'I have a rod. It's pink and it's sparkly. I love my rod' (or something along those lines).

No-one talks to me about rods and backs. I tell people that DS isn't a dreadful sleeper, although sleep not his strong point. If anyone presses me on the details I explain how disappointed I am that feeding to sleep doesn't often work in the day any more. That soon shows them where I stand on the issue.

I agree that it just depends on the individual baby as to how they sleep. Most parents with more than one say that their babies sleep differently.

We're plodding along without great excitement - 4 or 5 wakings per night, usually off to sleep pretty quickly with 2 or 3 feeds. That's quite a bit more than the 1 feed he was having, but he's definitely taking plenty of milk, not just comfort sucking.

I'm just going with the flow till after the next developmental spurt (which ought to be pretty soon by my calculations), when I'll have a go at helping him stay asleep a bit better.

How old are are your little ones? I'll be getting my rod and back response ready for our visit to the in-laws. They aren't into bf. Sil asked when I was giving up that nonsense last Christmas .

Yep, they are all different - DS1(6) had toilet problems, DD(nearly 4) has fussy eating but both sleep well!

I think DS2 has all 4 molars now and his sleep (once he is asleep) seems to be better. Touchwood not waking and screaming in the night. Still takes an age to settle him though. Last night it was 8pm and he was still not settling and dinner was ready so brought him back downstairs (v. bad I know). Then he ate some garlic bread and other snacks before going to sleep about 8.45!

Just wanted to post to say we had a fantastic day on Saturday. After quite a bad night on Friday, DD was shattered (as was I) but only managed a short nap on sat am.

BUT in the afternoon, she slept for 2.5 hours . She also had a good night with just one awakening, quick feed and then back to sleep til 7am .

Of course it has all been down hill since then but I am still on a high so can't complain too much.

We have been pushing back bedtime a little each night to prepare for the clocks going back but she is back to nursery tomorrow so have a feeling it all go to pot .

Hope you are all getting on OK.

PDog, glad that you've had one good day & night at least.

CR, my DS is 9.5 m.o.

I made a useful discovery today: don't let DS have a third nap if his lunchtime one is too short. I eventually got him to bed at 21.35 which is about an hour after I usually start getting him ready for bed. I'll know for next time, at least.

Either he will wake late tomorrow, in which case I'll act as if the clocks have changed already (ha! cunning!) or he'll be overtired and up at 5am. Any bets?

On the rods & backs thing, I take the Elizabeth Pantley view that something is only a problem if it causes you a problem. And IMO it's not a problem if the alternative is worse. So feeding to sleep is good here. The alternative to feeding/rocking DS to sleep is leaving him to scream, so feeding/rocking is fine by me and not a problem.

Actually, I was feeling frustrated the other day that rocking him to sleep for naps takes quite a long time when I could be doing something 'useful'. But then I realised that if he self-settled completely, both he and I would miss out on lots of cuddles. :( So I'm glad in a way he still needs my help to sleep.

Last couple of nights DD has been more settled, although still waking three times or so. I've switched to disposable nappies for night because I think the extra reinforcement was uncomfortable and the leaks are a PITA. Also, DD's latest tooth is through now, so that probably helps too.

She's started waking at about 22.30 or so and even after a feed, cries when put down, so I've been holding her and rocking gently, then putting her down. Last night I didn't feed her, just held her until she stopped crying (about 20mins) then put her down and she fell asleep. She self-settled when she woke a couple of hours later and the first feed was at 03.00. I've noticed, she self-settles better at least once if not fed-to-sleep on the second wake-up on previous nights too. Think I shall now do this if she wakes before midnight as a general rule and as a beginning of night-weaning.

Going the whole hog for every resettle would be tough because we are surrounded by neighbours (flat-dwellers), so after midnight I'm still inclined to feed her back to sleep for the time-being. Anything for a quiet life!!

Naps...I'm beginning to wonder if it's time to think of dropping one of them. DD seems to be getting tired at longer intervals BUT she still only does half an hour unless in the pram... So while she can go three hours without a sleep (later in the day), I'm fairly certain she'd have trouble managing much more than that.

Any thoughts, AD?

Sorry to hear your DH is having probs bonding with DS2, CR - that's a real shame. I'm sure the sleep will settle down eventually, let's hope your DH will sort out the bonding ASAP...
My DD's 9 months, btw - but born 4 weeks premature, so I still adjust for that.

Glad you had a better day, PD...!

AD, I really admire your attitude...of course, you're right to think about the cuddles etc. I tell myself the same thing when I'm struggling to unlatch DD.

Hmm, not sure about naps, IC - will think about it and get back to you when I feel less tired. Your not feeding earlier on sounds like a good plan.

I only realised the cuddles thing as I'd been reading around more attachment parenting stuff - and talking to my brother, who used CC (and still sometimes resorts to CIO) on my tension-increaser nephew. :(

The 'clocks' have officially changed here - DS obligingly didn't wake up early so everything has moved an hour later ready for the change. It's tricky remembering what should be happening when!

I even had a nap at lunchtime which is a bit - only the third since DS arrived (I can't normally sleep in the day) and I actually felt better for it. Shattered now though so off to bed for me.

Wishing you all a good night. :)

Hello all

I've been reading and watching your thread with interest - very impressed by the progress many of you have made, although I wonder if your title should be 'Babies are Random?'. Anyway...can I join?

After a couple of months of not bad sleep (not sleeping through or long naps or anything, but reasonably easy settling for naps and down to between 1-3 wakes a night (vg for us)), everything has gone tits up again. Especially with naps.

It has taken me over 45 mins to settle DS (7.5 months) for naps this week when it used to take 5-10. He was having 3 naps but the last has been impossible, or far too late for bedtime so I'm wondering if I should drop that and try and move to scheduled nap times - on the 9/1pm pattern? Only problem is he is a chronic catnapper and although I can sometimes resettle him at lunch, not sure I can manage it twice to get 2hours out of him.... However, its got to be better than the fights of the last few days...

Here we are together on another sleeplessness thread, hey?! Glad you've had a better stretch, even if things are getting iffy again. I sympathise on the naps front - as you can see upthread, I have similar probs.

Thanks for your (promised) thoughts, AD! Yesterday DD only slept for about 5 mins second nap after half an hour in the cot for the first one. She got 1hr45 in the pram later and slept well last night, only one wake-up before 05.40, so that wasn't bad. Think I'll just offer her a shortish sleepy feed for her second nap for a while then aim for a longer third one in the pram and see how that works...

In sleepless solidarity! [hsmile]

Hi all

We have been away for a few days, so I've been trying to catch up with what's been happening for you all.

Sounds like things have been quite good for you PDog the once a night wake up sounds like bliss!

IC I know what you mean about the nappy leaks ugh! DD has taken to sleeping on her front over the last week or so, and even disposables are tending to leak... Most mornings she is damp when I get her up, but I don't really want to resort to middle-of-the-night nappy changes or she won't re-settle.

AD good to see you are back on GMT already .

Our routine has gone out the window while we have been away and DD been having late naps and not gong to bed until about 10pm, so I am hoping the clock changes wont affect her too much. SHe has gone to bed fairly early this evening, but she is shattered from last night when althoug she slept well, we had to be up at 8 so she only really had about 9hrs sleep...

I too find that even tho DD is only 7.5 months, if she has a 3rd nap, then bedtime has to be really late. So it's a choice between grumpy baby when she has been up too long, or happy baby but no time in the evening for myself and DH as she goes to bed too late. At least she is fairly adaptable to one or the other, and it did work out OK while we were away...

She has been generally sleeping for 4-hourly stretches (even while we were away) which I don't find too bad. As it was 2 hourly not so long ago, then 3, I am hoping she will gradually eek it out to 5, 6 etc and then go through the night

Happy sleeps to all...

Hi all

I am fed up. DD is nearly 11mo and I am desperate for some consistency. It is not all bad but it certainly isn't all good, or even mostly good, either.

We have had some improvement - longer afternoon naps (finally) some days but nights have got worse (awake every 2 hours on Sunday).

Nursery days are not good. She is now having one 30 min (max) sleep and is absolutely shattered when we pick her up. She goes down really easily and then wakes 10-15 mins later screaming (sound familar Curly)? To be fair, once we get to about 11pm she tends to do a 3 hour stretch but the evenings are not good. Especially as I need to eat, clean up, wash, dry and straighten my hair and make my packed lunch ready for work the next day.

Yesterday she woke for the day at 5am, refused a morning nap and finally slept for 1.5 hours in the afternoon (with 3 resettles).

Last night wasn't too bad - midnight and 2am. The 2am wake up was a bit of a scream-a-thon so I gave her some Nurofen and she slept til 7am so maybe it is her teeth.

She has refused a nap this morning so I don't have high hopes for the day.

Sorry for the rant, DH is away which always makes everything harder. Hope the rest of you are having a better time.

Oh, Pdog, I can only send you sympathy and solidarity. And sleepy vibes to your gorgeous but recalcitrant DD.

GIVE YOUR POOR MUMMY A BREAK, LO!!!

Thanks for the sympathy IC and sorry for all the moaning.

DD obviously heard you as she slept from 11pm til 6am, then went back for another 2 hours . Luckily I was on a training coure today so not late for work.

Wotcha everyone.

PDog, sorry to hear about the general horribleness of things.

Having a really long sleep (e.g. through the night) after having had rubbish sleep can sometimes be a developmental thing - they get so tired with all the not sleeping, that they crash, before going into another pattern. I hope your DD wasn't just doing that, though!

Anyway, this thread's here for moaning, isn't it? My DH is away too, so I'll add my tuppenceworth.

'Tis a tale of woe (and bodily fluids) here. DS has a streaming cold and has rivers of snot which of course he hates me wiping. He now cries as soon as he sees the tissue in my hand. :( It's made his ezcema flare up badly and he has a post-viral rash too.

On top of that, he's working on his next tooth - his first molar (eek). So we have rivers of drool too, as well as stinky teething wee. Fortunately we do EC in the day so I only have to put up with the nappies at night.

I also think he's started working on the next developmental spurt (about time too - I was wondering when he'd get round to it). We've had shorter than usual lunchtime naps, and he has a new trick - he stays 'asleep' for 2 mins after I put him down, then gets up, pulls up to kneeling and laughs at me until I pick him up, when he starts crying. Repeat. And repeat. Sigh.

The last few evenings have been very unsettled, with maybe 5 wakings between his bedtime and mine. But on the plus side, he's only woken me twice for the last couple of nights. :)

Suchanamateur, welcome. I'd perhaps ditch the third nap and maybe give scheduled(ish) naps a go - try for 3 or 4 days and if you don't see any improvement, go back to what you were doing before. Then try again in a couple of weeks time, or when bedtime becomes seriously late.

If you do drop the third nap, you'll need bedtime to be seriously early though. You may well get an overtired baby by bedtime and early morning waking though - I think that's really common when they're dropping a nap as 2 naps isn't enough and 3 is too many.

With the catnap thing, I found going to a 9am / 1pm schedule really improved DS's short naps. If naps are only 30 mins, I'd try reducing the length of awake time.

And back to my favourite obsession subject, it could be developmental - the fussy period for the 37 week developmental spurt starts at around 33-34 weeks.

Actually, on the subject of developmental stuff (hey, when do I talk about anything else? ) there is a new copy of the Wonder Weeks out, which includes two more spurts at 64 and 75 weeks.

You can read an overview chapter of the book here (the Wonder Weeks bit starts at page 96).

IC, on the naps thing, if it were DS, I'd try a gradual withdrawal on getting to sleep not in the pram. So move pram till almost asleep. Stop. DD wakes. Move till almost asleep. Stop. And so on - repeat at sleep cycle change. You might be able to get to the point where she'll sleep for longer without the pram moving.

However, I think gradual withdrawal particularly suits tension increasers, so I don't know if it'd work for your DD - I could be wrong: I don't have any experience of tension releasers!

What I would be inclined to do is to try to get a longer nap out of her at lunchtime rather than at the third nap if you can. I find that if DS has a longer nap first, his second nap will be a bit later but is shorter and not enough to get through till bedtime.

Thanks AngelDog. Sorry you are having a tough time too. We have rivers of snot here too; poor DD's nose is red raw and my clothes are covered in it. She has been blowing snot bubbles all week.

Think it is a combination of teeth and developmental as last night was hideous. Took an hour to get her down and she woke up twice before 10pm. I fed her at 10pm but she woke up when I tried to put her down and then went for a full on 2 hour scream-a-thon .

I crawled into bed exhausted at 12.15am only to be woken at 4am. Took half an hour to get her back to sleep and then another half hour to get me back to sleep. I was expecting her to sleep later than usual but she was up at 6am .

She did sleep for an hour today at nursery and I haven't heard a peep out of her all night.

Must order that book. I am overjoyed that there are more development spurts to come .

Off to bed for me I think - or not as DD is awake.

Evening all

Hi Angeldog, was wondering where you were! Sorry to hear about all the snot etc. Doesn't sound too nice!!

PDog, was going to say yippee on the 11-6 sleep...and then I saw your last thread! Sorry it went to pot again - lets hope tonight is better.

Things have been stragely quite good in the Curly camp...

Meant to say, thanks for the info on the fussy periods AD (even tho I have the Wonder Weeks book... DD is 33 weeks this week, so it looks like I have a fun few weeks ahead

Sorry to hear about the colds, PDog and ADog....ugh. DH has spent the last two weeks coughing because of a chest infection and now has a cold. Poor old DH. I'm hoping he won't pass it on to me and/or DD.

Thanks for the thoughts on the naps, ADog! The cot naps were getting shorter and shorter (it was always the first of naps, after about two hours awake) to the extent that I was starting to ask myself if half an hour plus of trying to put her down to sleep for a fifteen minute sleep return was really worth it...

Joggling the pram will get DD off to sleep after a while, but once it's still, she'll wake up after 30mins max. And joggling when she's about to stir doesn't usually achieve more than a minute or two more's sleep either. That said, I haven't tried it for a while - I almost certainly will the next time we have bad weather... Thanks for the advice

Anyway, DD's sleep patterns the last couple of days have involved a 1st wake up sometime between 00.30 and 02.00, then another around 04.30/05.30 - the latter being a longer resettle (up to an hour) then she's slept until 08.00

It's basically put paid to the first nap as the only way the nap maths will work after that lie-in is with two longer ones. So we're pram-trundling in an effort to ensure she gets a reasonable amount of sleep. Around 2 hours of daysleep per day seems to be enough (an hour less than recommended for this age, but there we go...she sometimes gets more).

I suppose I should wake her consistently at 07.00 every day, but I can't bring myself to do that - especially if I'm enjoying the extra hour's sleep myself!!

Anyway, it's not too bad a pattern, so I'm happy to live with it for now. Chances are it'll be all different tonight, anyway. We're supposedly bang in the middle of the 9moSR now, but oddly DD's sleep seems to be getting better in some ways

Good to hear of better sleep for your LO, curly - I'd forgotten about fireworks - that's one less thing to worry about as I live in Spain, anyway! I hope they won't be too disruptive.

OY, APup and PPup!!! GO TO SLEEP AND LET YOUR POOR MUMMIES GET SOME PROPER REST!!

(well, you never know...)

Thanks, curly & IC.

After dosing DS with Calpol at bedtime, he slept past the 45 min mark which hasn't happened for AGES. I thought it was ominous. But then he woke again lots in the evening, and was awake and just playing from 11pm to 12.30. But then - he stayed asleep from 12.30 till 7am!! 6 hours' uninterrupted sleep for me.

He's not been happy today though - short nap, even more snot (didn't think it was possible but it was) and drool. I've more or less given up wiping his nose as he cried for over an hour without stopping after too much of it. :( He's off both food and milk which isn't surprising, but is cheerful for DH.

IC, from all that you've said, I reckon your DD's within the normal range for sleep. And of course she'll have less sleep per day if she's had more at night. :)

Hope your DH gets better soon.

PDog, your night sounded truly hideous. I know what you mean about snot bubbles - I'd never seen that before! Hope your DD is better soon.